http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...teens-20120202
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http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...teens-20120202
Article is too long to post here.
Disturbing on so many levels.
"Open your eyes, people," Anderson recently wrote to the local newspaper. "What if a 15-year-old is seduced into homosexual behavior and then contracts AIDS?"Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorNorton
:bulb:
:(
God damn it where is the counter war? :(
San Francisco, New York, and LA? The Massachusetts legislature, California courts, and the Congress which just repealed DADT? The spread of GSA's and related school clubs across the country? The obvious growth in tolerance, acceptance and visibility of "gay" issues over the last 40 years, much of it concentrated in the last 20?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
I don't think any of those things is relavent to this community, they felt none of it, for them there was no resistance.Quote:
San Francisco, New York, and LA? The Massachusetts legislature, California courts, and the Congress which just repealed DADT? The spread of GSA's and related school clubs across the country? The obvious growth in tolerance, acceptance and visibility of "gay" issues over the last 40 years, much of it concentrated in the last 20?
The side of tolerance may be winning the war on net, but they're sadly losing many of the battles along the way. Who wants to call themselves a Christian when you have these idiots running around. That have no understanding of the reprecussions of their actions. Sad time-period for America, though there have been worse eras in our history.
I think they understand very well what the consequences of their actions are. They simply don't care about the lives of gays, and if anything, want them to suffer to serve as an example to others.
You're probably right, as sad as that is.
No I mean like destroying gay-hating grandmother associationsQuote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
They'll quite literally die off.
Not with Obama's grandma-saving healthcare revolutions they won't.
Honestly, this article made me go :( :mad: and :bulb:
The school board's thorough investigation finds that none of this had anything to do with the school board's policy, because the school board's policy had nothing to do with the unchecked bullying and bullying didn't have anything to do with the suicides anyway. This was only due to "mental illness", which can't possibly be caused by bullying and being isolated. Evidence? Well, they were gay weren't they? That's both a symptom and a cause of mental illness innit.
I wonder if it'd do any good to expose and possibly punish the kids who were most involved in the bullying, or the adults who made sure it wasn't stopped. Like you, I don't think they were particularly bothered by the negative consequences of their actions. Perhaps you could accomplish something through public humiliation and legal smackdowns?
And what the hell, they could kill off discussions about gayness in schools, block a GSA club, and also get an annual anti-gay/pro-Christianity extravaganza?? :bulb:
The gay-hating grandmothers have just as much right to organize and associate as those of us participating in a GSA, PFLAAG chapter, or related organization. Their associations are being destroyed the only tolerable way such can be, by our increasing visibility and assimilation altering cultural values. Are you under the impression that there is some faster, more effective way to change social values? Besides violence which I assume you don't think is an option that can be considered on the table?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
What gets me is how cowardly the teachers in these schools are. If they think the policy is wrong, violate it (considering how vague the policy was, it's not clear the district would really even try to punish them). Firstly, it's the moral thing to do. And secondly, the union would block any attempt to fire them. Quite frankly, I wouldn't even want to teach in a district where the school board is this insane.
I do understand the approach, the driving job-security need to not be visible or make waves against that sort of hostility but at the same time speaking up with some sharp "cut that out"s or sending a few students to the counselor's office or administrator's office when they're surrounding another student and taunting them, regardless of the specific pejorative content is pretty easily defensible on any grounds considering the basic anti-bullying policy, and doesn't uphold homosexuality or violate "neutrality" in any way. It seems to be that quite a bit more could have been done even within the scope of the district policy, and damn well should have been done, certainly after the two or three suicides when it was apparent that pressure on the students, whatever its source, was just way too high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Exactly. The article points out how ambiguous the policy was. There was quite a lot of room to maneuver for anyone who wanted to keep their job but also do something about the problem. Just about everyone in that town should be ashamed of their actions (or more accurate, their inactions). I also find it odd that the teacher's union did nothing about a serious threat to their teachers' autonomy and ability to perform their jobs. But I guess they care more about union dues than about minor things like that.
"I think for all of us, our experience in public schools is there have always been bullies. Always have been, always will be. I just don't know how we're ever going to get to the point of zero tolerance."
There have always been criminals and always will be. I guess we should stop prosecuting them.
Or we could just do our damnedest to make sure the originator of that quote never gets any influence worth mentioning.
Welcome to local politics and school boards: the home of the ignorant, the racist, and the petty tyrant.
I've always struggled to understand:
Is it petty tyrant? Or petit tyrant?
After all, it's actually petit larceny, right?
It's "petty", because they don't really have much power.
As for the other part, "petty larceny" is the dominant spelling nowadays.
Kinda adds another reason not to give a shit about the "death of small town America," eh? Good riddance to bad rubbish and all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorNorton
I know that you dislike "small town America" but ya know what? Not every small town is as ignorant as this *big city* and their narrow-minded policies! For Christ's sake...I live in Bum-fucked Nowhere, USA and we still don't treat gay people like this district did! Do we have a lot of GLBT people in town? No! Do we treat the few we have like fuck-ups? Hell NO! Most small towns don't give a flying fuck who you are fucking, other than gossip value! As far as I know, we only have about 15 people here who are gay. Everyone knows it and no one cares! Kinda one of those things, WTFever!Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenCain
And if homophobic bigotry was the only big sin or failing or small town America, you'd have a point. But bigotry in general, never mind JUST bigotry aimed at tha h0m0s, is just one of the many reasons the world would be better off without your typical small town.
I'm not sure I can agree with you on this one Cain, the culture war is moving into the small towns as well. At least here in Maine, a lot of the towns are just 'You mind your beeswax and I'll mind mine' which fits into my mind set just nicely.
If yer talking about how DULL they can be, well, yeah, but that is why GLOD made cars and the interwebs.
Was thinking more along the lines of how gossipy and involved in everyone's life the typical small town is (in my experience anyway), but sure, dull's a factor too.
http://news.yahoo.com/sc-mayor-sneak...151616628.html
Small-town America. :noob:
Thank you for that corrective. Most small towns aren't breeding grounds for bigotry and hatred, just for petty tyranny, corruption and oppression. :downcast:
That said, the truly remarkable thing about that story is that dickless there hasn't wound up dead or "missing" yet, meaning there's no one in that town with a brain and a set of balls to match... which probably explains how a shitbag like him got elected mayor in the first place. :sour:
I find it amusing you think small towns have more bigotry than big cities. Surely folks in big cities don't voluntarily segregate themselves at all...Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenCain
Don't ever expect teachers to make the right decision. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
That being said... ultimately the person or group of people responsible for the suicides... are the ones who committed suicide. Do I condone the tolerance of bullying? Nope. But people never want to pin personal responsibility where it belongs.
Surely Homeschooler would disagree. *cough*Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Children committing suicide shouldn't be whittled down to their own personal responsibility. That's ridiculous.Quote:
That being said... ultimately the person or group of people responsible for the suicides... are the ones who committed suicide. Do I condone the tolerance of bullying? Nope. But people never want to pin personal responsibility where it belongs.
You mean we as a society believe that 13-year-olds have the full capacity to make decisions of life and death? Perhaps we should let them smoke, drink, and vote too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Oh geez do you trust them to walk to a bus stop? Let them stay home unsupervised?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
The diluting of personal responsibility is part of the problem. A 13 year old is fully capable of NOT killing themselves off. The fact that they are opining on the positive traits of the people who did HUGE damage to their families and communities is disgusting. The selfish little bastards have put their parents, friends and community through hell with their actions and you think it should be excused because they were "only" 13?
I guess a gang of 13 year olds who rapes and murders someone should be let off with a slap on the wrist since they were "only" 13?
WTF happened here? Lewk, do you understand any developmental dynamics of teens and pre-teens? Do you understand any suicidal ideation as a psychological pathology, and that it's most common in adults?
What's disgusting is your comparison of suicidal teens to peer rapists and murderers. :down:
Do you think a 13-year-old who commits a crime should get the equivalent sentence to a 20-year-old? Again, if we think 13-year-olds are fully responsible for their actions, why exactly don't we let them smoke, drink, and vote? You vastly overestimate the ability of a 13-year-old to think rationally, especially when they're being constantly bullied (without punishment) at a place where they have to spend every weekday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Eh? Its not a comparison its taking Loki's argument to its logical conclusion. If you can not blame a 13 year old for their actions then imagine an extreme action where it would unconscionable not to take action against the 13 year old.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Suicide is obviously not as bad as rape and murder however it is an act of selfishness. Essentially the person who commits suicide is saying that their family and friends mean nothing to them. Those who do kill themselves should be vilified and mocked for what they did, not treated as a victim. They may be victims of bullying/assault/harassment but they aren't murder victims. They killed themselves, no one "made" them do it.
I'm fine with giving out the same punishment to a 13 year old murderer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
So death penalty? How about a 10-year-old? 7?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
In other words, you have no idea how pre-teens and teens develop. And you have no clue why people with suicidal ideations, or those who attempt (or commit) suicide should never be vilified or mocked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Wow, I have very little positive thoughts about suicide, yet I blinked when reading Lewkowski's evaluation of what suicide means. I think death is never the right way out, but it's quite another thing seeing suicide as a cheap tool to punish people close to you.