Why wasn't she already in jail?

[Lewkowski]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_467134.html

***********************

Crystal Mangum, the woman who accused three Duke lacrosse players of raping her almost four years ago, was arrested. She is charged with with five counts of arson, assault, ID theft, resisting arrest, three counts of child endangerment, and attempted murder.

According to the police, the 33-year-old woman fought with her boyfriend, Milton Walker, and physically assaulted him before lighting his clothes on fire in a bathtub. Three children, ages 10, 9 and 3, were evacuated from the apartment along with the two adults.

***********************

Falsely accusing someone of rape should require prison time. And see look what happens... this piece of scum is still out of control, setting a fire in an apartment with KIDS inside.

[Ominous Gamer]

Damn, that was four years ago...

On an almost related note. Today's paper is talking about a man that spent 14 years in jail, is suspected of killing his son, and was let out on $1,000 bail after getting arrested for violating an injunction from his exgirlfriend.

Two days later he killed his exgirlfriend, the mother of the son he is suspected of killing.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/...cle1074278.ece

[LittleFuzzy]

Why was she not in jail? Because "doing something Lewk disapproves of" is not, never will be, and never should be a criminal offense. I'll keep repeating it until you either learn or finally shut up, civil and criminal law are not the same.

[ImAnOgre]

While many of us do not agree with Lewk... the lady filed a fake police report, which is a crime itself, but shouldn't slanderous comments that can fuck up someone's life so bad require more of a sentence then just a slap on the wrist? Heaven forbid someone ever accuse you of rape Fuzzy, and then you not only have to spend money defneding your name, but you'll have to waste countless hours to clear yourself of wrongdoing, and there will always be a stigma associated with your name which could influence potential jobs n the future.

[LittleFuzzy]

While many of us do not agree with Lewk... the lady filed a fake police report, which is a crime itself, but shouldn't slanderous comments that can fuck up someone's life so bad require more of a sentence then just a slap on the wrist? Heaven forbid someone ever accuse you of rape Fuzzy, and then you not only have to spend money defneding your name, but you'll have to waste countless hours to clear yourself of wrongdoing, and there will always be a stigma associated with your name which could influence potential jobs n the future.

Does filing a fake police report result in a sentence in the state penitentiary? No. It's a misdemeanor, if a prosecutor ever chooses to lay the charge. Guess how often they consider that worth their time. If you want more than a slap on the wrist, launch a civil suit requesting compensatory and punitive damages that you feel are high enough for what was done. Slander is not a criminal issue and there is no reason it should be viewed as one. If it were, you can be sure that it will be abused systemically abused and have a rather worse effect on society than slander itself.

[ImAnOgre]

So.... let me see if I understand your view, someone should be able to accuse you of a crime so harmful, that when you finally clear your name, nothing should happen to them?

Civil suits only work when the person has money, you can't get blood from a turnip. In this case, wasn't the girl from an already poor background, and this was her way of trying to extort money? (memory is hazy)

And please do tell me how such a system could be abused? I can see how it would keep someone from accusing you of rape, and no one wants to have to defend themselves of such a charge.

[ImAnOgre]

DOUBLE POST ALERT!!!

Who was it who said it be better that 10 guilty men go free then 1 innocent man go to jail (or soemthing similar).

When you are accused of a crime such as rape, the stigma that is attached to that charge is almost as bad as being found guilty.

[Flixy]

Falsely accusing someone of rape should require prison time. And see look what happens... this piece of scum is still out of control, setting a fire in an apartment with KIDS inside.

I support going after people who file false complaints on purpose, but it's hard to prove that. If someone isn't convicted, that merely means they are not considered guilty - which doesn't necessarily mean they are innocent, and even if they are innocent, the complaint doesn't have to be false.

[ImAnOgre]

But in this case, the woman PURPOSESLY lied to accuse the players of rape, this case was such a travesty that the District Attorney was sued and subsequently went to jail. How often do you see the prosecutor going to jail?????

[Steely Glint]

So.... let me see if I understand your view

I think we need a filter which replaces this and other equivalent phrases with "STRAW MAN ARGUEMENT:"

[ImAnOgre]

Are you just to dumb to understand that I was simply asking a question if this was in fact his POV for clarification?

Contrary to popular belief, my ability to read someone's mind isn't as good as yours.

Dumbass.

[Steely Glint]

That must be why you expressed you query in such neutral, non-loaded language.

[Nessus]

Well he's a nice guy, he didn't really mean to use loaded terms

it just kinda happened

All his mates agree with his position, so it can't be wrong!

Dumbass.

[ImAnOgre]

Everything I say is either Nice or Neutral. Even when I call you a dumbass. No reason to be angry, or condescending.

Your inability to read the neutrality of my statements is not my concern.

A long time ago, I lost my temper with Ness. We apologized and now all is well with the world.

[ImAnOgre]

Dumbass.

Back at ya pal.

[Nessus]

Back at ya pal.

Would you say you are composed of rubber, and that I am mostly made of glue?

[ImAnOgre]

Would you say you are composed of rubber, and that I am mostly made of glue?

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Sticks and stones not withstanding...

[Steely Glint]

No reason to be angry, or condescending.

I am neither angry nor condescending.

[ImAnOgre]

I was talking about me. You were the one who said my post lacked neutrality.

[Steely Glint]

Oh.

[ImAnOgre]

Oh.

oh oh oh oh... oh oh oh oh oh...

The Right Stuff.

[Ominous Gamer]

The rape thing happened 4 years ago.

Is Lewk or Orge saying this woman deserved 4 years (and more) in prison for that? Or that a jail sentence would have corrected this woman's behavior?

[RandBlade]

Yes she should have faced jail time - but after 4 years she should have been released.

In the UK we had a famous couple falsely accused of rape - where the accuser did it for profit, intentionally lying then trying to sell her "story" to the papers. She was prosecuted and got a sentance of 2 years in prison IIRC. That is appropriate

[GGT]

How long did (or will) it take for the falsely accused to regain their reputation?

[ImAnOgre]

The rape thing happened 4 years ago.

Is Lewk or Orge saying this woman deserved 4 years (and more) in prison for that? Or that a jail sentence would have corrected this woman's behavior?

I'm not some Old Testament Eye for an Eye type person.... but a jail sentence, at the least, woul have likely made her rethink her actions. For some people it works. For some people it doesn't. At the very least put her on probation, give her an ankle monitor, but does she need to spend time behind bars??? I dunno. Part of me says hell yes, but part of me is compassionate as well as this was a nonviolent crime. Our criminal justice system is fucked up. You can get years for smoking a joint, but say something slanderous about a person that causes the rest of their lives to be fucked up and you can walk????

Something is really fucked up.

How long did (or will) it take for the falsely accused to regain their reputation?

I actually like where this post is going GGT.

[RandBlade]

How long did (or will) it take for the falsely accused to regain their reputation?

For some people forever. There are a number of people out there who think "no smoke without fire", or will believe they "got off on a technicality". Rather than it being a malicious lie.

[Lewkowski]

Why was she not in jail? Because "doing something Lewk disapproves of" is not, never will be, and never should be a criminal offense. I'll keep repeating it until you either learn or finally shut up, civil and criminal law are not the same.

Deliberate false accusations such as rape SHOULD have prison sentences. Yes the bar should be very high to prove it but it should be possible. Examples should be made.

What the hell are they going to get in a civil case against the stupid bitch? She's a low class whore who probably has zilch to her name except her welfare payments.

In the UK we had a famous couple falsely accused of rape - where the accuser did it for profit, intentionally lying then trying to sell her "story" to the papers. She was prosecuted and got a sentance of 2 years in prison IIRC. That is appropriate

Good for the UK! In America the feminists would be all up in arms. Just as they were all read to publicly condemn the Duke players despite the idiotic non-case that was presented.

[LittleFuzzy]

Deliberate false accusations such as rape SHOULD have prison sentences. Yes the bar should be very high to prove it but it should be possible. Examples should be made.

There are only three possible results in the real world to this. One) The bar is indeed very high, there are no prosecutions, and it's a waste of time trying to get it on the books. 2) The bar is fairly high and such prosecutions are only engaged in when it will be politically convenient for a D.A. seeking election. Prostituting criminal law to electioneering is what you ought to be demanding prison sentences for. 3) The bar isn't very high and all you've done is make more crimes go unreported, since now counter-suits aren't just a threatening tactic for civil lawsuits but a way to intimidate people into keeping their mouths shut about criminal offenses.

What the hell are they going to get in a civil case against the stupid bitch? She's a low class whore who probably has zilch to her name except her welfare payments.

And rather than put the homeless in jail, which they must look forward to because they'll get fed, we should just give them all the chair. Death penalty for indigence! I feel so sorry for you that someone already being in a lousy situation leaves you with no tools to harass them. Maybe you should develop a sense of Christian charity, work to improve their lot, so they can actually feel the weight of civil authority when necessary, and just possibly avoid being in that sort of situation to begin with. A bigger hammer is not the solution to all of life's dilemmas.

[RandBlade]

There are only three possible results in the real world to this. One) The bar is indeed very high, there are no prosecutions, and it's a waste of time trying to get it on the books. 2) The bar is fairly high and such prosecutions are only engaged in when it will be politically convenient for a D.A. seeking election. Prostituting criminal law to electioneering is what you ought to be demanding prison sentences for. 3) The bar isn't very high and all you've done is make more crimes go unreported, since now counter-suits aren't just a threatening tactic for civil lawsuits but a way to intimidate people into keeping their mouths shut about criminal offenses.

Why does the bar being high mean that there won't be any prosecutions? The bar should be high in ALL criminal prosecutions. Heck the US has the Death Penalty, is the bar not high for them?

Yes the bar should be high, but in this instance the evidence is there, she should have been prosecuted.

[termite]

Would this apply to all crimes? Why only rape?

Surely if someone knowingly accused you of something illegal that you didn't do and this can be proved in Court then the same principal should apply.

Just because a crime is more abhorrent than another does that mean that a whole new principal of law should be applied?

In Family Law there are horrific accusations (yes false ones too) made by one parent against another on an almost regular basis - do we apply this law here too?

Interesting stuff...

If a woman is raped, the chance of her reporting it, having someone arrested and charged with the crime and eventually convicted is already very low - if the woman thought she would then be accused of making a false accusation, that she could do serious jail time, would she even bother reporting it?

You would hope so.

Sometimes creating a new law to deal with one crime can effect the imposition of other laws.

IMHO I think accusing someone of a crime which you KNOW they didn't commit should be a crime in itself - hard stuff to prove in court though.