South Korean ship sinks in disputed area, NK torpedo attack suspected.

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A South Korean navy ship with about 100 personnel on board has sunk off the west coast near North Korea.

The exact cause of the sinking was unclear, but an explosion was reported in the rear of the ship.

There was speculation it could have been from a torpedo from the North. The involvement of North Korea has not been confirmed by officials.

More than 50 of the sailors were rescued from near Baengnyeong island by several navy and coastguard vessels.

South Korean President Lee Myung-bak, who has convened an emergency meeting of security officials, had ordered the military to focus on rescuing the sailors, Yonhap news agency reported.

The police force was put on heightened alert in the capital, Seoul.

The South Korean ministry of defence has not confirmed the reports of North Korean involvement.

There were reports that another South Korean ship had fired shots toward an unidentified ship in the North following the alleged torpedo attack.

One report, quoting the joint chiefs of staff, said the target turned out to be a flock of birds.

The apparent clash comes at a time of tension between the two Koreas. International talks aimed at ending the communist nation's nuclear ambitions have been stalled for months.

Economic ties between the neighbours have also faltered, with continuing rows over both cross-border tourism and a joint economic zone at Kaesong.

The disputed sea boundary itself has seen numerous incidents, most recently in January and February.

In January, North Korea fired artillery into the sea near the disputed maritime border, as part of a "military drill". South Korea returned fire, but no injuries were reported.

The following month, North Korea declared four areas near the sea border to be naval firing zones, according to the South Korean military, and deployed multiple rocket launchers close to the frontier.

Deadly naval clashes happened in 1999 and in 2002 and the latest in November 2009 when a fire-fight left a North Korean patrol boat in flames and one person dead.

The South Korean vessel alleged that the North Korean vessel had crossed the disputed sea border - a charge North Korea denied.

South Korea recognises the Northern Limit Line, drawn unilaterally by the US-led United Nations Command to demarcate the sea border at the end of the 1950-53 Korean War. The line has never been accepted by North Korea.

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/8589507.stm

The ship in question is apparently the Cheonan, a 1350 ton corvette. There are reports that other South Korean ships chased of North Korean ships after exchanges of gun fire. This is going to get pretty dangerous: the loss of an entire ship is a big deal, and SK may feel compelled to respond in some way.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/8589507.stm

The ship in question is apparently the Cheonan, a 1350 ton corvette. There are reports that other South Korean ships chased of North Korean ships after exchanges of gun fire. This is going to get pretty dangerous: the loss of an entire ship is a big deal, and SK may feel compelled to respond in some way.

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Not going to really comment on this until I know more, so until then I'm just picturing Kim Jong Il in my head turning to his son and saying "Before you can rule, you must first learn the art of acting batshit insane. Today's lesson: Torpedoing a South Korean ship."

Wouldn't another war be interesting and timely? :|

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Wouldn't another war be interesting and timely? :|

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Been a while.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Wouldn't another war be interesting and timely? :|

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With a nuclear power, too. Scary isn't a bad adjective for this one

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Originally Posted by Nessus

With a nuclear power, too. Scary isn't a bad adjective for this one

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Their missiles would more than likely nuke themselves on the launch pad.

Especially since all their nukes can be deactivated via a secret jamming mechanism infused in their originally-Pakistani (?) designs by POTUS. /movie

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Originally Posted by agamemnus

Their missiles would more than likely nuke themselves on the launch pad.

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Maybe, but that's still a gamble with Seoul as the stake. That's a lot of corpses.

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Originally Posted by Nessus

Maybe, but that's still a gamble with Seoul as the stake. That's a lot of corpses.

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I'm pretty certain that if NK were to nuke Seoul with their smaller-than-fat-man's-yield nuclear weapon, China would throw a fit. While I believe Kim to be insane, I don't quite think he's insane enough to piss off China, the United States, and the rest of the world, all at the same time...

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Originally Posted by agamemnus

Been a while.

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I meant another within the context of the two the US is already fighting.

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Originally Posted by Nessus

With a nuclear power, too. Scary isn't a bad adjective for this one

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Just what we need as an impetus to get tough on non-proliferation.

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Originally Posted by agamemnus

Their missiles would more than likely nuke themselves on the launch pad.

Especially since all their nukes can be deactivated via a secret jamming mechanism infused in their originally-Pakistani (?) designs by POTUS. /movie

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Neither one of their test bombs exploded particularly well, as I recall. Hard to say what would happen... Probably they'd nuke Tokyo, or some more convenient Japanese city, before they nuked Seoul, though (wouldn't Nagasaki or Hiroshima be ironic?). They'd use artillery to completely fuck up Seoul, but they don't hate South Koreans like they hate Japanese.

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Originally Posted by Illusions

I'm pretty certain that if NK were to nuke Seoul with their smaller-than-fat-man's-yield nuclear weapon, China would throw a fit. While I believe Kim to be insane, I don't quite think he's insane enough to piss off China, the United States, and the rest of the world, all at the same time...

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Oh, I agree with you totally. I think the North Korean leadership has no interest in suicide. Using a nuke on any neighbor would be tantamount to that. And in any case I'd be very surprised if they've managed to fit a working nuke on a missle.

I doubt NK has a reliable delivery system for their nukes. Their artillery pretargeted at Seoul is the bigger threat.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

I doubt NK has a reliable delivery system for their nukes. Their artillery pretargeted at Seoul is the bigger threat.

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About that.. I wonder if the US intelligence service knows more about both NK's nuclear capability and artillery capability, or lack thereof, than they're letting on.

South Korea doesn't really want a war. I imagine they aren't into retaliations like that, unless the North somehow fundamentally threatens the South strategically. The South has too much going for it to wage a war over a sunken ship. Similarly, the North has too little going for it to really stomach that kind of thing.

South Korea is now downplaying the idea that the North was involved. Playing for time while they decide how to react, or was it really an accident? Bare in mind that the back of the ship basically blew up.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnaught

South Korea doesn't really want a war. I imagine they aren't into retaliations like that, unless the North somehow fundamentally threatens the South strategically. The South has too much going for it to wage a war over a sunken ship. Similarly, the North has too little going for it to really stomach that kind of thing.

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I agree. They have nothing whatever to gain when you think about it. Even if the North completely disintegrated as a nation, what's that mean for the South? Now they're stuck with that mess....

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SEOUL, South Korea - North Korea may have deliberately directed an underwater mine toward the South Korean naval ship that exploded and sank three days ago near a disputed maritime border, the defense minister told lawmakers Monday.

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Source

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Report: Close-range blast sank S. Korean ship
By the CNN Wire Staff

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Report: Close-range explosion caused S. Korean ship to sink
Families of dead sailors on Sunday begin period of mourning
Ship went down in Yellow Sea; cause not yet known
Death toll now stands at 40; six sailors listed as missing

Seoul, South Korea (CNN) -- An explosion at close range, and not a direct hit, caused the 1,200-ton patrol ship Cheonan to sink last month, a team of South Korean military and civilian investigators has tentatively concluded.

The investigators' determination was reported Sunday by the Yonhap news agency.

"Instead of being directly hit by a torpedo or other underwater weapon, the Cheonan was affected by a strong explosion that occurred below its bottom at a close range," the news agency quoted a government official as saying.

The explanation matches one that investigators offered shortly after the ship's stern was salvaged 10 days ago.

A final result is not expected for a month, Defense Minister Kim Tae-young told reporters.

He said that the most likely cause of the sinking was a "bubble jet" created by the external explosion under the ship.

A bubble jet effect occurs when an explosion goes off under a ship. The change in pressure causes a huge column of water that strikes the ship with great impact.

On Saturday, recovery crews found the body of a missing sailor in the wreckage of the ship.

The ship sunk in the Yellow Sea near the western sea border with North Korea on March 26.

Forty of Cheonan's 104 crew members have now been confirmed dead, and six more are also believed dead, though they are still listed as missing.

Fifty eight others were rescued before the vessel sank.

South Korea has not ruled out a theory that North Korea was involved.

But Seoul has avoided directly blaming North Korea, which sloughed off allegations it is responsible.

The families of the dead sailors began a five-day mourning period on Sunday.

On Thursday, the South Korean navy will hold a funeral ceremony at a naval command in Pyeongtaek, about 70 kilometers (43 miles) south of Seoul.

The navy has also decided to posthumously promote the dead seamen by one rank and award them a military honor for their patriotism.

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I wonder if this was ordered or the product of officers losing their cool.

At this point it's even odds between a deliberate torpedo attack and a mine, and if it was a mine whether this was a left over mine from the Korean War, or one deliberately planted by the North. All this report seems to have eliminated is the possibility of an internal explosion on the Cheonan, i.e it didn't sink because some piece of equipment went wrong and exploded.

This screams Gulf of Tonkin Incident; shameless conspiracy! :o

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

At this point it's even odds between a deliberate torpedo attack and a mine,

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My money is on a mine.

A mine would be my choice, too.

Then it's a mine.

It might have been a torpedo.

Then it's a torpedo.

I dunno, man. It could have been a mine.

My bet is on a torpedo.

Rez for new update, North Korea's doing apparently.

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SEOUL - South Korea on Thursday accused the North of sinking a navy ship last March, saying the evidence was overwhelming and that it would take "firm" measures against its isolated neighbor.

The North called the report by international investigators a fabrication and warned that it was prepared to go to war if the South takes sanctions against it, South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported.

A joint civilian and military investigation team, that included experts from the United States, Australia, Britain and Sweden, concluded that a North Korean submarine fired the torpedo that sank the Cheonan corvette, killing 46 sailors.

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37244411...s-asiapacific/

I really doubt the South Koreans have the spine to take any serious action, even meaningful sanctions.

Dang man, who fires a torpedo into a ship during peace time?

Oh, a guy that starves millions of his own people. Nevermind. :(

If there was ever somebody who deserved penile leprosy....

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Originally Posted by Dreadnaught

I really doubt the South Koreans have the spine to take any serious action, even meaningful sanctions.

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Yeah, I just can't see either side itching for an open conflict on this one, though thats assuming rationality is used...