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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeb
Man receives acclaim and an award for doing nothing more than he should do.
Why?
Have we really reached a point where dishonesty/theft is expected? Is the norm?
And therefore when someone is honest, it is unusual, and they become worthy of awards?
This man did the right thing. So what. His actions are comment-worthy, perhaps, and nothing more.
I understand what you're saying Tim but honesty should be lauded and it should be a good example to others and if that means getting an award then surely that can't be a bad thing right?
Sorta OT but similar.
I had an incident a couple of years ago where I withdrew $100 from an ATM and when I reached down to take the money there was a bundle of notes all blocked up in the slot. I was worried I wouldn't get my cash so I sort of fiddled around with the cash until it pulled free and out came not just my $100 but another $370.
The bank was closed and I was on my way to work (6am) and couldn't do much else so I just went to work. At 9am I rang the bank and told my story to an employee and said I wanted to hand the money in. What happened next was bizarre, I was shuffled through half a dozen different bank employees and each one said more or less the same thing "Why are you giving it back? We don't have a way of taking it back. We don't know what to do!"
I was giving it back because:
a) It wasn't mine.
b) I was damn sure it belonged to some poor bastard that withdrew the cash and never received it and thought he/she would also be calling the bank any minute.
c) I was pretty sure there was a camera at the ATM and it would have seen me struggling to pull out my cash only to end up with a bundle.
Anyway I had to go into a different bank branch to hand the money over, it was a nightmare that took over an hour of my time and required the signing of statutory declarations and all sorts of crap. The bank said it had never happened - nobody had ever handed them money under these circumstances before so they simply didn't have a process. Apparently the money didn't technically belong to the bank, it belonged to CHUBB security because they run the ATM's and CHUBB also didn't know what to do with the money.
I don't recall anyone even thanking me, mostly I was just causing problems for them by being an honest, law abiding citizen...
This is strange thinking, to me. Good actions should always be rewarded if possible, even in a good society. If I have great kids I'm not going to one day suddenly stop lauding them for their good deeds. We live in a society where there are strong incentives to shaft others, and it's only right that we encourage people to do the right thing in such a world.
Rewarding good behavior is much more effective than punishing bad behavior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
Well this is the thing. This isn't 'good' behaviour. This is (what should be) default behaviour.Quote:
Originally Posted by littlelolligagged
Here's how I see a simplified behaviour scale in this context:
Bad behaviour: Taking the $50k for yourself
Default behaviour (neither good nor bad): Returning the $50k to rightful owner/handing it in.
Good behaviour: Donating $50k of your own cash to a homeless shelter.
Why is returning someone else's property a 'good' thing? It's not yours, give it to whomever owns it! :confused:
Awards and acclaim should be for those who do things out of the ordinary - beyond normal, expected behaviour.
I don't see why one should be lauded for doing nothing more than what is expected of one.
Probably because you're British :noob: the default, expected behaviour in this is not necessarily to hand back the cash.
Hm.
How deeply depressing that people view this as unexpected and abnormal. :(
Look, even if it had been expected and normal, I don't see why it shouldn't be lauded. That's the bit I don't get. Why be so stingy with praise??Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
Oh wait, I get it, this is because you don't want burger-munching fatties on Praise Mountain, isn't it ;)
A pat on the back. Well done mate for handing in the cash. No worries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
But awards, governmental ceremonies, newspaper articles? Just for handing in someone else's cash? :bulb:
Guess we'll have to disagree. :)
blblblblblblblbllblblblblblbQuote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
:p
Default behaviour isn't good behaviour?Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
That's all I need to know about your contry's conditions.
It's not like Pakistanis often find 50k USD in cash lying about. It's an extraordinary situation :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
Neither good nor bad. In this context.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro
What's 'my' country, and what does that have to do with anything?Quote:
That's all I need to know about your contry's conditions.
Extraordinary situation, ordinary behaviour. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
How can you say that without knowing?
Say what without knowing what?
Say what is ordinary behaviour in extraordinary situations.
Well that's kinda the whole point of this thread.
Handing back cash is default. Expected. What I would hope to be ordinary behaviour (regardless of how unusual this situation may be in Pakistan or any other country with widespread poverty)
But from the responses I'm getting here, it seems people think handing back cash that isn't theirs to be extraordinary.
If I find a bag with $50,000 you all can fully expect me to turn in said bag full of $30,000. Its the right and expected thing to do.
Okay, if this had been "Pakistani man risks own life to rescue baby from burning building", would you be okay with a bit of a circus?
That's a bit like the wallet full of cash and credit cards that you hand in to the police as a wallet full of credit cards...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Oh and Tim have you ever heard the saying "No good deed goes unrewarded." - you are saying that this guy who earns ~$200 per month that found $50,000 cash in a bag and handed it in did not do a good deed.
I think you might need to re-think the level of "good" in your "default" act.
:pQuote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Absolutely. Because he is risking his life. That is out of the ordinary behaviour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
And he should rightly receive government ceremonies and be lauded in that situation.
Are you setting up a false dichotomy on purpose, or just reading what you want to read? Why should only extra-ordinary behaviour warrant attention? Additionally, certainly in this case it is in the interests of the local populace to award this guy with trumpets blaring because a) good publicity for them as a tourist spot 2) maybe just maybe other hotel workers etc will think twice before bagging someone else's money, all without lopping anyone's arms off!Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
How should society respond to "good" deeds? Passivity or positive reinforcement? What, exactly, is lost here if people note that someone behaved in a positive manner, and possibly even reward him for it? I'm honestly baffled by your reaction to this. Is positivity or societal encouragement some kind of zero-sum game? :confused:
I just couldn't see what the fanfare was about. At all. I really, really don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessus
I see handing in someone else's cash, which is something I have done (wallet with cash found on train), to be perfectly normal.
~
I'll try to explain my thinking, I guess I'm doing a bad job of it here.
If a man handing in cash is treated as extraordinary, like it is here with fanfare and ceremony, then does that mean not handing in cash is normal, ordinary, expected.
And I started the thread to gauge that.
Make more sense?
I don't think I completely agree. I think the fanfare is because most people wouldn't do the normal ordinary thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
If people did the normal ordinary action, the world wouldn't be in the state its in.
People already know what is expected, doesn't mean its followed through with.
I think I understood your thinking to start with, but I don't see how that follows. But now I'm not sure if I can explain where I experience the disconnect. :bulb:Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
When you're leaving a store and let's pretend you're in a time warp to the sixties before every damn hypermarket had Star Trek doors, and someone held the door open for you. Would you say thank you?
I guess I don't understand why a positive deed should be ignored any more than a negative one. And I guess by that I'm implicitly assuming that the "norm" is doing neither.
There is an argument to be made that the man has reached no higher station in life because of his honest nature. Honesty is nothing but a disadvantage in a world where people routinely lie, cheat and steal to get ahead and face no adverse consequence. This man's a good citizen, he knows his place and stays in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
Quote:
You had something to hide
Should have hidden it, shouldn't you
Now you're not satisfied
With what you're being put through
It's just time to pay the price
For not listening to advice
And deciding in your youth
On the policy of truth
Such thinking is certainly helpful to those willing to shaft the rest of us to get ahead. You're a good citizen too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
And this man gave up a chance at a significantly wealthier life. Do you make $253 a month? Have you ever found a wallet with $50,000? I'd say that this is almost the lost-wallet equivalent of "man risks own life to save baby from burning house". Or getting a "THANK YOU!" from a whole society for holding open a door :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
PS. If you found a wallet full of cash and got it back to the owner then I would totally cheer you on :p I know you'd get embarrassed by it, but I'm not a Brit so it doesn't bother me.
How about this: Fuck whoever owns that money, they should have been a better steward of their property. Fools and their money, easily parted eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
Aggressive Behaviour: Keep the money, start the business you always wanted to with it. Grow your business and provide incomes to half a dozen others who used to be poor. Use the proceeds to provide yourself and your family a higher standard of living than you ever could have had working in a hotel. Provide your kids with higher education so your following generation does even better than you have. And later on, if you want to clear your conscience, send the moron who left his money in the hotel room a check in a "Thank You" card.
EDIT: Reality check . . . It might be an important factor that, considering the amount, whoever left that money behind would probably return to look for it. And it wouldn't be hard for the hotel management, and the local police force, to figure out who took it. There really wasn't much choice in this matter, he had to give it back or face losing his job or even being jailed.
If you want to encourage a behavior, you reward it. That is very basic psychology. How you care to characterize the behavior "good, neutral, meaningless, etc" is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is if you want people to do it. In which case, the response should be rewarding in some manner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
It's not the act that's extraordinary and getting fanfare, it's the amount. Which I do hope you recognize is extraordinarily large for "lost money."Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
Sounds like a nice hotel. :) I've left cameras and pillows behind in hotel rooms, and damn if any cleaning person ever admitted to finding them, even within an hour of checkout. (Who wants a used pillow? eww)
The hotel obviously wants to praise their employee, both as PR for their brand name, and retaining a reliable/trustworthy worker.
Made me wonder why the Japanese man who got his $50,000 returned didn't go to the press, calling the finder a hero, and giving him a nice finder's fee. That would have been a good deed.
He probably did the right thing from a practical point of view, too. It would be very difficult to explain why you've suddenly got $50,000 you didn't have before, which is a sum of money that could go a very long way in India. This way, he gets a reward he can actually use, plus a reputation for honesty.
The interplay between the amount of money and whether or not a person returns it is quite interesting. Obviously, on one level there's a competition between the individual's principles and the financial reward: whether or not the money they get is worth more than the peace of mind they get from returning it. But OTOH if the sum is small enough, it's not actually worth the bother of returning it. If he'd found a $5 note, what then? It'd have cost more to return it to the owner - he might as well have taken it. Arguably, it takes more moral courage to return a sum of between $10-$50 than anything larger, since the sum is still significant, yet small enough for someone to talk themselves into thinking it won't be missed and is still in "change down the sofa" territory.
Probably depends on the person's conscience. Is that what you mean by "moral courage", Steely?
My son lost his wallet, with about ten bucks in it. He had no idea where or when it was lost. Then he got a note from the school secretary, a message and phone number from the man who'd found his wallet. He'd used the student ID (basically a picture with his name and the school's name) to look up the school's phone number (from NJ to PA). Then he mailed the wallet with all its contents after we called and gave him our mailing address. I thought that was really nice.
Yep this is a discussion I've had with friends, in a "what would you do" kind of way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
Finding a few notes on the street. What is the amount it takes for you to hand it in to the cops, the amount below which you pocket it?
Around £50 is my write-off point.
If I lose that amount or less in the street, I'd write it off as bad lack.
If I lose more than that amount, I'd pop into the local police station to see if it'd been handed in.
At what point does one expect money to be handed in, in the context of finding it in the street, rather than at work, say.