NYC: Key to the city, 27 bucks

[Nessus]

Miracle key we bought for $27 controls every NYC elevator, plus subways


The key to the subway is plenty useful aboveground, too.

After revealing that scammers are selling fare-beaters a $27 key that opens subway emergency exits, the Daily News found the key also controls elevators at thousands of city buildings.

The FDNY confirmed the "firemen's service" key - used in emergencies - can call all elevators to the lowest floor and hold them there.

Thousands of firefighters have the keys, which the FDNY has been using for many years, FDNY spokesman Frank Gribbon said.

They work in "tens of thousands of buildings" - including all commercial high-rises, he said.

The News got a key from a Brooklyn man who said he paid a transit worker $27 for a copy, which he used to avoid paying the $2.25 train fare.

A second man busted by cops recently for having one of the keys told the Daily News he bought his copy from a transit worker for about $50.

NYC Transit President Thomas Prendergast said the agency may have to replace the locks on the system's 1,412 gates, which would likely cost more than $1 million, he said.

The agency will talk with the NYPD and MTA police before making such a move, he said.

"If from a security standpoint, and in the interest of protecting the system, its employees and the customers, we have to make that level of expenditure, we will do it," Prendergast said.

Fare-beating costs NYC Transit an estimated $27 million a year.

About 50 people have been arrested since January 2009 for unauthorized possession of the keys.

When NYC Transit installed emergency exit gates in the subways in 2006 and 2007, FDNY officials requested they open with the "firemen's service" key.

City Councilman Peter Vallone (D-Queens), chairman of the Public Safety Committee, said he was even more concerned knowing the key also can be used to control elevators.

"That's not a key I want in unauthorized hands," he said. "We know terrorists are planning attacks on our subways and buildings, and we don't need to have keys that could help them in the wrong hands."

Gribbon downplayed security concerns.

Using a firemen's service key in a commercial high-rise triggers an alarm, Gribbon said.

When all elevators are held in the lobby, firefighters can use the key to maneuver individual elevators, but it requires some know-how and training, he said.

Tee hee

Can't wait for teh terroriztz to get some nukular material

[termite]

As my Grandad used to say:

Originally said by termite's Grandad

"Locks only keep out honest people."

[Ominous Gamer]

Oh how we wish to return to the good old days of turnstile hopping.

[Khendraja'aro]

One of the reasons several (semi-)public buildings and institutions over here are switching to personalized electronic keys. As far as I know, all public schools in Hamburg recently did just such a switch.

[CitizenCain]

One of the reasons several (semi-)public buildings and institutions over here are switching to personalized electronic keys.

Those are usually just as bad (or even worse), but the good news is that it keeps out the riff-raff, while allowing the technically skilled criminal to burglarize the place without worrying about any added security.

[Illusions]

Oh how we wish to return to the good old days of turnstile hopping.

If there is a booth operator there, and they see you, they'll likely report you and you'll have about 2 cops per train car door waiting for you at the next station. Either that or a cop will see you and grab you immediately.

[Khendraja'aro]

Those are usually just as bad (or even worse), but the good news is that it keeps out the riff-raff, while allowing the technically skilled criminal to burglarize the place without worrying about any added security.

Aha. And for that we only have your say-so. I dare say that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[Dreadnaught]

One of the reasons several (semi-)public buildings and institutions over here are switching to personalized electronic keys. As far as I know, all public schools in Hamburg recently did just such a switch.

Aren't they concerned about power outages and the like?

I never knew those keys also made elevators go into firemen mode. I guess it makes sense — in a fire emergency in the subway, the firefighters have to enter quickly and are too laden with equipment to hop a turnstile.

If there is a booth operator there, and they see you, they'll likely report you and you'll have about 2 cops per train car door waiting for you at the next station. Either that or a cop will see you and grab you immediately.

I think you overestimate the ability/responsiveness of the booth operators and the police.

[CitizenCain]

Aha. And for that we only have your say-so. I dare say that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Thanks for sharing that opinion.

[Illusions]

I think you overestimate the ability/responsiveness of the booth operators and the police.

Almost an hour or so after I wrote this I picked my gf up from the LIRR station and she told me how there were some delays due to fire on the 1,2 and 3 line and that they cleared it up pretty quickly after she'd already swiped and walked out...meaning when she went back less than 15 minutes later her monthly card wouldn't let her swipe, so she hopped the turnstile...

...glad I was wrong

[Dreadnaught]

Nice.

[Timbuk2]

Methinks NY needs to install higher turnstiles ...

[Khendraja'aro]

Thanks for sharing that opinion.

Thanks for showing that you have nothing to back up your position. You're always like that - stating that something is rubbish and when called out on it, unable to provide any real facts.

[CitizenCain]

Thanks for showing that you have nothing to back up your position. You're always like that - stating that something is rubbish and when called out on it, unable to provide any real facts.

Thanks for being a clueless, condescending ass, as usual.

Pro tip: "normal" locks are generally not susceptible to brute force hacking, nor do they add *at least* one additional area of vulnerability to defeat the locking mechanism.

(If you can guess/figure out what that one "most common" additional vulnerability for electronic locks is, it'll go a long way to making you look like just an ass, instead of a clueless ass.) So take your condescension, bundle it together with your ignorance and shove the bundle up your ass, sideways.

And don't try to discuss any technical topics again until you have the faintest clue about technology in general.

[Khendraja'aro]

Yes, because Brute Force hacking is sooooo easy and soooo fast.

I mean, have they already hacked WPA2-AES via Brute Force in an acceptable time period?

[CitizenCain]

Yes, because Brute Force hacking is sooooo easy and soooo fast.

I mean, have they already hacked WPA2-AES via Brute Force in an acceptable time period?

Well, as you failed to answer my question, I'll take that as confirmation that you're full of shit (like you did with me), so kindly shut the hell up until you know anything about the topic at hand. And, FYI, the question about WPA2-AES encryption is further proof that you don't know shit about electronic locks, because electronic locks don't use that encryption algorithm, for any number of reasons, all of which I'm sure are way over your head.

Thanks for playing, and always, feel free to try again, once you actually know anything.

[Khendraja'aro]

Of course, they use other encryption algorithms. I took AES as an example for why Brute-Forcing is not half as easy as you make it out to be. Moron.

I mean, you fly in, say: "It doesn't work that way" and STILL have not provided anything substantial other than you moronic say-so.

Brute forcing encryption, indeed. We're not talking about ROT13 here.

[CitizenCain]

Of course, they use other encryption algorithms. I took AES as an example for why Brute-Forcing is not half as easy as you make it out to be. Moron.

No, you took a specific encryption algorithm native to wireless network access, and tried to plaster it over a medium in which it is not used at all (electronic locks), further demonstrating your total ignorance on the matter at hand.

Go on trying to impotently explain it all you want, but the mere fact that you even brought that particular encryption scheme up in relation to electronic locks means you wouldn't know an electronic lock if I was bashing you in the face with it.

I mean, you fly in, say: "It doesn't work that way" and STILL have not provided anything substantial other than you moronic say-so.

Yeah, and being an arrogant asshole about it while continually demonstrating your complete ignorance on the topic is really gonna motivate me to educate you.

Brute forcing encryption, indeed. We're not talking about ROT13 here.

So, I guess you're unaware of the capability to brute force DES [64 bit] (and its related "enhancement," 3DES [128 bit, effective] ), WEP [64 or 128 bit] and WPA-TPIK, [128 bit] to say nothing of older algorithms which have become trivial to brute-force, based even on the capabilities of today's high end desktops. (Come to think of it, I've brute-forced WEP on my 2-3 year old *Tablet*, in under 5 minutes. And I think that thing's packing a mighty 700 Mhz proc... but it might be 800 Mhz too, so again, keep your useless mouth mouth shut until you have a clue, please.)

Fucking dumbass.

[Timbuk2]

[Khendraja'aro]

So, you don't actually don't know anything about MODERN algorithms? Thank you, try again. Have fun brute forcing RSA4096 or ECC in the foreseeable future, without a Quantum Computer.

[Lor]

Can i have some?

[CitizenCain]

So, you don't actually don't know anything about MODERN algorithms? Thank you, try again. Have fun brute forcing RSA4096 or ECC in the foreseeable future, without a Quantum Computer.

And any of this anything to do with your lack of knowledge on electronic locks, how? Oh, right, it doesn't and it's a red herring. (Though, for the record, my desktop PC is encrypted in a triple-cascade scheme of three separate 256 bit ciphers, and based on that alone, I bet I know a hell of a lot more about encryption than you do.)

And, FWIW, DES, 3DES, WEP and WPA-TPIK *are* modern encryption algorithms. And, in point of fact, are much stronger than the encryption schemes used in most electronic locks... when there's actually any encryption at all, which there often isn't. Again, you'd know all this if you actually knew anything about the topic at hand, and weren't just spouting off for the dual purposes of displaying your ignorance and being a twit.

Now, sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up, and let the people who know anything talk, you worthless jackass.

[Khendraja'aro]

So, my brother using a one-time-key key pad to gain access to his bureau was an illusion then? Okay, have a nice day.

[CitizenCain]

So, my brother using a one-time-key key pad to gain access to his bureau was an illusion then?

Explain to the class it's possible to implement a true one-time-pad in an electronic lock. (Hint: it's not.)

But, no, to be fair, it's much more likely that someone is *lying* than him getting in was an illusion.

Okay, have a nice day.

As soon as you shut your ignorant pie hole, I will.

[gentry]

Cain, you have interesting knowledge very few of us here understand. Couldn't you do more with it than to get into a geek fight?

[GGT]

As soon as gentry stops posting as Dread's alt, maybe Cain will open up about his skillz.

As a total tech idiot, I think Cain was implying that all digital pads have memories, regardless of lock or "one time use", open to anyone who knows how to access the memory.

[CitizenCain]

Cain, you have interesting knowledge very few of us here understand. Couldn't you do more with it than to get into a geek fight?

Undoubtedly. Just as I could do more with my money than buy beer, electronics and cigarettes... but I don't let that stop me.

And as Khen seems to be the only one with an interest in why electronic locks are no better than normal locks (and in many instances, far, far, far less secure), and he's being an ignorant, condescending ass about it, educating him is on my to do list right below "have sex with another man" and "taste cyanide." Particularly since he's made it clear he won't accept my say-so on the matter, and believes he has the faintest clue because he can throw the wrong crypto jargon around WRT electronic locks.

If someone else wants to know badly enough to ask, I'll provide my "meaningless say-so" on the matter tomorrow, but as far as Khen's concerned, he can shove his desire for information up his ass (along with his hostile, condescending attitude) until he punctures his small intestine for all I care. Seriously, if Khen's the only one who wants to know, I won't tell him until he can provide documented evidence that he shoved his fist up his ass so far and so forcefully as to puncture his intestinal wall.

As a total tech idiot, I think Cain was implying that all digital pads have memories, regardless of lock or "one time use", open to anyone who knows how to access the memory.

Actually, they generally don't have any memory, which is OK, because it's much easier to intercept the data in transit (and that's not even their biggest, or easiest to exploit vulnerability).

[GGT]

Interceptor of data, in memory or live...whatever, you just know how to "exploit" it. Mr. Bigshot.

You didn't know that gentry is Dread and sometimes Rand?