Covid-19 as Reichstag Fire

Separating from covid-19 thread as this isn't about the health issues but this story looks very concerning. Hungary basically just became a dictatorship, with no time limit applied.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but that it absolutely illegal as an EU member state, correct?

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Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that it absolutely illegal as an EU member state, correct?

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Yes, but so is other stuff Hungary has done in recent years like the government sacking judges critical of the government etc

Hungary can't be expelled as a member of the EU but they can have their rights suspended as one (probably a blind eye will be turned to this during the pandemic, but after the pandemic if issues remain ...) but the issue is that it takes a unanimous agreement to do so - even one nation can veto it. As it stands Poland are also violating other rules and the Visegrad nations have basically unofficially teamed up to say they'd veto any of the Visegrad Group being suspended.

World War C!

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

Yes, but so is other stuff Hungary has done in recent years like the government sacking judges critical of the government etc

Hungary can't be expelled as a member of the EU but they can have their rights suspended as one (probably a blind eye will be turned to this during the pandemic, but after the pandemic if issues remain ...) but the issue is that it takes a unanimous agreement to do so - even one nation can veto it. As it stands Poland are also violating other rules and the Visegrad nations have basically unofficially teamed up to say they'd veto any of the Visegrad Group being suspended.

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So if I understand the rules correctly any 2 countries can buddy up and the EU cannot do jack about it?

Well, they can't act directly against them in that one specific way mentioned. They can't put a country in their "time-out" penalty box. That's not the same thing as being completely powerless to do anything about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire

:popcorn:

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Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

Well, they can't act directly against them in that one specific way mentioned. They can't put a country in their "time-out" penalty box. That's not the same thing as being completely powerless to do anything about it.

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Within the EU structure? What penalties can be assessed against member states w/o everyone expect target ted state being on board?

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

Yes, but so is other stuff Hungary has done in recent years like the government sacking judges critical of the government etc

Hungary can't be expelled as a member of the EU but they can have their rights suspended as one (probably a blind eye will be turned to this during the pandemic, but after the pandemic if issues remain ...) but the issue is that it takes a unanimous agreement to do so - even one nation can veto it. As it stands Poland are also violating other rules and the Visegrad nations have basically unofficially teamed up to say they'd veto any of the Visegrad Group being suspended.

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I wouldn't be so sure that Poland will back Hungary in this case. Poland still wants to be seen as supporting democracy. This move was too blatantly authoritarian. Some Polish officials already said as much.

It's not a foregone conclusion what is legal and what isn't
The EU is not a federal state and member states have a lot of leeway in how they organize their government. That said if a member is found in violation of certain basic principles the EU has ways of making those members reconsider their decision. Withdrawal of voting rights is absolutely the last resort for the simple reason that it in effect suspends the sovereignty of the member (it no longer has a say in how the pooled sovereignty is wielded).

There are less blunt tools that the Commission can bring to the battlefield, mostly these have got to do with pressuring the member financially. That can be tremendously effective. Especially if the member is dependent on getting funds from Brussels. Hungary has been known to backtrack after going too far.