It's a stupid question with an obvious answer, but let's see what the poll says.
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It's a stupid question with an obvious answer, but let's see what the poll says.
You might be better off asking which is more important.
People with the most money are the most valued. Followed by the people who make the income and tax rules. Then lobbyists and corporate lawyers, the ones who maneuver for monied interest.
Without money, I can't make it rain
Is importance real?Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Is value real?Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Have you tried?Quote:
Originally Posted by Knux897
I'm confused then. Is this a stoner thread? :confused:
Of course money has a value, and value is real. Just because it's relative doesn't make it non-existent.....
This is not a stoner thread. Value is ostensible. Are people?Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Can you maybe post something longer than one sentence that doesn't really say anything, Being? I don't understand what you want to talk about. :confused:
Can something contrived be considered real?Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Sure. Why wouldn't it be REAL? I can trade you my pooka shell necklace for a bottle of rum, both have a value. If you really want my pooka shells more than your rum or think it's and equal value barter....Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
Yeah but aren't you a Solipsist, eyecandy? This thread could get really strange. :)
Does the difference in value exist when the rum is gone?Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Depends on what I do with the rum. Maybe I use it to cook with, a little at a time, and others love my cooking and give me other things in exchange. Then I can get more rum, or move onto a rare fruit to put in recipes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
Or I could use it to sterilize my knife before I cut off that nasty growth on a guy's leg.
Just because it's eventually consumed doesn't mean it disappeared or isn't REAL. It takes a new form or shape, and new value.
I really don't know what you're asking though. Virtual value? Representative value?
Does my money in the bank mean it's not REAL just because it isn't really a little box with my name on it, holding coins and tangible things? I get a statement, representing what's in there. I can trade that around without having to use REAL coins.
Just like I'm pretty sure you PEOPLE are real, by reading what's typed. It represents a real person, even if I can't see or touch you. You could die and evaporate tomorrow, but that doesn't mean you weren't real. :confused:
"People" has a an obvious and generally accepted definition. In this community, "money" has several different generally accepted definitions. And "real", of course, can be interpreted in slightly different but meaningful ways depending on the context. So define your terms.
If you remove the ability of money to be exchanged, world economy would be an online game, like Eve Online.
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BBC: Billions stolen in online robbery:
Space trading game Eve Online has suffered a virtual version of the credit crunch.
BBC: Money matters in Eve Online game :
But the harsh realities of space commerce have not lead Dr Gudmundsson to embrace Eve style laissez-faire economics in the real world. "It has sharpened my view on neoclassical economics, at the same time I do see the faults of that system. Personally I am very fond of the Scandinavian model, a good combination of healthy competition whereas the government helps those in need."
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Money is no longer paper and coins, it is a magnetic signal.
If your account had 3 extra zeros, you'd be 1000 times richer. This number is just a score, like in Pacman.
People live and die, kill and get killed for just a concept.
If you ever imagined to be trapped in a videogame where you are powerless to escape, welcome to world economy.
Money isn't real anymore. It is quasimoney, its essence, which is only a concept. But even money has no value by itself. If you print lots of quasidollars, dollar value will fall, so your dollars become devaluated. There is no universal value since money can be created.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Money is an instrument of social control. If I have money, I can control society more than if I have no money. You could pay someone to kill and he will be under your control. A poor starved person may be willing to obey for a low wage since money is the obstacle between him and food at the supermarket.
Banks have become a monopoly that controls money supply.
Value is relative, contrived, ostensible. Rum is real.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Can't say that I have ever imagined that. Also wouldn't call that very representative of The World Economy.Quote:
Originally Posted by ar81
I could be persuaded to imagine being the player, but that means I can exit, shut down, turn it off. Or play a different game. If I don't like virtual or digital, I can pull out a game board or deck of cards, things I hold in my hands and don't 'disappear' when I turn off the computer.
Is this thread about defining Real as only things we can see and touch....and only those things have value.....? That makes no sense. I'm positive there are billions of people "out there", even tho I've never seen or touched them.
edit to Being: rum is a real physical thing, but if I don't value it for anything, then it's just junk.
No, I'm not. Nor am I a narcissist. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Now you're getting it; value is not real. Took you long enough. :haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
Value is Real. Seems what you're trying to say is that people often value their own money over valuing other people, unless they can make them more money. You could have just said so instead of turning this into a guessing game.
And then she steps back...:(Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Value is contrived. :mad:
You never touch money. A credit card is not money, just a carrier. A bill or a coin are just a carrier too.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
No, as LF said, you didn't define your terms. For all anyone could tell from reading this, maybe you wanted to talk about abortion, or welfare, or medicine, or war....:donkey:Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
To me it seems the question is self-defining; which is real, people or money? How many definitions of real can be applied to it? :bulb:Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
I think value is all in our heads, as a cultural collective. After all, wtf is so valuable about a diamond??? Oooh, sparkly. :gaga:Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Are you less real because we're talking in a virtual medium?Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
Are you less valuable because your existence is only represented in this digital reality?
I thought you were on a rant about VALUE. Jesus man, just spit it out!
This is not a pass or fail exercise. It is possible to pass but impossible to fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
what? grrr, take that to the singles or doubles threads then (another thing I don't really understand....)
:(
VALUE is not all in our heads. Diamonds are valuable because they're hard to mine, very hard to craft (just ask Bitter), and only the descriminating eye can tell if it's cubic zirconia (synthetic). Diamonds are used in special tools because they can cut glass and other materials, without being destroyed. ie they've been around 'forever' and last longer. Diamond dust is probably also valuable. At least it can be formed into another useful compound, unlike other fossil products that become pollution when burned....?
No, this is a valid discussion. Value is only in our heads. If we don't exist does value?Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Off topic -- Like OG said, diamonds are shiny.
People is not real, people ARE real.
People are a group and a group is real. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
Never said this wasn't a valid (or potentially valuable) discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
We do exist, others used to but they're dead, life is real. Value is in our heads only because our minds change over time.
Which brings me to Occam's Razor, cut to the chase. Time is valuable, but how is time defined? It's limited as a resource, it exists outside ourselves, even tho we spend vast amounts of time trying to define and conserve it, working around it/with it....is time just money?
Am I 'wasting time' by talking about time's value, on a lazy Sunday?
is this some sort of retarded argument intended to justify the summary dismissal of values and opinions with which you disagree?
Did you mean me or Being?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
I've been fairly well caught up in the contextual meanings of time, value, people, and money. From our healthcare reform debate to our financial reform debate......I see them as all interconnected concepts. Couple that with all the countries with budget deficits and growing populations of elders, fights about taxes-liberty/freedom-sssocialism, and it takes on its own life.
Value IS all in our heads. A diamond is useless. If I you were stranded alone out in the middle of the Alaskan Wilderness, with just the clothes you're wearing right now, what would you rather have - a billion dollars in diamonds or a Satellite phone, camping gear, and food for a month? Value is only what some idiot is willing to pay for something and what people are willing to pay is based on cultural context. It isn't set in stone, its based mostly on collective opinioni. Ask anyone trying to sell a house these days. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by GGT
I obviously mean boing
choobs, you forget Carbon. Alaska has carbon that's mine-able as oil. It's not just about diamonds as engagement rings ya know....
Unless you want to say only the commodities of food and shelter have inherent value due to their immediacy. I tried a thread about that, Pursuits. Didn't go very far.
:noob:
Yes, Chaloobi would assemble a giant oil-drill and set up a plant and --> --> ... --> -->
... --> --> buy food and clothes and finally flee Alaska
What's that got to do with people and money in context of survival? He landed me in Alaska against my will. Flawed from the onset.