:haha: :sour:Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
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:haha: :sour:Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/teache...155305823.html More insanity at public schools. It seems insane idiots are overrepresented in that profession.
Prison changes you manQuote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Yeah, because when your boss ridicules you, that's instant headlines, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Right?
Yeah. Maybe it could have something to do with some things appearing in the newspapers and other things don't, but that's probably just me. I'm sure that Loki would never try to make anecdotes into a broad, general rule, right?
Right?
Actually, children have virtually no rights in the US, and this kind of behavior rarely gets reported in the press. The very fact that schools can do virtually anything to students without being punished is itself evidence that there's something fundamentally wrong with many school administrators and teachers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro
While it rarely gets reported, when it does get reported it's a big deal. That's a more important difference than the one Khen mentions.
And my point is that behavior of this nature (but slightly less abhorrent) is the norm in many if not most schools in this country. Not that all teachers/admins engage in it, but the ones who do face virtually no punishment. Think Catholic Church before the current wave of scandals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
Except you have no evidence of this since you already admitted such behavior goes unreported. And you're using this gut opinion to claim that since schools go unpunished for these unreported violations, that there is something fundamentally wrong with many of our teachers. :bulb:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Have you ever been in a school where the admins didn't abuse their authority? I've yet to see one, though I suppose such mythical beasts do exist somewhere.
Mine seemed okay :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Loki
You were high manQuote:
Originally Posted by Flixy
Well it wás high school.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
And to how many schools have you been to make such a claim? I mean, I have been to comparably quite a lot of schools (20+) due to my course of studies - but I still wouldn't want to make such a broad statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
And again, just because your boss is an asshole, it doesn't mean that the rest of the staff are assholes as well. How on earth do you do statistics? Because I'm astounded that you harp on us when we get something wrong in that field - and you yourself make such spectacular and basic errors.
That's something I sometimes see with my pupils as well - the disconnect between the topic of lessons and reality. Pupils sometimes live in two worlds - the world of Physics Lessons and the "real world" where both don't have any intersections.
I'm making my statement more on the constant reports of long-term school abuses than on my personal experience. We only hear these stories in extreme cases, and yet we still hear them far too often. There is a perception in schools that children have no rights, and schools can do whatever the heck they as long as parents don't complain. Whether it means severely restricting free speech, putting tracking software on children's computer, not allowing cell-phones, not allowing them a choice of food, or punishing people for retaliating in a fight, they think it's permissible behavior.
It's pretty sucky, although perhaps just an extension of the views we have on parents' rights vis a vis their children.
The difference being that a school is a government-run institution.
We can knock schools, sue them, take kids away from them, suspend teachers, etc etc etc... and, when we do, there's a fair chance such measures will be seen as legitimate. Schools may suck but a child may in theory have a better shot in/against a school than in his home and against his parents.
Why is it worse for a school to abuse a child than for a parent to do the same? Simply because the school is in some way "government-run"? I agree with you that there may be a perception in many American schools that kids have no rights but I don't believe for a second that the school context is unique in this respect. It's just a reflection of how kids are treated by society as a whole. Kids are generally supposed to be at the mercy of the various adults in whose charge they've been placed. If the issue is about the protection of kids' rights--rather than about parental privilege--then it shouldn't matter whether the violators are a few teachers/administrators or many many more parents.
My impression is that this discussion isn't about kids' rights in the absolute sense so much as it is about 1. opposing schools and 2. giving parental privilege a special status.
Do you not see a difference between a parent shouting at his child and someone else doing it? Or a parent forcing their child to do some chore and someone else doing the same?
What exactly is this "far too often"? I'm astounded that a person who's used to deal with statistics is throwing such weak arguments around. Not giving any numbers, relying on touchy-feely arguments and the overwhelming "Think of the children!" smackdown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
If you're actually willing to go down this road, and furthermore, on the basis of your own slant of arguments, I dare say that it's more of a problem of your society as a whole - and not so much exclusively a problem of schools.
Prime exhibit A: The TSA.
If it's at the level of abuse, then I am not inclined to rate one higher than the other wrt kids' rights. I do think the consequences should be different, if for no other reason than that kids' right to have their real parents may be important to protect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Why do we want to fire teachers for doing something that we wouldn't want to "fire" a parent for doing?
Is it ok for a parent to be in the shower with their naked 8-year-old child? Is it ok for a teacher to do the same?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
Let's try to get a clearer picture. In what situations would a teacher end up in the shower with someone else's naked 8-year-old child within the parameters of the teacher role? What circumstances are we talking about? To be clear, I'm guessing it's not okay, but we're talking about why it's not okay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Never mind that the average 8-y-o kid can shower on their own and the average parent of an 8-y-o kid can do his parenting without having to be in the shower with their kid.
You're all over the place here Loki. Are we talking about teachers or admins, your experiences, the news, or nationwide? Do you understand how many public schools exist compared to the handful of examples you've provided so far?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
As a student and a shadow, yes. I can't recall a single school that had an admin that abused his position. I remember a few that were firm and unyielding on the rules that were his job to enforce. I remember students who would constantly push the line, rebel, or simply not understand what their rights were. But I can't recall an admin who crossed the line.
Several examples you've cited are very small or specific, examples that the government as a whole is unequally unsure of and currently involved in with the courts. Especially surrounding tracking.
I'm curious if you've ever been to a school that outright banned cellphones. I've never seen one. I've seen schools that don't allow their use during school hours, like many businesses do in similiar scenarios, but never one that outright bans them. Even down to the elementary level.
All my schools also had several options for lunch, from 5 drink choices all the way up to dominos and vending machines.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/us...udents.html?hp
Students, cattle, what's the difference.
Don't really see a big issue with this. Electronic monitoring while on the campus makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Would you say the same about electronic monitoring in the workplace? Wouldn't want workers to be loafing.
County employees here already use RFID name tags. Makes going between places a snap now. I can see its use in school for lunch purchases and to make it easier to keep a record of where children are compared to where they are supposed to be and what they tell their parents.
Yeah, that's a big Ten Four, big buddy! Loki went from cafeteria food fights caught on camera, to monitoring students like cattle. All in the name of denouncing Public Education, teachers, administration. With a comment about workers loafing, for good measure. Way to go there, Professor. WTF.
The irony of you attacking someone else for moving between different arguments. Not really surprised by yet another condescending attack by you. I suppose it's preferable to attacking me for being a Jew, like you did last time.
Another Loki WTF.