Wouldn't it be the legalisation of various drugs in the US? The prison industry would hate it, but you can justify it from liberal as well as conservative positions, and Mexico might be pretty happy about it too. You'd save costs on arrests, processing cases, incarceration, lost productivity, future problems with employment etc, broken families, it'd free up police resources, etc.
Talk amongst yourselves :o
Yeah, those drug lords would be horrified from the resulting higher demand for their products.
I think you will find A LOT of us agree on this...Lewk is a BIG proponent as well!
The problem is there are a bunch of moral (!) conservatives that can't stand this idea (you know...people making their own decisions!!!)...and maybe a small block of liberals that wouldn't like this either.
Source on that? Will you go out and buy heroin if it's legal tomorrow?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
The conservative pitch is precisely that legalisation would undermine the position of the cartels, but if legalisation alone is not enough then you can impose tariffs and taxes and regulations etc. Start selling home-grown stuff :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Do you really deny that there are people that won't engage in a behavior as long as it's illegal?Quote:
Originally Posted by Veldan Rath
How would that do anything to get rid of a black market for those drugs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
1. I deny it would be a huge upswing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
2. By this logic...The Al Capone's of the world would still exist with their bootleg booze and cigs...is there still a black market, yes, but no were as powerful as the drug cartels. And having legalized producers would take a HUGE hit out of the cartels. (or maybe they go legit :) )
Last I checked, the government isn't trying to limit the supply or alcohol or cigarettes. And while it puts high taxes on both, those taxes aren't prohibitive. I doubt most proponents of drug legalization want the same kind of restrictions (or lack thereof) on heroin and cocaine.
Why not?
It would have the same limitations as booze and fags. Can't drive (except for maybe MJ) or use at work...as it affects your ability to do said activity...
Taxes could be used to get people off the stuff (like fags)
Damn, fags is so much easier than cigarettes...
So you'd want absolutely no restrictions on the sale of those drugs except perhaps banning sales to minors?
Meh, why not, we don't have any now. (That are working)
We can always add more...government is always good at adding more regulations/restrictions.
What percentage of people who use alcohol abuse it? Do you want the same for heroin and cocaine users? Are you going to pay for the extra cops to keep these people in check and for all the lawsuits arising from those people hurting innocent bystanders?
Cause we ain't paying for interdiction?
How much are we spending on the the drug war again?
Wow, Loki, you are a big government conservative.
And how much would we pay if a similar number of high school seniors started doing heroin as are currently drinking?
How much are we paying now again?
Sorry, Loki you are barking up the wrong tree here...if the modern day high school senior can't figure out that smoking/drinking/shooting up is gonna fuck them up, then they are a lost cause.
Yeah, because we trust high school seniors to act rationally.
They drive and some of them vote, and some sign up for the military.
Again...how much are we spending NOW?
http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock About $40 billion according to this rather biased website. Now think about the lost productivity from having tens of millions additional crackheads.
tens of millions?
O'RLY?
Huh...wasn't this the logic of Prohibition?
Because more buy their beer from Al Capone than Budweiser? Nucky Thompson supplies your whiskey not Jack Daniels?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
As I mentioned above, even if drugs are legalized, there would be severe restrictions on their purchase and use, which means there would still be an important role for the black market.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
After prohibition was implemented alcohol continued to be consumed. However, how much compared to pre-Prohibition levels remains unclear. Studies examining the rates of cirrhosis deaths as a proxy for alcohol consumption estimated a decrease in consumption of 10-20%.[4][5][6] One study reviewing city-level drunkenness arrests came to a similar result.[7] And, yet another study examining "mortality, mental health and crime statistics" found that alcohol consumption fell, at first, to approximately 30 percent of its pre-Prohibition level; but, over the next several years, increased to about 60-70 percent of its pre-prohibition level.[8]Quote:
Originally Posted by Veldan Rath
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol...er_prohibition
And?
Prohibition reduced drinking...then it went back up...with the extra benefit of empowering Al Capone and others...
All that research seems to show is that prohibition caused people to be more cautious with the drinking so they wouldn't get busted. Sorta like illegal drugs, especially pot, seem to be handled currently by its less than insane users.
I don't see how a portion of the taxes from the sales of drugs couldn't be used to support social programs to keep the drug use at responsible levels.
Isn't portugal doing pretty good with that idea right now?
Booze isn't comparable to other drugs either. Most people I've met throughout high school and college have no problem with drinking or cannabis but they know to stay the hell away from heroine, cocaine and other much harder drugs. I'm all for legalizing marijuana because not only can do we save a shit-ton of money in the drug war, but we undermine the Cartels, gang violence and the usage of hard drugs decreases dramatically. The only people who lose are the Cartels and South American mafias and it puts them in a position that completely obliterates them. Either they crumble from lack of sales or they get nailed when they come out in the open to go "legit". Unless you're a paid-off politician, I see no valid reason to not want to do this.
Cause HORDES of new MJ users will be spontaneously created!
Why would there be severe restrictions on their purchase and use if legal? Legalise, set the restrictions to the same as tobacco and let Phillip Morris replace the gangsters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
How would they not be horrified? Black markets for abortions are at an all time high when abortion is illegal, the same is true for drugs. If it's legalized many more supplies will get into the game, driving the price way down, (thus cutting into the profits of the drug lords), it'll also push many citizens to get it from the more convienient, and safer route of buying it from a legal vendor.Quote:
Yeah, those drug lords would be horrified from the resulting higher demand for their products
It's legal here, last time I checked we have one of the lower MJ smoker levels around. Definitely lower than the UK< and lower than the USA too IIRC. Of course our problem is that the supply side is neither legalized nor tightly regulated controlled - it's just ignored.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veldan Rath
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
That's just restricting sales to adults. What about the quality of the "product" itself? Legal marijuana would need to be approved by the FDA, just like any other consumable food or drug.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
SO what kind of extra restrictions would you be thinking of?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
You are somewhat right here - recently they tried to make buying more restricted here. The result is that the cities where it has been implemented report up to a threefold increase in drugs related nuisances, arrests, etc., and all major cities where it is yet to be implemented oppose it. Of course all mayors opposed it all the time because it's a rather stupid law, but that didn't stop the national government from implementing it anyway.. but the government's changed now, so maybe it will be cancelled after all?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Any legislation should treat it just like we do now. Otherwise some of the benefits of legalizing the drug won't occur.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
And do you really deny that there are people that just engage in a behavior because it is illegal?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Which group do you think is bigger? After all, look at the amount of murders, rapes, and robberies taking place in society just because they're illegal. :bored:Quote:
Originally Posted by earthJoker
1. weed is legal here, fewer people use it than in neighbouring countries. And I ask again: what kind of extra measures were you thinking of?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
So you're recognizing the validity of the FDA, after all. Wasn't that one of the federal agencies you wanted to scrap? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Not scrap but I disagree with the FDA being too strict on experimental drugs. If a doctor and a patient want to try something unproven...that should be their choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Decriminalise drug use, say experts after six-year study
Interesting article, and I hope the study's recommendations are put into effect.
Will take a lot to convince the Daily Mail readers of this country (ie the majority) that this is a good idea though.