Facebook Parenting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl1ujzRidmU

Youch :o

But as he says on his facebook (among many other fairly sensible things as well as plugs for the Muscular Dystrophy Association) these were 8 minutes of one of the worst days of his life :o

That cig never touched his lips, that says all you need to know for how pissed he was.

but I can't stop wondering if the hard drive survived...

When I saw this video, it was the first time I had ever been so happy to see something so expensive get destroyed. As a future teacher, I have to sit and watch and deal with a ridiculous amount of entitled assholes called high school teenagers. There are way too many parents that are not doing their job being a parent and just want to be the kids' friend. It blows my mind and pisses me off to know end. I want to shake that fathers hand and tell him how great of a job he did with that video. I'm sure it killed him to have to make that video because i'm sure he loves his child but I hope he grounds that little bitch until she goes to college.

I doubt sticks without carrots work for bringing up kids. After all, the guy grounded his daughter for 3 months in the past (which seems rather extreme for a teenager). I don't begrudge him for destroying that laptop, but providing one punishment after another isn't going to fix his daughter. He should at least reduce the period of grounding each time she does her chores, does well in school, etc.

chores and school should never be used as rewards in that manner. Such things should be seen as expected. Sure, you can reward the child for performing those items well, even while grounded, but you don't want to fall into the cycle of normal behavior being seen as a way to get out of punishment.

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Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer

but you don't want to fall into the cycle of normal behavior being seen as a way to get out of punishment.

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err... isn't that how things work?

maybe its the wording I used, but I don't consider not getting in trouble, and getting out of trouble, to be the same thing. Grounding your child for skipping class and then lifting that grounding for doing the dishes results in 2 totally different behavioral conditioning outcomes.

EDIT:
How I'm interpreting Loki's post:

Doing the dishes, then skipping school = punishment
Skipping school, then doing dishes = less punishment


Which is why certain things you expect from your children shouldn't ever enter the equation when it comes to punishment and rewards.

And dishing out punishments vastly disproportional to the crime is bound to create resentment.

Kids think every punishment is disproportional.

Sure, but do you really think that the punishment for publicly insulting one's parents should be a significantly lower quality of life for several years? Maybe chop their hands off too?

Well, it's clear she's her father's daughter.

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Originally Posted by Loki

Sure, but do you really think that the punishment for publicly insulting one's parents should be a significantly lower quality of life for several years? Maybe chop their hands off too?

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Your acting like this was a one time incident. The little wench had been an ongoing struggle and is need of really tough love for some time.

tough love = good
humiliation = bad

he could have easily put his foot down while opening communication channels, without the nationwide humiliation. Although his stunt here did get him a visit by child protective services and some parenting counseling. That is always good.

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Originally Posted by Loki

Sure, but do you really think that the punishment for publicly insulting one's parents should be a significantly lower quality of life for several years? Maybe chop their hands off too?

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can we try not to so greatly exaggerate what is presented in the video?

He says no access to most forms of technology until she hits 18.

awww...

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Originally Posted by Loki

He says no access to most forms of technology until she hits 18.

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Is that your interpretation of this line:

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Originally Posted by Tommy

You don’t have to worry about buying a new laptop battery, you don’t have to worry about buying a new power cord, you don’t have to worry about buying a new camera cause you won’t be using any of them to probably College

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or this line:

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Originally Posted by Tommy

you can have a new laptop when you buy a new laptop.

And when you pay me back for the $130.00 dollars for the software I spent on your yesterday.

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cause he never mentions anything about turning 18

:noob:

Dang...OG and I are agreeing on something?

Parenthood has ruined me.

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Originally Posted by Loki

He says no access to most forms of technology until she hits 18.

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Which is obviously the same as chopping her hands off. Not to mention that she can still get one herself, and said nothing about using the family computer (assuming they have one), just that he's not getting her anything for herself anymore. Hell, he even got her a job interview! This is so similar to chopping her hands off, thank you so much for making that valid comparison. Taking away something as trivial as hands is obviously as bad as not buying your daughter stuff for herself, but making her work for it!

Damn, come to think of it, my parents never gave me a laptop or a digital camera, I'm lucky that I still have my hands to use the keyboard of the laptop I bought.

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Originally Posted by Flixy

Which is obviously the same as chopping her hands off. Not to mention that she can still get one herself, and said nothing about using the family computer (assuming they have one), just that he's not getting her anything for herself anymore. Hell, he even got her a job interview! This is so similar to chopping her hands off, thank you so much for making that valid comparison. Taking away something as trivial as hands is obviously as bad as not buying your daughter stuff for herself, but making her work for it!

Damn, come to think of it, my parents never gave me a laptop or a digital camera, I'm lucky that I still have my hands to use the keyboard of the laptop I bought.

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No, she can't. Listen to the video.

He got her a job interview...she's 15.

Honestly I don't think this is good parenting, I just think that some good may have come out of it. It may be good for a teenager to learn that their parents are in fact human beings (with all that entails). Humiliation isn't a good parenting tool in and of itself. These two have had problems for some time and I have no doubt much of it is because of the way the dad is.

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Originally Posted by Loki

No, she can't. Listen to the video.

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:bulb:
he flat out says her next laptop is one she is going to buy.

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He got her a job interview...she's 15.

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15 going on 16, so the birthday thing is kind of a wash, but I don't see a problem with some possible responsibility for someone who has reached this level of entitlement.

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Originally Posted by Loki

No, she can't. Listen to the video.

He got her a job interview...she's 15.

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As OG said, he flat out said her next laptop would be her own. I have listened to the video, have you? Also, I had a job starting at 13 or 14 to pay for my luxuries.

Opinions on whether or not this is good parenting or not, you've said things in this thread that aren't true, and compared it to chopping her hands off. The only reason I am posting at all (after all, I'm not a parent, I can't really judge well) is because your posts are really annoying me. I don't think it's inherently wrong not to give your kids everything they ask for, especially if they are not grateful for it. Or do you think all parents who don't get their kids a laptop or camera are evil? Because in that cvase, there are a lot of evil parents in this world.

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Originally Posted by Aimless

These two have had problems for some time and I have no doubt much of it is because of the way the dad is.

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I don't think I agree with this, but he did release a detailed account of the aftermath of this video. its a lot more collected and focused.

https://www.facebook.com/tommyjordan...50524399260846

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Originally Posted by Tommy

Since you took the time to email us with your requests like we asked, I’ll take the time to give you an honest follow-up response. You’ll have to forgive me for doing so publicly though; again I want to be sure my words are portrayed the way I actually say them, not cut together to make entirely different points.

Your questions were:
Q: Why did you decide to reprimand your daughter over a public medium like YouTube?

A: Well, I actually just had to load the video file itself on YouTube because it’s a better upload process than Facebook, but the intended audience was her Facebook friends and the parents of those friends who saw her post and would naturally assume we let our children get away with something like that. So, to answer “Why did you reprimand her over a public medium like Facebook” my answer is this: Because that’s how I was raised. If I did something embarrassing to my parents in public (such as a grocery store) I got my tail tore up right there in front of God and everyone, right there in the store. I put the reprisal in exactly the same medium she did, in the exact same manner. Her post went out to about 452 people. Mine went out to about 550 people… originally. I had no idea it would become what it did.

Q: How effective do you think your punishment was (i.e. shooting her laptop and reading her letter online)?

A: I think it was very effective on one front. She apparently didn’t remember being talked to about previous incidents, nor did she seem to remember the effects of having it taken away, nor did the eventual long-term grounding seem to get through to her. I think she thought “Well, I’ll just wait it out and I’ll get it back eventually.” Her behavior corrected for a short time, and then it went back to what it was before and worse. This time, she won’t ever forget and it’ll be a long time before she has an opportunity to post on Facebook again. I feel pretty certain that every day from then to now, whenever one of her friends mentions Facebook, she’ll remember it and wish she hadn’t done what she did.

The second lesson I want her to learn is the value of a dollar. We don’t give her everything she asks for, but you can all imagine what it’s like being the only grandchild and the first child. Presents and money come from all sides when you’re young. Most of the things she has that are “cool” were bought or gifted that way. She’s always asked for very few things, but they’re always high-dollar things (iPod, laptop, smartphone, etc). Eventually she gets given enough money to get them. That’s not learning the value of a dollar. Its knowing how to save money, which I greatly applaud in her, but it’s not enough. She wants a digital SLR camera. She wants a 22 rifle like mine. She wants a car. She wants a smart phone with a data package and unlimited texting. (I have to hear about that one every week!)

She thinks all these things are supposed to be given to her because she’s got parents. It’s not going to happen, at least not in our house. She can get a job and work for money just like everyone else. Then she can spend it on anything she wants (within reason). If she wants to work for two months to save enough to purchase a $1000 SLR camera with an $800 lens, then I can guarantee she’ll NEVER leave it outside at night. She’ll be careful when she puts it away and carries it around. She’ll value it much more because she worked so hard to get it. Instead, with the current way things have been given to her, she's on about her fourth phone and just expects another one when she breaks the one she has. She's not sorry about breaking it, or losing it, she's sorry only because she can't text her friends. I firmly believe she'll be a LOT more careful when she has to buy her own $299.00 Motorola Razr smartphone.

Until then, she can do chores, and lots and lots of them, so the people who ARE feeding her, clothing her, paying for all her school trips, paying for her musical instruments, can have some time to relax after they finish working to support her and the rest of the family. She can either work to make money on her own, or she will do chores to contribute around the house. She’s known all along that all she has to do is get a job and a lot of these chores will go away. But if you’re too lazy to work even to get things you want for yourself, I’m certainly not going to let you sit idly on your rear-end with your face glued to both the TV and Facebook for 5 to 6 hours per night. Those days are over.

Q: How did your daughter respond to the video and to what happened to her laptop?

A: She responded to the video with “I can’t believe you shot my computer!” That was the first thing she said when she found out about it. Then we sat and we talked for quite a long while on the back patio about the things she did, the things I did in response, etc.

Later after she’d had time to process it and I’d had time to process her thoughts on the matters we discussed, we were back to a semi-truce… you know that uncomfortable moment when you’re in the kitchen with your child after an argument and you’re both waiting to see which one’s going to cave in and resume normal conversation first? Yeah, that moment. I told her about the video response and about it going viral and about the consequences it could have on our family for the next couple of days and asked if she wanted to see some of the comments people had made. After the first few hundred comments, she was astounded with the responses.

People were telling her she was going to commit suicide, commit a gun-related crime, become a drug addict, drop out of school, get pregnant on purpose, and become a stripper because she’s too emotionally damaged now to be a productive member of society. Apparently stripper was the job-choice of most of the commenters. Her response was “Dude… it’s only a computer. I mean, yeah I’m mad but pfft.” She actually asked me to post a comment on one of the threads (and I did) asking what other job fields the victims of laptop-homicide were eligible for because she wasn’t too keen on the stripping thing.

We agreed we learned two collective lessons from this so far:

First: As her father, I’ll definitely do what I say I will, both positive and negative and she can depend on that. She no longer has any doubt about that.

Second: We have always told her what you put online can affect you forever. Years later a single Facebook/MySpace/Twitter comment can affect her eligibility for a good job and can even get her fired from a job she already has. She’s seen first-hand through this video the worst possible scenario that can happen. One post, made by her Dad, will probably follow him the rest of his life; just like those mean things she said on Facebook will stick with the people her words hurt for a long time to come. Once you put it out there, you can’t take it back, so think carefully before you use the internet to broadcast your thoughts and feelings.

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Originally Posted by Flixy

As OG said, he flat out said her next laptop would be her own. I have listened to the video, have you? Also, I had a job starting at 13 or 14 to pay for my luxuries.

Opinions on whether or not this is good parenting or not, you've said things in this thread that aren't true, and compared it to chopping her hands off. The only reason I am posting at all (after all, I'm not a parent, I can't really judge well) is because your posts are really annoying me. I don't think it's inherently wrong not to give your kids everything they ask for, especially if they are not grateful for it. Or do you think all parents who don't get their kids a laptop or camera are evil? Because in that cvase, there are a lot of evil parents in this world.

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He also didn't get her an interview. he made her fill a job application, which she hasn't turned in yet.

Motivation is tricky

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Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer

He also didn't get her an interview. he made her fill a job application, which she hasn't turned in yet.

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Sorry, my bad. The whole video thing got her a job interview though, saw it on his facebook.

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Originally Posted by Flixy

As OG said, he flat out said her next laptop would be her own. I have listened to the video, have you? Also, I had a job starting at 13 or 14 to pay for my luxuries.

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Have you listened to the video? He said she won't need any computer parts until college at 6:10. Near the end, he says she can buy a new laptop whenever she's not grounded, whichever year that's in. So no, she won't be able to buy a new laptop to replace this one for the foreseeable future.

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Opinions on whether or not this is good parenting or not, you've said things in this thread that aren't true, and compared it to chopping her hands off. The only reason I am posting at all (after all, I'm not a parent, I can't really judge well) is because your posts are really annoying me. I don't think it's inherently wrong not to give your kids everything they ask for, especially if they are not grateful for it. Or do you think all parents who don't get their kids a laptop or camera are evil? Because in that cvase, there are a lot of evil parents in this world.

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Yes, I do think that all parents who take away "toys" their children spend most of their time on as punishment, for years to boot, are borderline evil. At the very least, it shows them to be incredibly vindictive and unforgiving. And it certainly doesn't help when we're at an age of technology, when most interaction children have (outside of school) are with those technologies, and even doing their homework becomes much more difficult without them.

A 15-year-old isn't going to get paid more than $5 an hour for a job (if that). Unless you expect them to have absolutely no free time at all, the most they can realistically earn in a week is $50. If you remove even $10 of that for hanging out with friends, it would take the girl more than half a year to save up for a laptop alone. It's one thing when parents can't afford something or when the child hasn't gotten used to using a given "toy". But punishing someone for years at a time for a handful of lapses in judgment is downright cruel. I sincerely hope you wisen up before you have a child of your own if you're going to treat them like scum.

Edit: Reading OG's post, it looks like the father didn't even buy her the laptop. She bought the laptop with gift money that she received. So, in effect, he's destroying her property, bought with her own money. That will surely teach her a proper lesson.

I'm also amused by people who think the purpose of criminal punishment is rehabilitation supporting a punishment for an act like this that is both disproportional and vindictive.

Whoa. This:

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Originally Posted by Loki

He said she won't need any computer parts until college at 6:10.

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is no where near the same as this:

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Originally Posted by Loki

He says no access to most forms of technology until she hits 18.

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Which was the original complaint against you. Your usual attempt to over-exaggerate simple facts.

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A 15-year-old isn't going to get paid more than $5 an hour for a job (if that). Unless you expect them to have absolutely no free time at all, the most they can realistically earn in a week is $50. If you remove even $10 of that for hanging out with friends, it would take the girl more than half a year to save up for a laptop alone. It's one thing when parents can't afford something or when the child hasn't gotten used to using a given "toy". But punishing someone for years at a time for a handful of lapses in judgment is downright cruel. I sincerely hope you wisen up before you have a child of your own if you're going to treat them like scum.

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The age has already been shown to be a moot point. See: 15 going on 16. I was making well over $5 an hour a decade ago when I was 16. Even if it was $5 an hour, at $50 (or $40) a week. My notebook cost me $200 new. Thats barely over a month of saving.

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Edit: Reading OG's post, it looks like the father didn't even buy her the laptop. She bought the laptop with gift money that she received. So, in effect, he's destroying her property, bought with her own money. That will surely teach her a proper lesson.

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You're doing that thing again. That exaggeration thing.
The wording is

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The second lesson I want her to learn is the value of a dollar. We don’t give her everything she asks for, but you can all imagine what it’s like being the only grandchild and the first child. Presents and money come from all sides when you’re young. Most of the things she has that are “cool” were bought or gifted that way. She’s always asked for very few things, but they’re always high-dollar things (iPod, laptop, smartphone, etc). Eventually she gets given enough money to get them.

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which doesn't support soley your interpretation

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I'm also amused by people who think the purpose of criminal punishment is rehabilitation supporting a punishment for an act like this that is both disproportional and vindictive.

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You've yet to solidify this claim with knowledge or facts :o

Was it a gift or wasn't it??

You know, it's weird. I am generally positive about this incident, but I definitely believe the dad went over the line through his disproportionately vindictive acts of humiliation and destruction. As I see it, the question isn't whether or not he (or the kid) was out of line. I'm more interested in reflecting on how to relate to an event such as this, a difficult conflict between father and daughter. That said, I don't think disproportional and vindictive punishments are appropriate between father and daughter :o

Have you dealt with 15 yr olds lately? For more than a couple of days?

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Originally Posted by Aimless

Was it a gift or wasn't it??

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I don't think it matters if she saved up gift cards, if it was bought with allowance, or if the parents bought it and gave it to her. Its technically hers either way.

Of course, its the same as buying your daughter a Nerf Thor Hammer one day and then having to take it away after a few days because all she does with it is attempt to beat the living hell out of everyone, ignoring every attempt you've made to make her stop.

It was hers, but then she lost it, because she didn't learn the appropriate way to use it. Now its mine...I mean garbage.

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Originally Posted by Veldan Rath

Have you dealt with 15 yr olds lately? For more than a couple of days?

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I've dealt with several 15-year-olds, both recently and before. Some of them are mentally ill, others are just misguided and unhappy :mad: In retrospect, I myself was very difficult at most ages. In over a decade of trying, my dad never got anywhere good trying to "raise" me. My mum did far more for my personal development and happiness in just half a year--like she has for other kids--and what I've learned from her behaviour has helped me with the kids I've had occasion to mentor/guide in some form or another. There are many ways to deal with people and with problems man. I reckon much of the time our preferences wrt methods are about dealing with ourselves rather than about the people or problems before us. cheers

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Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer

Which was the original complaint against you. Your usual attempt to over-exaggerate simple facts.

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I was basing this on her earlier 3-month grounding, when she lost access to her cell phone as well.

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The age has already been shown to be a moot point. See: 15 going on 16. I was making well over $5 an hour a decade ago when I was 16. Even if it was $5 an hour, at $50 (or $40) a week. My notebook cost me $200 new. Thats barely over a month of saving.

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Good for you. Other people think that children should spend more time playing and being kids than working.

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which doesn't support soley your interpretation

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Yes, it does. He clearly says that she buys her big-ticket items with money she is given or provided as gifts. Do you take away gifts from people because they misbehave after the fact?

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You've yet to solidify this claim with knowledge or facts :o

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You've yet to demonstrate that you're anything but a partisan troll.

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Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer

It was hers, but then she lost it, because she didn't learn the appropriate way to use it. Now its mine...I mean garbage.

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A nerf thor hammer has only one or two purposes, a laptop has many. Venting on facebook is one of them, although, funny thing, it's not actually necessary for using facebook. Please don't pretend that shooting the laptop was about anything than punishment, revenge, emotional release and personal gratification. Way to appreciate the value of things, destroying a useful tool. What, he couldn't have sold it? Donated it? Maybe to his favoured charity the MDA? Pff. The guy reacted poorly, but hopefully they'll sort things out

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Originally Posted by Loki

Other people think that children should spend more time playing and being kids than working.

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Well they're idiots. Kids should spend more time reading fantasy :heart: :up:

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Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer

It was hers, but then she lost it, because she didn't learn the appropriate way to use it. Now its mine...I mean garbage.

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What a valuable life lesson that is. Maybe we should do that to you. We can start by taking away your computer for a year every time you troll on an internet forum.

The proportional punishment here would be to either block Facebook for an extended period of time or to remove access to a computer for perhaps a month (if you really want to make it hurt, take it away during a vacation). You're basically advocating the death penalty for stealing toothpaste. And you're doing it for a 15-year-old who society does not consider to be fully responsible for their actions.

And this punishment should be done in tandem with a series of conservations where you try to find out just why the child is so resistant to doing her chores and convince her that she's wrong. If you have a good relationship with your child, this really isn't as hard as it sounds.

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Originally Posted by Aimless

There are many ways to deal with people and with problems man. I reckon much of the time our preferences wrt methods are about dealing with ourselves rather than about the people or problems before us. cheers

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Ditto. Most people I come across who support these kind of punishments are those who were punished the same way by their parents and claim "they turned out fine". Well you know what? No, they didn't turn out fine. They think psychological or physical violence is the way to deal with problems, and that overreaction and vindictiveness are proper emotional responses.

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Originally Posted by Loki

Ditto. Most people I come across who support these kind of punishments are those who were punished the same way by their parents and claim "they turned out fine".

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Oh boy, are we gonna have a spanking thread? Those things are awesome :D

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Originally Posted by Loki

I was basing this on her earlier 3-month grounding, when she lost access to her cell phone as well.

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so a previous unknown punishment resulting in no cell phone = hands being cut off? or does it equal no use of technology?
cause neither claim can be backed up with anything said in the video :bulb:

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Good for you. Other people think that children should spend more time playing and being kids than working.

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First you claim 10-12 year olds are teens, now you claim 15-16 year olds are children.
Talk about trolling.

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Yes, it does. He clearly says that she buys her big-ticket items with money she is given or provided as gifts. Do you take away gifts from people because they misbehave after the fact?

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um, yes. As I said above. If you don't know how to use it, you lose it.
Government holds a similiar stance when it comes to such things as well, including computers.

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Originally Posted by Aimless

A nerf thor hammer has only one or two purposes, a laptop has many. Venting on facebook is one of them, although, funny thing, it's not actually necessary for using facebook. Please don't pretend that shooting the laptop was about anything than punishment, revenge, emotional release and personal gratification. Way to appreciate the value of things, destroying a useful tool. What, he couldn't have sold it? Donated it? Maybe to his favoured charity the MDA? Pff. The guy reacted poorly, but hopefully they'll sort things out

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The video doesn't make mention of how well this family is connected technology wise, but I highly doubt a family with an IT dad would only be using a single daughter's laptop, so I'm not worried about the daughter not being able to use a computer to complete important tasks. The laptop may have very well been considered a toy by the parents, much like a nerf hammer is. Toys to play with. Not instruments to hurt people with, especially after being warned. Brent has a laptop, and I wouldn't question myself at all if I had to take it away from him for bullying or attacking class mates or family with it. Is he going to suffer a lower quality of life? No, cause we still have several desktops (one thats in his room) and other laptops. His laptop was his toy, nothing more, and he treats it as such.

I've already stated my opinion about wasting a laptop, and that its good he got some parenting counseling. The destruction wasn't the over the line action here. It was the humilation that came with sharing the video. But I also think this is an important lesson, and not nearly as doom and gloom as Loki likes to favor for such things.