Freedom Matters

Wanted to take the covid-19 pandemic in another direction.

"Live Free or Die" and "Don't Tread on Me" come to mind. They're American sayings that reflect the Individualism that's an inherent part of our Constitution....but don't necessarily represent the ideals for the Common Good, let alone the *United States* as a Republic.

I'll probably get bad grades from Loki for how I framed the democracy dilemma, but I still want to hear how people conceptualize this.

For example, I have no problem with gov't agencies limiting religious services during a global pandemic, and don't think that's undermining "freedom of religion", but others vehemently disagree and continue to hold religious services where hundreds of people gather.....and then return to the community at large.

I think it's delusional and dangerous to disregard science and presume that religious Faith gives them immunity. Policies that give religious "exemptions" are just as bad. :confused:

Also, I'd love to protest right about now, but understand that large gatherings are prohibited, for good reasons. WI voting aside, I wondered how others are squaring these competing "freedom" principles....

It's not just an American or Christian dilemma: Is "Asking" good enough?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52118803

I expected more comments, especially after Easter Sunday. :noob:


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...virus-outbreak

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...navirus-orders

Many US states have protests now. Open the economy, stop holding us prisoner, the cure is worse than the virus, even placards saying "Fauci is wrong".

They remind me of the Tea Party protests, but look a lot like Trump rallies. In PA the militia men showed up at the capitol with their guns, ready to protect the freeedom of workers protesting their "right" to work. :bulb:

Meanwhile, Trump is tweeting "Liberate" (to a few states with Democrat Governors)....in direct conflict with his own covid-19 "Presidential Guidelines". Are Americans really this stupid and gullible? Is this what freeedom means? :confused:

Its fun how the MSM had an issue with these protests but during the same period you have protests going on to stop Rent and demand more direct distributions instead of bailing our corps and the media doesn't give that sort of the thing the same negative coverage. Hell there are protests in Israel against their PM that was given favorable coverage. Media shouldn't but as usual picks sides.

Fox news is also "MSM". Funny how those trolls pick sides, then project their bias onto every other journalist just trying to report the facts, and holding power to account. Symptoms of the Trump Propaganda Doctrine? Take no responsibility or accountability, just call everything a hoax, and "lead" by dividing? :donkey:

We didn't see Italians protesting in the streets....when the Vatican cancelled all masses across the globe.

We didn't have Americans protesting in the streets....when the NBA cancelled their season, followed by other professional sports leagues, or even the Olympics doing the same.

But now we've got protestors pitting medical science against government agencies, and calling it a fight for Freeedom? Because people can't get a tattoo or have their nails done? It's a weird and stupid argument that doesn't make sense during a respiratory virus Pandemic when PPE (medical grade face masks) are in short supply.

The folks who wanted to open beaches (because they're "essential" for health) aren't following social distance guidelines. They're going to get contaminated and be pre-symptomatic or asymptomatic spreaders. Yeah, kiss your kids and go shopping. Protest your "right" to visit grandma in the nursing home and kiss her, too. Feel FREE to spread your germs around and overwhelm the EMS and hospital workers. Bitch about teh gummint telling you what to do. Treat it like any other disaster and whine about local ordinances and federal guidelines, demonize FEMA and the CDC, and taxation in general.

If you're bathed in the blood of Jesus Christ, that's all you need to be immune from the perils of modern society. Anyone who says different just wants to separate you from your Faith, and deprive you of your God-given freeeedoms. They'll force your kids to get vaccines, and make them autistic. They'll take away your guns, and use your tax dollars to fund abortions, too! Don't trust experts or the librul elite agenda, the gummint is just a cabal for the Deep State. Fox News and Lewk say so, and you can trust them. They're pro-life. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Its fun how the MSM had an issue with these protests but during the same period you have protests going on to stop Rent and demand more direct distributions instead of bailing our corps and the media doesn't give that sort of the thing the same negative coverage. Hell there are protests in Israel against their PM that was given favorable coverage. Media shouldn't but as usual picks sides.

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Your freaking president and favorite TV network actively supported these protests and gave them the most attention. You're getting into QAnon territory.

Lewk's kind of Freeeedom means never having to account for denial, delusions, duplicity, or deflection. Yet here we are, arguing with a troll. :(

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Its fun how the MSM had an issue with these protests but during the same period you have protests going on to stop Rent and demand more direct distributions instead of bailing our corps and the media doesn't give that sort of the thing the same negative coverage.

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Were these protests attacking nurses? Blocking access to hospitals? Violating stay at home orders? Using intimidation and threats of violence to earn their 15 minutes of fame? Astroturf campaigns disguised as grassroots?

We don't expect much from you, especially after the ignorance and stupidity you displayed in the BLM thread, but you can't lump everything as being the same just by calling them all "protests"

Those "grass roots" protests turn out to be incited by right-wing, anti-government political groups on Facebook and Fox News.
https://time.com/5825840/anti-quaran...anizers-trump/

Stephen Moore has been a Trump Whisperer, talking as if the US lives in a bubble, separated from the rest of the world. And a civil war between red & blue states is just weeks away:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/coron...ime-story.html

AG Barr says these stay-at-home state orders are like *house arrest*, and the DoJ will support any law suits against states.

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The Justice Department did ask Congress for expanded emergency powers soon after the coronavirus crisis began, even requesting the ability to detain people indefinitely without trial. Even so, Barr said in the Hewitt interview, "Our federal constitutional rights don't go away in an emergency."

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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/william...ction-threats/

And Texas Lt. Governor said "there are more important things than living" :picard:

Interesting that even State governance is seen as tyranny during this pandemic. People just want the Freeedom to act stupid...and don't give a fuck how it affects others? Open up the dine-in restaurants, hair salons and tattoo parlors, demand the right to be stupid (and defy CDC or state health dept. guidelines).

No wonder it took so long for airlines to move from designated "smoking sections" to an outright ban on in-flight smoking. :rolleyes:

Public Health is seen as an intrusions on individual freeedoms. yee haw for cowboy capitalism, USA #1! :cheerleader:

https://www.ydr.com/story/news/crime/2020/05/10/defiance-round-clock-diner-opens-dine-service-sunday/3105326001/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rs/3105755001/