Quote:
Originally Posted by
Steely Glint
I can't remember what your position on this is, but most Leavers do not want to be part of the customs union, hence - hard border.
No customs union, just a trade deal.
Quote:
You appear to have lost the thread of the conversation, so allow me to remind you. I said a *deal* without the backstop is not possible, not that *Brexit* is not possible without the backstop, since you were trying to blame the situation on May, rather geopolitical realities.
Of course a deal without a backstop is possible. The backstop only came about because of the shittiness of May.
Quote:
What, you think a bunch of old provos are going to rise up against the Irish government because they took too hard a position against the British? Come on dude, they don't have a bunch of unionists living in territory they administer who are going to get annoyed at the border, it's us that have the republicans.
It would definately hurt them economically, but it's not going to cause civil problems like it will in Northern Ireland.
So we deal with it.
Quote:
The GFA has a provision that there be no security apparatus at the border, which will likely be interpreted to mean customs checks etc.
So don't put in place customs checks. We've already said that even in a no deal scenario we won't put in customs checks in NI. If the EU wants to put in customs checks that is their choice. Except the Irish have also said they won't put in customs checks even in a no deal scenario. Which is why this is total bullshit. The GFA is being abused to force us into a bad deal. Supposedly we can have no deal at all without customs checks and without a backstop, but we can't get a good deal without them and without a backstop? Bullshit.
Quote:
EU law doesn't require the backstop per say but it (along with.. just the basic concept of what a free trade area is) does mean that the choice is either a border between NI and Ireland or a border between NI and the rest of the UK.
Or a free trade deal.
Quote:
You keep talking about negotiation, but you haven't actually said what concessions you'd give to the Irish to get them to shift their positions, yet you've already decreed that the backstop is completely unacceptable. Time and again, you've claimed issues with Brexit is that the other side needs to 'negotiate', but your idea of this seems to be the other side just unconditionally gives us what we want.
A negotiation is we give them what they want, and they give us what we want. Not they take what they want and tell us we have no choice.
What will we give them? Free trade, an open border, free movement, money. Is that not enough to start with?
Quote:
This is amazing. You actually sound like a member of komsomol earnestly explaining that there ARE NO problems in the Soviet Union, like no food shortages or anything, everything is going fine, Comrad Stalin is a genius and also all the problems in the Soviet union such as the food shortages are actually caused by counter-revolutionary traitors and western spies, and anyway a little breadline never hurt anyone.
I can almost see the little red neckerchief.
And who is Comrade Stalin in this scenario? Which leader of our country am I slavishly backing?
As far as I can recall I've had nothing positive to say about Theresa May. Who in your scenario is surely the Tsar rather than Stalin.