"No, no, no, no, please!"

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/08...erman-student/

Perhaps you should have stayed off other people's property and not been a thug?

"Jurors also heard audio tapes of Pflager talking with police after the shooting. She told officers Dede had pleaded for his life, saying, "No, no, no, no, please!"

This audio tape should be played in every middle school across the country. This is what happens when you steal. You beg for your life and then you die getting shot up. This would be a lot more effective in curbing crime than any amount of "Head Start" initiatives.

Trespassing should be punishable by death? It's pretty clear that the main crime here is manslaughter (arguably even second degree murder).

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Originally Posted by Loki

Trespassing should be punishable by death? It's pretty clear that the main crime here is manslaughter (arguably even second degree murder).

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Not even talking about the legal ramifications - just about using good teaching methods to deter people from crimes.

It's not even entirely clear the dead person committed any crime.

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Originally Posted by Loki

It's not even entirely clear the dead person committed any crime.

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Oh please. At the very least he was trespassing and giving the context of the situation it was fairly obvious the guy was attempting the theft/robbery of belongings in the garage.

No no no no please

not another idiotic trolling lewk thread

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Oh please. At the very least he was trespassing and giving the context of the situation it was fairly obvious the guy was attempting the theft/robbery of belongings in the garage.

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Or he was just curious. Or confused. :|

From the alleged facts, this paints the guy a murderer:

- He knew that the youths in the neighbourhood engaged in "garage hopping"
- He stated that he'd shoot a youth
- He left the garage door open
- He shot three times and, after a relatively long pause, a fourth time.

Premeditation, intent, planning - the hallmarks of a murder.

Premeditated murder. Lewk's hypocrisy not very interesting, his fetish for killing is extremely disturbing and I fear for the future of his poor malleable child.

Well, one can always hope. I mean, as the history of Germany has shown, the children of Nazis don't have to wind up being Nazis themselves.

Would be pretty funny if he ended up pushing his child into a directly opposite mindset :)

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Not even talking about the legal ramifications - just about using good teaching methods to deter people from crimes.

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Clearly the crimes you want detered don't include unlawful killings.

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Originally Posted by Aimless

Premeditated murder. Lewk's hypocrisy not very interesting, his fetish for killing is extremely disturbing and I fear for the future of his poor malleable child.

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I agree; what is disturbing his obsession with violently killing other people. It's well without normal parameters. I can only hope he's trolling, because otherwise he's an danger to his environment.

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Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro

From the alleged facts, this paints the guy a murderer:

- He knew that the youths in the neighbourhood engaged in "garage hopping"
- He stated that he'd shoot a youth
- He left the garage door open
- He shot three times and, after a relatively long pause, a fourth time.

Premeditation, intent, planning - the hallmarks of a murder.

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I prefer to call it "active defense." Let's remember something quite important here - if the scum didn't try to steal he would still be alive. That's the message that I think we should be sending to the youth of the country. If you want to live - don't take other people's stuff.

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Originally Posted by Hazir

Clearly the crimes you want detered don't include unlawful killings.

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I would be very annoyed if we deterred people from defending their home and property. Hopefully the guy will get off - but you never know in today's justice system. Some BS about the defense not being able to point out the so called 'victim' invaded another man's castle with the intent to violate its sanctity through removal of belongings or worse.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

I prefer to call it "active defense." Let's remember something quite important here - if the scum didn't try to steal he would still be alive. That's the message that I think we should be sending to the youth of the country. If you want to live - don't take other people's stuff.

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What evidence do you have that he was trying to steal?

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Originally Posted by Loki

What evidence do you have that he was trying to steal?

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Prior thefts.
Entered into someone else's property.

I suppose he could have been planning on placing a bomb in the garage. Or maybe he was going to lie in wait for the home owner to come out so he could kill him. Or I know we can go with the most likely reasoning and that was to steal the belongings that had been left there to tempt the criminal.

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Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro

Would be pretty funny if he ended up pushing his child into a directly opposite mindset :)

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Or killing it.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Prior thefts.
Entered into someone else's property.

I suppose he could have been planning on placing a bomb in the garage. Or maybe he was going to lie in wait for the home owner to come out so he could kill him. Or I know we can go with the most likely reasoning and that was to steal the belongings that had been left there to tempt the criminal.

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The person who was shot was never charged with any other theft.

He could have been curious what the crazy guy in the neighborhood keeps in his garage...

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

I prefer to call it "active defense." Let's remember something quite important here - if the scum didn't try to steal he would still be alive. That's the message that I think we should be sending to the youth of the country. If you want to live - don't take other people's stuff.

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You're making too many assumptions. :donkey:

You're the type of person that "assumes" all things are nefarious. Paper or mail delivery, or trash removal people are just casing your house, waiting to rip you off. Neighborhood kids aren't "playing games", they're just trying to steal.

WTF?

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Originally Posted by Loki

The person who was shot was never charged with any other theft.

He could have been curious what the crazy guy in the neighborhood keeps in his garage...

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It's never been a requirement for a homeowner to divine the intentions of criminals illegally inside their property.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

It's never been a requirement for a homeowner to divine the intentions of criminals illegally inside their property.

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It has been a requirement to feel threatened before shooting, not to stage the entire situation just because one likes killing people. I'm amazed that you think the supposed trespessing is the worst crime that took place here.

I'm not sure where Lewk got this stupid notion from that the guy was a felon.

He was an exchange student with no prior record.

Yes, it was a stupid stunt. But if we're pushing for the death penalty for stupidity, then Lewk would've been executed a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by Loki

What evidence do you have that he was trying to steal?

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He was shot, wasn't he? QED. Well, unless the person meets the exclusionary criteria of being a middle-aged, middle-class white man. But that's not the case so he was definitely trying to steal.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Prior thefts.
Entered into someone else's property.

I suppose he could have been planning on placing a bomb in the garage. Or maybe he was going to lie in wait for the home owner to come out so he could kill him. Or I know we can go with the most likely reasoning and that was to steal the belongings that had been left there to tempt the criminal.

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Just out of curiosity, would you believe it to be just if a shop keeper to throttled your child to death if he/she was found to have pocketed a candy-bar? What if your kid was killed for chasing his ball, or the family pet into this home owner's garage? Should the audio of the last breaths of your dying child be played in schools across the country?

You do far more harm to your arguments than good.

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Originally Posted by Loki

It has been a requirement to feel threatened before shooting, not to stage the entire situation just because one likes killing people. I'm amazed that you think the supposed trespessing is the worst crime that took place here.

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I don't see why you like contorting the situation into something that it is not. Razor says that he wast here to steal. He died for it. This is why its important to be sent out a public service message. What is the harm? Do you want more petty thieves dead because they didn't have a healthy dose of fear of breaking and entering?

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Originally Posted by Enoch the Red

Just out of curiosity, would you believe it to be just if a shop keeper to throttled your child to death if he/she was found to have pocketed a candy-bar? What if your kid was killed for chasing his ball, or the family pet into this home owner's garage? Should the audio of the last breaths of your dying child be played in schools across the country?

You do far more harm to your arguments than good.

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17 year old is not a child.

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Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro

I'm not sure where Lewk got this stupid notion from that the guy was a felon.

He was an exchange student with no prior record.

Yes, it was a stupid stunt. But if we're pushing for the death penalty for stupidity, then Lewk would've been executed a long time ago.

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Do you want more exchange students dying? If you don't why wouldn't you want to create this public service message for school age children? The fewer 'petty thefts' that take place the fewer homeowners there will be shooting criminals. Seems like the best way to prevent this 'tragedy' is to make sure the lesson of "you steal you could die" is set at an early age.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

I don't see why you like contorting the situation into something that it is not. Razor says that he wast here to steal. He died for it. This is why its important to be sent out a public service message. What is the harm? Do you want more petty thieves dead because they didn't have a healthy dose of fear of breaking and entering?

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Do you want more psychos luring people to their death?

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

17 year old is not a child.

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If theft or trespassing is a crime worthy of death, why does the age of the perpetrator matter? You don't actually buy that liberal nonsense about children being special and in need of your progressive coddling, do you? Let's set a proper example for everyone here. If a child takes a candy bar we should be grateful to the store owner for throttling them and taking a would be felon off the street. If they trespass onto private property they are clearly scoping the place out for future criminal behavior. Thank God they were stopped before they were able to escalate to something truly horrifying.

And the best part Lewk? Think about the terror it would instill in the hearts of children the world over. It would do a heck of a lot more to curb crime than your liberal teenager killings.

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Originally Posted by Enoch the Red

If theft or trespassing is a crime worthy of death, why does the age of the perpetrator matter? You don't actually buy that liberal nonsense about children being special and in need of your progressive coddling, do you? Let's set a proper example for everyone here. If a child takes a candy bar we should be grateful to the store owner for throttling them and taking a would be felon off the street. If they trespass onto private property they are clearly scoping the place out for future criminal behavior. Thank God they were stopped before they were able to escalate to something truly horrifying.

And the best part Lewk? Think about the terror it would instill in the hearts of children the world over. It would do a heck of a lot more to curb crime than your liberal teenager killings.

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You're still being too lenient. That GOP Congress-critter from the last election cycle had it right. Parents should have the right to kill their children for being disobedient. Spare the rod and spoil the child after all. That would work. That would instill sufficient fear wouldn't it Lewk?