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Thread: cheer isn't a sport

  1. #1

    Default cheer isn't a sport

    Competitive cheerleading is not an official sport that colleges can use to meet gender-equity requirements, a federal judge ruled Wednesday in ordering a Connecticut school to keep its women's volleyball team.

    The volleyball players had sued Quinnipiac University after it announced last year that it would eliminate the team for budgetary reasons and replace it with a competitive cheer squad.

    The school contended the cheer squad keeps it in compliance with Title IX, the 1972 federal law that mandates equal opportunities for men and women in athletics.

    "Competitive cheer may, some time in the future, qualify as a sport under Title IX," U.S. District Judge Stefan Underhill wrote in his decision. "Today, however, the activity is still too underdeveloped and disorganized to be treated as offering genuine varsity athletic participation opportunities for students."

    Quinnipiac has 60 days to come up with a plan to keep the volleyball team and comply with gender rules.

    An activity can be considered a sport under Title IX if it meets specific criteria. It must have coaches, practices, competitions during a defined season and a governing organization. The activity also must have competition as its primary goal — not merely the support of other athletic teams.

    Quinnipiac and seven other schools recently formed a governing body, the National Competitive Stunts and Tumbling Association, to govern and develop competitive cheer as a sport.

    Previously, competitive cheerleading championships were decided by two organizations — the National Cheerleaders Association and the Universal Cheerleading Association. Both are tied to Varsity Brands Inc., which makes cheerleading apparel and runs camps.

    Quinnipiac had argued that if it could not count competitive cheerleading as a sport it might be forced to shut that program down, eliminating 36 positions on the squad.

    School officials responded to the ruling by saying they would start a women's rugby team, but they refused to answer any questions, discuss the future of other athletic teams or say whether they would continue offering scholarships to competitive cheerleaders.

    "We will continue to press for competitive cheer to become an officially recognized varsity sport in the future," Quinnipiac spokeswoman Lynn Bushnell said in a statement. "Consistent with our long-standing plans to expand opportunities in women's athletics, the university intends to add women's rugby as a varsity sport beginning in the 2011-2012 academic year."

    Attorneys for the volleyball players did not immediately return calls for comment.

    The American Civil Liberties Union of Connecticut, which assisted the volleyball players in bringing the lawsuit, said the decision gives force to Title IX.

    "Today's ruling directs Quinnipiac University to stop playing games with the important principle of equal opportunity for women," the organization said in a statement.

    The cheerleading issue was one of several Underhill was asked to decide as he considered whether the school had improperly manipulated it rosters.

    He also found the school was underreporting the participation opportunities for its male athletes and overstating the opportunities for women.

    Evidence showed the men's baseball and lacrosse teams, for example, would drop players before reporting data to the Department of Education and reinstate them after the reports were submitted. Conversely, the women's softball team would add players before the reporting date, knowing the additional players would not be on the team in the spring.

    School officials have said any improper manipulation of the rosters has stopped.

    Underhill also agreed with the plaintiffs' argument that female runners who participate on school's indoor, outdoor and cross country track teams should be counted just once for Title IX purposes. The men have just a cross country team.

    "Quinnipiac's practice of requiring women cross-country runners to participate on the indoor and outdoor track teams, and its treatment of the indoor and outdoor track teams as, in essence, an adjunct of the cross-country team, are sufficient to show that some cross-country runners who participate on the indoor and outdoor track teams should not be counted under Title IX," he wrote.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38347400/ns/us_news-life/

    First of all, those competitive cheerleaders are probably more athletic, muscular, and capable than most people on most men's and women's sports teams. It's not "oh, those girls look cute while they are cheering on our manly football team." Now yes, while the only competitions were corporate-sponsored I can see why they might think it is just a marketing ploy, but it sounds to me like eight colleges formed a league. How is that any different than the SEC or Ivy League competing against one another? They are trying to organize and grow; how the hell is that possible if they aren't given the chance.

    This is the very discrimination Title IX is meant to prevent.
    We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.

  2. #2
    Another reason to separate sports from higher education?

    Quinnipiac and seven other schools recently formed a governing body, the National Competitive Stunts and Tumbling Association, to govern and develop competitive cheer as a sport.
    Why don't they just have a gymnastics team, that also does "stunts and cheers" at games?

  3. #3
    They probably already do have a gymnastics team. That is an entirely different sport from competitive cheer.

    Competitive cheer, incidentally, doesn't do stunts and cheers at games, either.
    We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.

  4. #4
    Horse hockey. If offending universities gin up an "organization" to back up their shenanigans, they should not be rewarded by allowing them to game the system.

    Of course cheerleading involves athleticism. So? But the name kind of gives it away, doesn't it? If not for a company trying to drum up business and a couple of bad Hollywood movies, nobody would know about competitive cheering. It is a sport that is subservient to other sports, and that is indicated by the name and the fact that cheerleading teams primary purpose is still to cheer on boys being rough and tumble. If it were a legitimate sport, they wouldn't be chanting "Be Aggressive! Be Aggressive! B-E-A-G-G-R-E-S-S-I-V-E! So Be Aggressive!" Rather, they'd be doing entirely gymnastics routines to their own crowd, and not on a sideline of somebody else's sporting event.

    Give them 20 years of being an independent sport rather than, well, cheer leading. Then we'll talk about "varsity this and that."

    PS Weren't you bragging about your daughter the gymnast one some point? Wondering about objectivity here....

    PPS Don't they have a name for this sport? Gymnastics? The fact that you call it "cheer." Hey, let's make the marching band a sport! They have to lug around souzaphones or drums in synchronized patterns, with fine motor skills and years of experience to to play songs. Quite impressive!

  5. #5
    Gymnastics and cheer are not the same thing at all, Tear.

    Gymnastics is a recognized college sport, even.

    But, once again, competitive cheerleading grew out of the cheer for the team crap. It has nothing to do with cheering for others.
    We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.

  6. #6
    No overlap at all? <dubious look>

    And if it ain't cheering, why do they call it cheer? Why not call it team gymnastics? O - K!

    Also, so what? Do you know how many different club sports have been floating around universities for decades? They're all plenty athletic kids. Hell, various corporate-invented X-games sports have been around longer than cheer. Cheer can get in line for varsity status. If there's a non-business organizing body for more than a handful of schools and more than a handful of years, then yeah, I'll take it seriously. Get back to me in 2030 and I'll be sympathetic. For now, enjoy club team status, cheer teams! And don't moonlight spreading your legs for football players.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ']['ear View Post
    Hey, let's make the marching band a sport!
    I think thats the problem. Cheer is obviously a competition, just like when bands do march offs, or when companies like Coke take shit when they fuck up the fact that a white team wins a stomp competition. Competitions ≠ sports. The line between the two is sometimes blurred, but that simple fact remains.
    Trying to kill one sport, and replace it with another, is a dick move anyway.

  8. #8
    So is fraudulently screwing with their records. I think fines are in order, or maybe charges for whichever university officials did this.

    Oh, it probably comes down to budget shortfalls, and I'm sympathetic. I'm betting that the "cheer team" is cheaper somehow. But fraud is fraud. Wanna save money? Cut your football team!

  9. #9
    Wasn't this was just recently aired on Penn & Teller?

  10. #10
    In the early 1980s, cheerleading squads not associated with a schools or sports leagues, whose main objective was competition, began to emerge. The first organization to call themselves all stars and go to competitions were the Q94 Rockers from Richmond, Virginia, founded in 1982 by Hilda McDaniel.[15] All-star teams competing prior to 1987 were place into the same divisions as teams that represented schools and sports leagues. In 1986 National Cheerleaders Association (NCA) decided to address this situation by creating a separate division for these teams lacking a sponsoring school or athletic association, calling it the 'All-Star Division' and debuting it at their 1987 competitions. As the popularity of these types of teams grew, more and more of them were formed, attending competitions sponsored by many different types of organizations and companies, all using their own set of rules, regulations and divisions. This situation became one of the chief concerns of gym owners. These inconsistencies caused coaches to keep their routines in a constant state of flux, detracting from time that should be utilized to develop skills and provide personal attention to their athletes. More importantly, because the various companies were constantly vying for the competitive edge, safety standards had becoming more and more lax. In some cases, unqualified coaches and inexperienced squads are attempting dangerous stunts as a result of these “expanded” sets of rules.[16]
    A cheerleading squad performing toe-touches during a routine

    The USASF was formed in 2003 by these various competition companies to act as the national governing body for all star cheerleading and to create a standard set of rules and judging standards to be followed by all competitions sanctioned by the Federation and ultimately leading to the Cheerleading Worlds. The USASF hosted the first Cheerleading Worlds on Saturday, April 24, 2004.[16] And in 2009, the first All-Level Worlds was held. It included teams from all levels to compete, and each that won would go on to the online championships. There they would be put up head-to-head against other teams over the nation to win the Worlds Title.At the same time, cheerleading coaches from all over the country organize themselves for the same rule making purpose, calling themselves the National All Star Cheerleading Coaches Congress (NACCC). In 2005, the NACCC was absorbed by the USASF to become their rule making body.[15] By late 2006, the USASF was ready to expand its reach even further, by facilitating the creation of the International All-Star Federation (IASF), the first international governing body for the sport of cheerleading.[17]
    An All Star team during a competition

    Currently all-star cheerleading as sanctioned by the USASF involves a squad of 6–36 females and/or males. The squad prepares year-round for many different competition appearances, but they only actually perform for up to 2½ minutes during their routines. The numbers of competitions a team participates in varies from team to team, but generally, most teams tend to participate in eight-twelve competitions a year. These competitions include locals, which are normally taken place in school gymnasiums or local venues, nationals, hosted in big venues all around the U.S. with national champions, and the Cheerleading Worlds, taken place at Disney World in Orlando, Florida. During a competition routine, a squad performs carefully choreographed stunting, tumbling, jumping and dancing to their own custom music. Teams create their routines to an eight-count system and apply that to the music so the team members execute the elements with precise timing and synchronization.

    There are many different organizations that host their own state and national competitions. Some major companies include: Universal Spirit, AmeriCheer, Cheersport, Planet Spirit, Eastern Cheer and Dance Association, and the JAM Brands. This means that many gyms within the same area could be state and national champions for the same year and never have competed against each other. Currently, there is no system in place that awards only one state or national title.

    Judges at the competition watch for illegal moves from the group or any individual member. Here, an illegal move is something that is not allowed in that division due to difficulty and safety restrictions. They look out for deductions, or things that go wrong, such as a dropped stunt. They also look for touch downs in tumbling for deductions. More generally, judges look at the difficulty and execution of jumps, stunts and tumbling, synchronization, creativity, the sharpness of the motions, showmanship, and overall routine execution.

    All-star cheerleaders are placed into divisions, which are grouped based upon age, size of the team, gender of participants, and ability level. The age levels vary from under 4 year of age to 18 years and over. The divisions used by the USASF/IASF are currently Tiny, Mini, Youth, Junior, Junior International, Junior Coed, Senior, Senior Coed, and Open International. The sport originally began with "all girl" teams and later co-ed teams began to gain popularity. That being said, the all girl squad remains the most prevalent.[18]
    If a team places high enough at selected USASF/IASF sanctioned national competitions, they could be included in the Cheerleading Worlds and compete against teams from all over the world, as well as receive money for placing.[2] Each team receives a bid from another cheerleading company and goes in the name of that company. You must get a bid from a company in order to compete at the Cheerleading Worlds. For example, a team could get a bid from Cheersport, and they compete as a team representing that company. Cheerleading companies give out three types of bids to go to Cheerleading Worlds, Full Paid Bid, Parital Bid, or an Un-paid bid. The Cheerleading Worlds are only for teams that are level 5 and up.
    wiki, but the easiest and least-biased way to explain

    Some girls/women probably do both.
    We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.

  11. #11
    number of times it was referred to as a competition = 15
    number of times it was referred to as a sport = 2

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    number of times it was referred to as a competition = 15
    number of times it was referred to as a sport = 2
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_football

    Soccer. Number of times it was referred to as a competition = 29. Number of times it was referred to as a sport = 8. Means nothing.

    It seems to me that it doesn't really matter what you or I think. If the people involved think this form of cheerleading is a sport, and treat it as a sport, then it should count as a sport.

    From what is listed of the legal requirements, this seems to meet all of them.

  13. #13
    Gymnastics is generally referred to as a competition, too.

    Synchronized swimming and diving are also scored subjectively, and get called competitions rather than sports.
    We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    If the people involved think this form of cheerleading is a sport, and treat it as a sport, then it should count as a sport.
    Couldn't you extend that to include every competitive hobby? Is that what we want to aim for?


    Hell, people still bitch over these guys, and these people have insane endurance levels and reaction times
    Spoiler:



    EDIT:
    appears this debate is old as shit already
    http://www.sportnonsport.com/

  15. #15
    I tried out for a division 1 cheerleading team. They needed dudes after all. To think it's not an intense, competitive thing is ridiculous. The simple lack of a governing body seems like a pretty shallow reason to say it's not a real sport.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I tried out for a division 1 cheerleading team. They needed dudes after all. To think it's not an intense, competitive thing is ridiculous. The simple lack of a governing body seems like a pretty shallow reason to say it's not a real sport.
    Quinnipiac and seven other schools recently formed a governing body, the National Competitive Stunts and Tumbling Association, to govern and develop competitive cheer as a sport.

    Previously, competitive cheerleading championships were decided by two organizations — the National Cheerleaders Association and the Universal Cheerleading Association. Both are tied to Varsity Brands Inc., which makes cheerleading apparel and runs camps.
    They have one, the judge just didn't like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    <snip, images>
    appears this debate is old as shit already
    http://www.sportnonsport.com/
    This sort of thing really shouldn't be subject to popular opinion, IMO. It's a physical activity, the people involved think it's a sport, so let them have it.

  17. #17
    They shouldn't be manipulating rosters that way. Curious where they draw the line on what's a collegiate sport, though. Body building, weight lifting, skate boarding?

    Women's rugby might be interesting.....

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by littlelolligagged View Post
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38347400/ns/us_news-life/

    First of all, those competitive cheerleaders are probably more athletic, muscular, and capable than most people on most men's and women's sports teams. It's not "oh, those girls look cute while they are cheering on our manly football team." Now yes, while the only competitions were corporate-sponsored I can see why they might think it is just a marketing ploy, but it sounds to me like eight colleges formed a league. How is that any different than the SEC or Ivy League competing against one another? They are trying to organize and grow; how the hell is that possible if they aren't given the chance.

    This is the very discrimination Title IX is meant to prevent.
    Because what the university is trying to do IS "'oh, those girls look cute while they are cheering on our manly football team,'" and they're trying to get a Title IX sign-off on that being equal opportunity. They're attempting to put on a show to snow you. I don't care if competitive cheer is a sport or not, these people aren't actually going to treat it like one. If they cared, they wouldn't be in this position to begin with.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorNorton View Post
    Wasn't this was just recently aired on Penn & Teller?
    It was a pretty good one, too. But let's watch ']['ear fall over himself trying to be as misogynistic as possible about children's health!
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Because what the university is trying to do IS "'oh, those girls look cute while they are cheering on our manly football team,'" and they're trying to get a Title IX sign-off on that being equal opportunity. They're attempting to put on a show to snow you. I don't care if competitive cheer is a sport or not, these people aren't actually going to treat it like one. If they cared, they wouldn't be in this position to begin with.
    What the fuck kind of argument is that? The administration doesn't care, so the little girls deserve it? In the Land of Failing Health-Care in particular, there's ample reason for the arm-chair enthusiast to care. That some middle management minded school ass-holes set up this system decades ago is not the fault of the kids participating in it now, and given how much money seems to revolve around Murikans enjoying their little sports, people's potential outrage over this should be encouraged!
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  21. #21
    Penn and Teller had a good episode about cheer leading.

    No really they did. It's on the tube in 3 parts, but I can't find the first part. :/


    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  22. #22
    Are both of those without an audio stream?

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    What the fuck kind of argument is that? The administration doesn't care, so the little girls deserve it?
    Deserve what? This is about the school trying to say its fully compliant with Title IX when it's just desperately trying to find ways to fudge its numbers. Those "little girls" you're broken up about aren't being denied something they were getting before by this judge's ruling.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Deserve what? This is about the school trying to say its fully compliant with Title IX when it's just desperately trying to find ways to fudge its numbers. Those "little girls" you're broken up about aren't being denied something they were getting before by this judge's ruling.
    NEWS

    FUCKING

    FLASH

    The judge's ruling, or indeed anything prior to it, wasn't some decree from the Elder Gods. These kids are getting shafted, plain and simple. That their predecessors were shafted as well has little bearing on how "broken up" one is.

    You could've gone for the higher hanging fruit and lambasted me for not assaulting the US fascination with school sports, that might've been a more fruitful conversation than "this is how it is, man!".
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Are both of those without an audio stream?
    Yes they are?

    I'm at work so didn't check ... what use is putting these vids on youtube without audio? Christ alblightly.

    Season 8 episode 1. Torrents are all over the place.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  26. #26
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    I don't even understand what this debate is about. Is there some sort of subsidy dependent on this activity being designated a sport or not?
    Congratulations America

  27. #27
    A transcipty like summary of Penn and Teller.

    http://news.suite101.com/article.cfm...teller-a248031

    Although the show is edgy and not for youngsters, Penn and Teller’s recent show on the story behind the catastrophic injuries seen in cheerleading was eye-opening and revealed a dark side to the cheerleading industry.
    For the first time, a national show not only discussed the catastrophic injuries seen in the sport of cheerleading, but went further and investigated the business driving the sport.
    The show interviewed Laura Jackson, a former cheerleader, who was catastrophically injured while performing a back tuck during cheerleading tryouts six years ago. She stated that a point system used during the tryouts was responsible for her decision to tumble without a spotter


    The athlete received more points during the tryout if a spotter was not used. Laura chose not to use a spotter so that she could get more points for her back tuck. Choosing to tumble without a spotter resulted in a catastrophic spinal cord injury for Laura.
    Laura was rendered a quadriplegic dependent on a respirator to breathe. Because of her personal experience, she is now an advocate for safety in the sport of cheerleading.


    Cheerleading as a Sport Would Improve Safety

    One way to improve the safety in cheerleading and reduce catastrophic injuries would be to recognize competitive cheerleading as a “sport.” Moving cheer to a sport would enable the programs and their athletes to have access to better facilities, better coaches, certified athletic trainers, and athletic administrative oversight.
    Advocates for moving cheerleading as a designated sport include Dr. Fred Mueller, national expert on catastrophic injuries from the University of North Carolina, and Kim Archie, founder of National Safety Cheer Foundation. According to Dr. Mueller, part of the resistance of moving cheerleading to a sport involves the misperception that today’s cheerleaders are the same as those cheering 20 years ago.

    Today’s competitive cheerleaders are athletes who are well-trained in the skills of gymnastics, tumbling, and stunting. These athletes perform complicated choreographed routines featuring high level stunts in which some athletes (flyers) are tossed 15 to 20 feet in the air. These athletes compete in numerous competitions throughout the year.
    Should cheerleading be a sport? If the athletes train hard, practice hard, sustain injuries, and regularly compete … then competitive cheerleading should be recognized as a sport.
    According to Penn and Teller, the largest cheerleading organization in the country, Varsity Brands Incorporated, would potentially lose a lot of their revenue if cheerleading were accepted as a sport. Varsity receives significant revenue by hosting competitions (charging team competition fees, selling uniforms and practice gear, and charging gate fees).
    If cheerleading becomes a sport, the sport would have a state cheerleading competition hosted by the state just like every other sport. Because Varsity Brands Incorporated brought in over 300 million dollars last year, it is not in their best interest to advocate any changes in the cheerleading industry.
    Another revealing piece of information brought out in the show was that Varsity Brands Incorporated has 30 companies all acting as subsidiaries. To those not well-educated to the Varsity Brands company, it is not obvious that all of the subsidiaries are run by one big company.


    Training For Cheerleading Coaches

    The most revealing piece of information was that the United States All Star Federation (USASF), the organization responsible for safety certification, is also owned by Varsity. This would appear to be a conflict of interest for Varsity to own the company that creates safety programs for cheerleading.
    In the best interest of the sport, safety certification should be maintained by an independently funded organization. However, what was revealed on the show was that an individual need only attend a single three-hour training program and take an open book test to become a Varsity Certified Cheer Coach.
    Three hours of training is not enough to adequately prepare an individual to train and teach advanced stunts and tumbling progressions. Although the CEO of Varsity, Jeff Webb, wrote a statement to the Penn & Teller show stating that his organization is “leading the way through safety training” for cheer coaches, one would have to question the validity of this statement.
    In order to have the skills to safely coach competitive cheerleading, one would need extensive training and experience in tumbling progressions and spotting. The coach should also complete mandatory training in CPR, First Aid, AED training, injury prevention, developing a catastrophic injury plan, return to play standards, and head injury protocols because of the high risk for catastrophic injuries in the sport.
    Although the Penn and Teller show is an “in your face” look at cheerleading, their investigation into the cheerleading industry was revealing and educational. Any parent with a child in cheerleading should watch the show to learn how to protect their child.


    Improving Safety in Cheerleading

    As summed up by Penn, “as cheerleading is being currently practiced, it is the most dangerous sport.” Something needs to change, but it doesn’t look like the needed changes are coming from the cheer industry.
    For parents, the lessons learned from the show are to make sure that if their child (or someone they know) is involved in the sport of cheerleading, the parent should ensure the following:

    • Coach has prior hands-on experience in gymnastics, tumbling, and stunting progressions.
    • School has protective safety mats for the girls to practice and stunt on.
    • Coach is trained in CPR/First Aid/AED.
    • Coach has an emergency action plan in place.
    • Program has access to indoor facilities so that girls are not stunting on hard surfaces including grass, artificial turf, or rubberized track.

    Reference:
    Penn and Teller, Cheerleading,(aired on Showtime June 10, 2010).
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by ']['ear View Post
    PPS Don't they have a name for this sport? Gymnastics? The fact that you call it "cheer." Hey, let's make the marching band a sport! They have to lug around souzaphones or drums in synchronized patterns, with fine motor skills and years of experience to to play songs. Quite impressive!
    Is that sarcasm? Cause theres really much more to it than that. Most drum corps work harder than college football players. They're out there for 10 hours all day, everyday in the heat ranging from 90 to over 100 F depending where they are. Marching on that level is incredibly difficult because it has to be perfect and marching itself is extremely hard to do because not only do you have to keep your balance but it can be very painful. We've done exercises where my legs almost collapsed because my calfs were just failing. Plus if you are drum line you have to deal with 50 pound drums that kill your back and if your brass you have to hold what might as well be 15 pounds weights in front of you for hours on end. Even harder is rest position and horn snaps for a contra which are ridiculous.


  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I tried out for a division 1 cheerleading team. They needed dudes after all. To think it's not an intense, competitive thing is ridiculous. The simple lack of a governing body seems like a pretty shallow reason to say it's not a real sport.
    Let me re-phrase. Just because some people get together and are active together does not mean it should become a varsity sport. My main point is that there are tons of such activities, "cheer" is just another one of them that is not particularly widespread or have a whole lot of history behind it. Why should they go to the front of the line?

    I entirely respect the drive and ability involved. Just don't ask for special treatment and lots of recognition for a small niche sport. That is disenfranchising sports with long, storied histories and international competitions. Really, you're going to displace women's volleyball for cheer?

    Which is beside the point. The case here is that the university was clearly committing fraud and trying to game the system. Cheer just happened to be the tool of manipulation. It could have easily been the club sport (ultimate) vs. the varsity sport (soccer) that I played.

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Because what the university is trying to do IS "'oh, those girls look cute while they are cheering on our manly football team,'" and they're trying to get a Title IX sign-off on that being equal opportunity. They're attempting to put on a show to snow you. I don't care if competitive cheer is a sport or not, these people aren't actually going to treat it like one. If they cared, they wouldn't be in this position to begin with.
    EXACTLY.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    It was a pretty good one, too. But let's watch ']['ear fall over himself trying to be as misogynistic as possible about children's health!
    What the hell are you talking about, and what the hell is wrong with you? You show me where I've been misogynistic. Decided to get in some trolls before we restrict them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knux897 View Post
    Is that sarcasm? Cause theres really much more to it than that. Most drum corps work harder than college football players. They're out there for 10 hours all day, everyday in the heat ranging from 90 to over 100 F depending where they are. Marching on that level is incredibly difficult because it has to be perfect and marching itself is extremely hard to do because not only do you have to keep your balance but it can be very painful. We've done exercises where my legs almost collapsed because my calfs were just failing. Plus if you are drum line you have to deal with 50 pound drums that kill your back and if your brass you have to hold what might as well be 15 pounds weights in front of you for hours on end. Even harder is rest position and horn snaps for a contra which are ridiculous.
    Yes, I was being sarcastic, but it was not a shot at marching band. If anything I respect band more because of the intellect involved in music. I was saying that you could take almost anything that involves skill and determination and substitute it in for a varsity sport. I chose marching band because it, like cheer, is an activity that evolved as an expression of support for certain male varsity sports. Like anything, it became a competition, where people work hard and strive to be the best. That doesn't mean we need to proclaim it a varsity sport.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    NEWS

    FUCKING

    FLASH

    The judge's ruling, or indeed anything prior to it, wasn't some decree from the Elder Gods. These kids are getting shafted, plain and simple. That their predecessors were shafted as well has little bearing on how "broken up" one is.

    You could've gone for the higher hanging fruit and lambasted me for not assaulting the US fascination with school sports, that might've been a more fruitful conversation than "this is how it is, man!".
    I really have no clue what you're talking about. Which set of kids are you referring to getting shafted? Girls in any kind of sport at that school? Yes, that's why a judge ruled against the school. They shouldn't be getting shafted, which is why the judge ruled against the school.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

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