I think he is a lie, what do you think?
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I think he is a lie, what do you think?
do think that thee was a man who came to be known as Jesus yes. So that part is not a lie. Do I believe he was divine incarnation of some intangible force ( god if you wish), no. But that is not a lie, it is a misconception. So, still no.
If Jesus were alive today he would be on Lithium in a nut-house somewhere.
There are millions of people named Jesus. Which one you talking about?
Probing questions like that. Phew. I think we have the next Parkinson. Right here on our own forum .
At this point it's 50/50 in the poll (4 votes in), interesting.
The historical Jesus was almost certainly a real person. Maybe he was a revolutionary against the Roman occupation and the severe social stratification and inequities of the time and that was why he was executed. But that's all. The claim that Jesus rose from the dead was a lie - probably started by certain early Christians, before they were even called Chrisitians, in order to bring hope and strength to the movement. But today, when a priest in Church claimes Jesus was the Son of God and rose from the dead, I'm not so sure its fair to say he's lying. He ought to know better, but this set of memes is very old and very powerful, so. But originally way back in the beginning, someone lied.
Like I said, it's a misconception that jesus was the incarnation of some intangilble force, who worked miracles.
There is evidence that Jesus Christ as a person did exist, but I don't think he did everything he is believed to have done.
But a misconception is a far cry from a lie. No? And the OP wants to know about lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrunner
Or maybe a misconception if the grave was robbed. After all, wouldn't the martyr for a movement be buried with some sweet swag?Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Jesus could have been reborn and WAS reborn. How? Puppet strings and ventriloquisim :cool:
But there are people who go around preaching about this guy. They knock on your door and tell you things. They might just be "misconceived" but a lot of the time they do lie to your face.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Jesus almost certainly was eaten off the cross by feral dogs and carrion birds, like every other criminal of the time. There was no burial. The only gospel that mentions it was the last to be written and the one that embellishes the most (John, if I'm not mistaken). No, that was just wishful thinking on the part of the author who wanted to impart more dignity on Jesus' death than it warranted. There's a lie if you're really looking for one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempus Vernum
But they're not lying about Jesus, per se. They really think, or really really want to believe, that this dude was the son of God. Now, if they lie about other things, like how their church works and so on so they can get their manipulative hooks in you, that's something else entirely. But it isn't hte same as "Jesus is a lie."Quote:
Originally Posted by aoshi
( read second post) :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
edit: just saw new smilies as i was posting this :jam:
Ok. But I still thing there was a lie way back when. A lie about Jesus returning from the dead, about miracles being performed. People lied and it grew into a world straddling cultural monstrosity.Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrunner
In pre-school we played a game called 'Telephone'. The first person would whisper something in the ear of the second person. The second person would then repeat this (whispering of course) into the third persons ear, etc... I beleive we've all played at one point in our lives. By the time the phrase had been passed to the end of the line there were many changes to the wording, sometimes to the degree of altering the meaning of the original phrase. simply put, the myths of jesus' accomplishments have been embellished through retelling of the stories.
Jesus as miracle toting, death defying, compassionate son of mad frackin' god was no accident of poor communication.Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrunner
Hope played its part as well. See Loki's sig. for clarification on that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Ah? Okay, I wasn't aware of that part of crucifiction although it makes perfect sense in hindsight, if you're nailing 'em up why bother taking them down afterwards? let 'em serve as an example.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
A shame it didn't work really.
By example you mean "Horibble warning", right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempus Vernum
yes? can a rotting corpse nailed to a cross be taken another way?Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrunner
Just being clear, here. Thats how I would certainly take it.
It can be taken as a purging of sins, apparently...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempus Vernum
And also as an appropriate symbol for everybody to wear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cracky
Sorry, what? The burial is mentioned in all the gospels.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
The scholarly consensus is that Jesus was in fact buried. Even John Dominic Crossan, who I'm assuming you've taken your information from, asserts the possibility that he was buried and admits that there exists historical evidence that some crucified people were buried.
The poll choices are too black and white. We need some shades of grey here! :x
The Romans insisted on it. Family were not allowed to take the bodies down. It was a form of desecration, something the locals probably feared as much as death on the cross itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempus Vernum
:lol: With enough time, hope and self-delusion.... :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cracky
My bad. The unique story in John was of the rich dude that paid for a dignified burial, oils and perfumes, etc and what not. I mis-recalled it as burial at all. Yes, that came from Crossan, btw. It seems unlikely a lightning rod rabble rouser like Jesus would be allowed a burial by the Romans.Quote:
Originally Posted by noah crane
You mean Joseph of Arimathea? Again, mentioned in all the gospels.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Crossan's view does not accord with the scholarly consensus on this, even amongst Biblical scholars who certainly would not be accused by even the most hardened secularist of having vested interests in the debate, such as J.A.T Robinson, Geza Vermes, Bart Ehrman, Rudolf Bultmann and well, pretty much any other 'big name' in biblical studies that you'd care to mention.
What do you mean 'he is a lie'? Are you questioning his very existence? What he preached?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin Kazama
[quote=noah crane]You mean Joseph of Arimathea? Again, mentioned in all the gospels.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Crossan's view does not accord with the scholarly consensus on this, even amongst Biblical scholars who certainly would not be accused by even the most hardened secularist of having vested interests in the debate, such as J.A.T Robinson, Geza Vermes, Bart Ehrman, Rudolf Bultmann and well, pretty much any other 'big name' in biblical studies that you'd care to mention.[/quote:3avu76uz]
It doesn't matter if he was buried or not. He wasn't a god. Wether anyone intentionally lied to create that mythology is, I think, the heart of the topic.
The ignorance you've evinced on this topic thus far ought to serve as a warning to everyone that your opinions on this issue should be taken with a pinch of salt.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Do you mean to suggest that there is some verifiable historical evidence that Jesus (or any aspect of him) was divine? I'm not very well-versed in Norse mythology but I'm confident that Odin didn't create the world we inhabit with his bros. Similarly, while Chambalaya there might not be well acquainted with "appropriate" literature on the historical Jesus, I don't really see how that is an argument against his assertion that Jesus was not a god. (Or a part of one. Or whatever.)Quote:
Originally Posted by noah crane
Well, arn't you the arrogant cock sucker. You know I thought to give you a pass on the name dropping because that sliver of discussion was completely off topic and frankly didn't mean that much to me. But now that you've put on the fuck-wad mantle, I'd like to see some sources from all the names you dropped giving hard archeological and historical evidence that Jesus of Nazareth got special treatment from the Roman occupation and was allowed the respect of a burial. And no, Passion of the Christ is not a legitimate source. And really neither are the gospels. Nor is some scientist whose Faith might cloud otherwise sound objective judgements and analysis. Until you produce something legitimate and convincing from an objective source, I call bullshit and warn everyone to be wary not to discuss religon with you because your judgement is clearly clouded with arrogance and pride. Sinner!Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah Crane
And if you do produce it then more power to you. I could care less how Jesus' body was disposed. Clearly it means absolutely nothing to the thread topic. To echo Nessus' query, where's your evidence that Jesus rose from the dead? Walked on water? Multiplied bread and fish? Was anything but a social revolutionary that the Romans and the Jewish leadership stepped on like a bug.
Um, while I appreciate your candor on the subject of the filth that is faith, I would posit that Noah has more than just Mel Gibson to fall back to
None of it makes divinities any more real, but he is not a backwater yokel as you make him out to be
I know. He's also a name dropping arrogant prick who probably believes in ghosts and spirits. Fuck him. If he wants to be treated with courtesy then he should be less of a dick. I'm perfectly willing to be civil and nice to anyone whose the same to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessus