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The main news of the Dutch public broadcaster tentatively confirms that there is an agreement between the negotiators. A commentator said that the details aren't known yet but that we shouldn't expect to hear too much about those untill after we know the UK still has a government after their cabinet convenes to decide on the text.
Enjoying the hot-takes on the agreement right now, from people who have not read it.
Too many commentators are glossing over the element of ratification. Without knowing what's in the agreement you can't tell if a vote in the Council and a vote in the EP are enough for ratification on the EU side. If the conclusion would have to be that we're entering into a new customs union with the UK thay may very well need full ratification by all EU27 members.
Pfft, they don't need to read it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
Theresa talking and the outcome is; the cabinet agrees with the proposed deal.
What's interesting is that the DUP seems to have been thrown under the bus. (Or in Randspeak; Theresa is throwing half of the NI people under the bus).
Publish the agreement, you chodes.
This is like listening to a bunch of people argue heatedly over a film you haven't seen.
According to the tweets I've seen, the EU has indeed taken back control. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
https://twitter.com/Raphael_Hogarth/...96738480795653
https://twitter.com/Raphael_Hogarth/...02393971212288
It is available online. Not much fun reading though. The gist of the agreement is that there is going to be a 'transition period' during which nothing much changes and the UK has to ask for permission for 'independent steps'. The part on the citizen's rights is a sharp slap on the wrist for the British Home Office. Several references to the need for transparent, easy, cheap and user friendly procedures. Also no more hostaging of passports for the duration of procedures.
Citizens using their Union rights untill the end of the transition period will keep those rights, unless they decide to move their residence outside of the UK/EU and stay away for more than 5 years. That also means the ECJ will have jurisdiction pretty much till the last of them has died.
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I feel ya, Brussels
Awesome.
So ... nothing happens for the next 827 years of 'transition'.
Britain continues to benefit from all it's continued close ties with the EU during 'the transition'.
827 years later the silly, whimsical notion of separate 'nation states' is but a mere twinkle of nostalgia as the global village we now live in continues to prosper, with ridiculous ideas like 'border agreements', 'nationalism' and 'trade deals' mocked for all their bucolic and small-minded backwardness.
Actually, the NI protocol is kind of smart. At least if I read it correctly. It seems to imply that a one-way open border in the Irish sea is concievable. No checks from NI to GB, but nothing prohibits checks the other way round. Such an arrangement would both keep NI inside the common trade area of the UK and inside the Single Market, without forcing the entire UK into the same.
It's all playing out exactly as I've been saying it would. Two things have both been true all along: May is useless, a deal would be reached.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
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Oh fuck that. If things get terrible enough in a country you could have a foreseeable shot of leaving and starting anew. An entire world government put in place? Scary shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
Agreed. That's some dark and twisted dystopian horror fitting a George Orwell novel not some idealistic dream.
Raab resigns.
Is it time to panic now?
The cabinet's average IQ just improved slightly.
The value of the GBP dropped more than 1% after the Raab resignation. So I guess you're up for some turbulent times. I guess this may very wel mean a full blown crisis by the end of the day. On the upside; this may focus the minds of the no deal crazies a bit as the markets start to ready themselves for an actual no deal Brexit.
I bet you a shiny penny that it doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
And McVey and Braverman. Rumours Gove is next.Quote:
Originally Posted by gogobongopop
Too little, too late. This should have been done months ago. Patently obvious to everyone who thinks now that this is not a Leavers Brexit Deal anyway this is an atrocious hodgepodge cooked up by Remainer May and Robbins.
And Labour is against. Not that they have an alternative, but there you have it.
Of course they are, they don't give a shit about the EU they want to cause mischief and get a general election. Corbyn's a lifelong Eurosceptic leading a Europhile party so the only thing that unites them is opposing Tories.
With the DUP and Labour Not On Board the deals got zero chance of getting through Parliament as far as I can tell, even without any Tory rebels.
What a mess.
I mean, it's not a great piece of work (as far as I can tell, I haven't read it either -lol) but what seems to be getting lost in the fury is that a) the backstop is a backstop, not the final settlement for NI and b) The Customs Union That Dare Not Speak It's Name is for the transition period, and not the final settlement. That's what happens in a transition period, you.. transition.
So I find the ZOMG VASSALAGE AND BREAKING UP THE UK stuff a bit overblown.
A confederacy of dunces getting exactly what they ordered.
If the backstop was intended to never be used and not intended to form the basis of the longterm future relationship there would have been a lot less exertion trying to get the backstop agreed and a lot more on the longterm future relationship. Also this is worse than remaining in that we can exit the EU unilaterally (Article 50) just as we can leave NATO and the UN if we wanted to but could not exit this backstop. F### that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
That's not what Steely said, nor is it what anyone else (who isn't a reckless Etonian idiot) has said. The backstop has always been intended to be used, during the transition if nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
This is nonsensical. The negotiations are and have for this whole time been about the withdrawal agreement. The negotiations about the long-term future relationship have not started in earnest, nor would you have been able to start them, because the EU's position throughout has been that there can be no meaningful negotiations about that until key issues relating to Brexit have been resolved by the WA. It is appropriate to focus on the backstop because the Irish border problem is expected (for obvious reasons) to be a critical issue during the withdrawal and transition periods, and there may not be an agreement on the long-term future relationship for several years.Quote:
and not intended to form the basis of the longterm future relationship there would have been a lot less exertion trying to get the backstop agreed and a lot more on the longterm future relationship.
I'm sorry but this is not consistent with your previous statements re. parliament's authority to renege on promises made by previous parliaments, nor with your fanciful remarks about being to solve all the border issues with magic technology and ingenious legal tricks. Notwithstanding your prerogative of treachery and your formidable occult powers, there are other obvious ways out: change the GFA, or let NI go. You have the authority. You clearly don't care about Ireland or NI other than as props for your melodramatic performances. It'd be painful, but whoever said fulfilling your imperial destiny wasn't going to be painful for you?Quote:
Also this is worse than remaining in that we can exit the EU unilaterally (Article 50) just as we can leave NATO and the UN if we wanted to but could not exit this backstop.
15 years ago I was told by a reliable source that neither the UK or Irish governments actually want North Ireland. It's more trouble than it's worth, but nobody could admit it publicly. I expect that is still the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
For the UK it's becoming increasingly obvious that this is the case (see also numerous distasteful statements by prominent Brexiters in the aftermath of the December agreement), but they crave power over all else, and for that they need the DUP. Not sure about Ireland itself but I'm going to presume republicans still "want" NI (minus the unionists) while neutral parties and voters would not be opposed. You'd have to ask the Irish :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Unheard Of
My source was (and is still) Irish.
No part of this surprises me:
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It's almost worth letting him try.
I wouldn't offer Michael Gove a job picking up litter.
Not to spoil your party, but we are not going to do this from scratch.