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Would the genders matter?
Would the ages matter?
Would it matter if it happened in your workplace, a public space, a private home, a public or private school?
How would these things affect your decision-making?
If you witnessed a rape in progress, what reasons would keep you from immediately reacting and intervening on behalf of the victim?
"Retire before 40" comes to mind immediately.
Guess I'll be the first to answer my own thread's questions since no one else is around right now.
First of all, I'd probably be asking myself if it's "rape" or "consensual sex". What am I seeing? Did I walk into a moment between lovers, or interrupt an attempted rape? My first reaction would probably be to say, "Hey! What's going on here? What are you doing?" But then, I'm kinda mouthy and reactive to begin with....
If there was an obvious age difference, I'd like to think I'd be even more forceful than that, and rush in between the adult and child, on some instinctual response as a mother. Shouting at the adult, maybe even slapping or hitting them, in an attempt to protect the child. Hypothetical, because I've never witnessed anything like that.
Even so, I'd rather err on the side of mistaking two consensual adults during their "afternoon delight", than take the chance that I walked away from sexual abuse or rape in progress.
I do believe that if I witnessed an adult male pushing someone [who appeared to be a ten year old boy child] against a wall and engaging in anal sex....I'd holler like hell and try to stop the act. Lead the child away and soothe him/her, and call 911. It's unimaginable to me that I could see that kind of thing, say nothing to stop it, and simply go home.
How long is a piece of string?
That's the problem with such a hypothetical question, the gritty reality of human existence is packed with far more convoluted and sublime variables than any simple question could consider - a hypothetical is always a simple straight "What would you do if? How does anyone really know how they would react, what they would do, what repercussions or long terms effects there will be etc until it actually happens in real life?
If by chance some ridiculous set of circumstances were to befall me that I was standing there physically unimpaired witnessing a rape I would (should) intervene and hopefully a)stop the rape, b) subdue the offender c) raise the alarm (in your case call 911) & d) offer some form of comfort and decency to the victim - However, since it is a hypothetical I could conceivably run into a nearby phone booth, take off my glasses and coat and instantly become a super hero too...:bore:
Watch it intently like some pervert :3
I joke of course :p but yeah, if it was obvious, then I'd call the police, or maybe call out "HEY WTF"
Have you read the Penn State thread? That was the impetus for this thread. Hypothetical for all of us, but based on reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by termite
I have a hard time believing anyone seeing a 10 year old boy, pinned against the wall, being anally raped by a grown man wouldn't have an immediate reaction. I have a hard time believing someone could walk away from that, and do nothing. But apparently, that's just what happened. The offenses continued for over a decade, while adults turned a blind eye.
Yes, I'm having a difficult time with this. It's not just philosophizing about the length of a piece of string. Some of the charges are going back to 1994 with boys as young as seven. With witnesses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
What I'm trying to say is that I'd join in.
This happened to a friend of mine in London. Him and another friend were walking near a club late at night and saw half a dozen men raping a woman. When my friend looked in their direction, they brandished several guns at him (he slowly walked away). Anyone pretending that they'd rush in to stop the act is deluding themselves.
There's no simple answer. In this instance, your friends should have called the police immediately. Good thing guns aren't allowed in Britain. (off topic).Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
If it's a one on one situation, it depends on a lot of factors. I have a concealed carry permit and some training. I'd feel comfortable attempting to stop it, verbally or by force. I'm also lucky that I'm a pretty large guy (6'4" and 250 lbs.) so I'm a pretty intimidating factor....
But no one knows how they will really react in such a situation, until it happens. I have a short fuse. So I'm thinking I'd jump in with a smile to stop it. 1 on 1, I doubt I'd hesitate. 2 on 1, I'm fairly sure I'd jump in. Worse odds then that, depends on if I'm packing or not.
My sister was raped as well. So it definitely adds a bit of emotion to it.
And what percentage of rapes are committed between people who already know each other, versus raping random people off the street?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Most rapes are of the date rape/spouse rape variety. No one is going to be in a position to stop them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessus
Ostensibly more would be in a position to interrupt adult on student rape.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Okay everybody and their grandmother has cell phones; why aren't people calling the police when these things happen? I'll hope Loki's friend at least attempted to call the cops, though I do find it odd that he was able to witness a gang-rape and "walk away" with no trouble. Maybe London criminals are less violent that our American counterparts?
People who idly stand by and watch things happen; or just walk away and pretend they didn't see anything. Our world is a fucked up place. :(
I would imagine that taking the phone out at that moment would not be conductive to him keeping his life. No idea whether he phoned the police after.
Well of course, I wouldn't think if you were unable to overpower several guys with guns that you'd be dumb enough to whip the phone out. I'm just hoping that he was humane enough to at least call the police or get someone's attention after vacating the immediate area. That's all :)
Given that everyone and their grandmother's cell phone has high-resolution digital image-taking capabilities these days, you generally aren't allowed to whip them out in the locker room/shower, to address the general case for the locker room scenario.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgrrl
And while I'm admittedly not the world' most experienced rapist, I would think that I might just do something about it, if I were in mid-rape and heard/saw a witness calling the cops... not that these things generally last long enough for the cops to arrive in time to do anything about it, mind you.
Personally, I find it odd that no one videotaped it, squeezed every red cent out of the guy, and then mailed the video to the cops/media/prosecutor once there was no money left to extract. <shrug>
How would that help, though? I get what you're saying, but passing the buck to someone (cops) who won't be able to get there in time to do anything about it (not to mention UK cops don't carry guns) isn't going to result in a better outcome than just shrugging your shoulders and walking off, so... well, why bother? What's the difference either way?Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgrrl
I don't know how you imagine rape... but you'll know if it's rape or not. It'll either be rape or some kinky sex role play, but even then I'll think you'll be able to tell. By the body language and intensity of each person. I think 95% of rapes are tellable on sight.Quote:
Hey! What's going on here? What are you doing?" But then, I'm kinda mouthy and reactive to begin with....
What would I do given it's a confirmed rape (in my mind), if I thought I could directly help I would. I think in most cases, I would make sure the raper knew I saw, and if I don't feel confident directly intervening then I would run down the street to the nearest public place and be yelling there is a rape going on. At the minimum that's what would happen. I guess very minimum, I'd be a complete panzy (let's say guy had a gun on his waist) then I'd try to leave the area quitely and call the cops, and alert any passerbys.
I'm not going to get myself shot.
Goddamn CCTVs you'd think they'd discourage gang-rape at least.
I haven't got a clue what I'd do. Guns aren't particularly common in Sweden among the kind of losers that might rape a woman out in the wild. Depending on how cocky I felt I might yell to break it up. I've done that once when a guy was getting very physical, but it wasn't rape at that point. I then alerted a couple of security guards who came down and took him away. Otherwise I'd have called the police.
If I had hundreds of anti-capitalistic friends I might have tried holding the bastard for the police :o
And you're basing this on extensive personal experience I take it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebanese Dragon
Would it really matter if they had knives, or baseball clubs, or even just fists?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
Do you think that's true even with eg. domestic rape?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebanese Dragon
I'm sure he has a large N for witnessing domestic and non-domestic rapes.
Of course it would, I don't need particularly long time to find a place with burly Swedish men and women and/or locked doors. I stay away from places where such things aren't around. Now if you're talking about gang-rape the odds may be worse, but how many rapes are gang-rapes anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Where am I seeing this rape in someone house? If I see a female seriously trying to fight off a guy who is very aggressively making actions on her, with disregard if it could really injure his victim... forcefully and painfully and quickly slamming them down as they try to rise, and forcing their legs into position as the other person genuinely is struggling to stop it "(scratching, biting, screaming, all energy and effort going toward stopping or drawing attention to this event.)Quote:
Do you think that's true even with eg. domestic rape?
I'm going to know it's not Role play... Honestly, i'd rather make a mistake and have it be role play... than to take the chance of letting a real rape continue, especially considering the probability that i'm viewing a rape verses some sort of erotic role play is ridiculous. I think most the time even in that case you'll distinguish.
I'd do basically what I said i'd do.. If i thought it was rape i'd report it, and I think most the time one will be able to tell. What I exactly do will depend upon if that person has weapons, and their size. If I could stop it sooner I would, but if I feel i might just lose, then i'd go try to make as much noise/alert as many people as possible instead.
I don't think it's really probable for me to witness a domestic rape, and if I did, if the woman was fighting back I'd try to stop it, if they weren't, I'd probably assume the sex is just regular sex between them, and then quickly turn away to give them privacy. If they weren't fighting back but I suspected a domestic rape, I'd probably let it happen.. and talk to them after. Even if I called the cops, if they're not fighitng back, they'd probably just lie to the cops and say it was consensual, serve no purpose. Best bet just to talk to them afterward if you suspect it was rape but couldn't tell by looking at it. I don't think i'd interrupt the act, if I couldn't tell.
What's it look like when someone is balancing on their head while holding a basketball between their legs? Do you need to see it to know what it's going to look like?Quote:
And you're basing this on extensive personal experience I take it?
We have enough experience with other thing to be able to logically construct it. Similarly, we have enough experience with human abilities, and their purposes (what's it mean when one human punches another) that when asked the question what will a rape look like.
All I have to do is take two perspectives. The aggressor (let's say a man) What's his goal, what does he need to do to achieve it. He needs to stop all attacks of his victim, place them in a position where he can insert himself, and remove any obstacle stopping said insertion. This means clothing, controlling the hips so they can't squirm away, and forcefully counteracting arm and leg movement. (which will be used to hurt/dislodge him from his mount position).
I know what he's going to be doing doing.. a lot of strenght, a lot of force.. he's not going to care about if his victim his hurt.. he has one goal. (this contrast to sex or even role play, where hurting someone to this degree or doing actions with the amount of force or intensity this person will be willing to use is not going to happen.)
Now Let's imagine how the girl will behave.
She will be using all her strength to stop him.. biting scratching, squiriming, screaming.. using all means to draw attention to herself and remove her aggressor. As she does these things, and she's striking to hurt.. especially if she's screaming to attract attention in semi-public place (like an alley). There will be a lot of clues it's rape. Where it happens, how it happens etc...
Some people might just whimper and accept it as some point, but most aren't going to. Those whimpering in acceptance are also going to have signs... they'll be looking away from their aggressor, there will be a look of pain, they'll not be into it.. may be rips in clothing. scratches.. broken nails.
I really don't think someone is going to walk into this kind of situation and be like "OMG is a rape going on, I wonder" I think majority of the time it'll be clear. The situation will tell you if it's rape. Some won't be, I admit. For most they will be. I can't prove it beyond that, but there you go.
If I thought I could help, I'd like to think I'd try.
More likely escape the scene and call the Police.
However even more likely I'd just see two people having sexual intercourse of some sort and immediately avert my eyes and think they were a couple rather than assume rape.
Not the same thing but recently was driving through Liverpool and I saw two girls fighting. Fighting may not be the best word for it, one was sprawled on the floor, the other was kicking her head repeatedly. I made a note of the intersection, found a safe place to park then called 999 to report it. The person at 999 said they'd already had a few people report it. This was about 4PM in the afternoon.
So the answer is to do nothing? Sigh. What a sad fucking planet.Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenCain
I'm sure the one being raped would appreciate at least someone in this world caring enough to at least try to save her, or to have the police (maybe) get there in time before they (possibly) shoot her. At least someone could report this happening so if a female is reported missing/dead maybe some pieces could be put together. I dunno. I'm beginning to tire of putting faith in humanity. Or anything really.
You're talking to CC he has little faith in anything other than himself and nicotine. I think most people, if they could muster past the intitial OMG shock of what's happening, will try to help if they see it. There are many times when people are screaming, but no one actually sees it.. you have the diffusion of responsiblity effect.
I've heard screaming before outside, maybe i'll look out the window... I only go outside to really check if the noise persists. In this case we're witnessing a rape, and I Think MOST of HUMANITY witnessing a rape (seeing it) will report it, and stop it if possible. I beleive that... we should take a poll.. we'll title it Restoring Cat's Faith.
Well, if the options are getting yourself shot/stabbed/stomped into a bloody stain, getting the police there too late to help or doing nothing, then yeah, do nothing. That said, I highly favor the videotape, blackmail into destitution, turn over to the authorities path if it's a viable option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgrrl
It's a start... might wanna stock up on good liquor before you head any further down that path, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgrrl
No, but they do have them, so they could be expected to deploy armed response officers if the suspects were armed.Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenCain
Anyway, if you're unable to physically prevent the rape then probably the next best thing you can do after calling the cops is to be a witness. Since mainly it is the victims word against the suspect, having a third party witness the attack should drastically improve the chances of a conviction.
Victims, not witnesses!
An accomplice, not a bystander.
Provided the suspects are apprehended at all... and not that he said/she said seems like it would be much of an issue in either of the examples here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
Not that I suppose it matters that much to me, or that I'm at all surprised at people expecting others to stick out their necks for total strangers for no reason or reward... just further validation of my opinions on mankind.