Our Golden Years

[GGT]

So much has changed in recent decades. Particularly our ideas about aging.

My grandparents were very active in their elder years. Playing golf, tennis, and contract Bridge. Traveling the world on planes/trains/automobiles, and ships. Not just fancy cruise ships but cargo ships.

They thought of themselves as healthy, in their day. Even though they took Digitalis for heart problems, wore dentures because of previous decay, walked with a hobble because of arthritis, endured poor vision from glaucoma or cataracts, wore hearing aids as their hearing failed.....they were healthier than their peers who were crippled from polio, Tb, blindness or deafness from bacterial infections, heart problems from scarlet fever.

They never expected to scale Mount Everest in their 70s, or even live beyond their 80s (without some infirmity or disability). They didn't live their Golden Years rocking on the porch, either. I also don't recall any of them complaining about getting old, or aging.

My grampa Geer used to joke about this, any way he could. The Wall Street Journal was printing the paper in smaller print, year by year. Should he invest in magnifying glasses or new typing machines with all that small print? haha. Medicine was designed for horses instead of humans, those huge pills no one can swallow whole. haha. Who needs fresh bread anyway, when it can be bought half-price as second-day-old? haha

I really don't know what my Golden Years will look like. After all, we can have Lasik or easy cataract removal and lens implants....even Cuba does that. We can put tiny things in our ears to hear better, or get a cochlear implant. We can have our joints replaced, specified by gender! We can have multiple heart vessel grafts, transplants, stents and pumps.....and take cocktails of meds to keep us living longer.

Living longer is living better. Right? And that's why we have colored adult diapers to look like underwear (instead of incontinence appliances), Viagra, cosmetic surgery, and a Pill for everything?


*Grampa Geer was born in either 1898 or 1900, we have conflicting dates on that.*

[GGT]

What do you think your Golden Years will look like? Will the quality of your life be more important than longevity itself? What about the other people involved?

My mom used to say.....she'd rather have a stroke that left one side paralyzed, and be freee to crawl her way around the garden, than be confined to a nursing home. She didn't want to live life without her own gardens, or be in a place that wouldn't let her crawl around to get around. She was adamant about that. It was important to her that we knew that.

I used to admire that as a strong and independent opinion, but also callous and selfish. After all, it would be her adult children, all living in different states, to make sure her wishes were honored.

In the end, mom died suddenly and without warning. Not even at her home or among her beloved gardens or waters. My sisters spent the next ten years tending her house, the gardens and pool in her absence, maintaining everything the way she would have liked as if she was still alive. Selling her boat was something they put off for ages. They flew to Florida every other week, taking turns, in between their jobs and careers and lives at their homes. Taking hurricane precautions, paying out the nose for Katrina and Rita damages. They didn't understand why I didn't want to be a third party, or why my young children wouldn't think it was a "vacation" to visit their dead grandma's house....when grandma wasn't there!

I don't want my Golden Years to be a burden for my kids. I especially don't want my kids to cling to my Twilight Years, or spend many of their best years keeping me alive.

[oldmunchkin]

My Grandparents on my Mom's side were a lot like yours, GGT. They didn't think about all those nuisances like loss of hearing or failing eyesight. They just talked louder and squinted at the print on the newspaper. They both had heart problems and took their pills religiously! But, even then, they didn't think about getting old. Granddad also had a couple of "mini-strokes" that kind of changed his personality, but didn't really slow them down. Every afternoon, when grade school let out, they would be inundated with small children, all wanting milk and cookies! They loved all those kids hanging out at their house. Granddad said he spent more money on milk and cookies for those kids than he spent on anything else!

My Dad's parents were a bit different than that. Grandpa had his musical instruments and played regularly! He had been a "bar" performer when he was younger, and loved to play. Grandma Hattie (Dad's step-mother) was always baking cookies or pies or making candy. That's really what I remember about the two of them. Grandpa died when I was 5, and Grandma Hattie moved to Wheatland where her brothers lived. She lived to be really old, but I'm not sure how old. She died in 1988. She had to be well into her 90's! From what I remember, they didn't really think about the getting old thing either.

Mommymunchkin is living out her "Golden Years" doing something she enjoys. I don't notice her giving in to getting old. She gets shots in her knees once or twice a year, she takes meds for her congestive heart failure, her blood pressure, and her diabetes. Up until this last year, she was able to do a little traveling...going to see her brother in Colorado, and her brother in Cody! Just about the only thing I really hear her complain about is her knees when she is almost due for a shot.

Dad didn't really ever say anything about getting old. He did his thing, regardless of what the doctors told him! He puttered around, splitting wood, and generally just staying busy, with a lot of naps in between spurts of work. He took meds for his narcolepsy and high blood pressure and (occasionally) pain pills for his back.

They did do some traveling after they sold the ranch. Dad's sister had a small motor home, and they went exploring the family history, visiting cemeteries in a number of states and running into unknown relatives in strange places. I don't recall their age getting in the way of them enjoying that.

As far as my "Golden Years" are concerned, I don't really know what they will bring. Maybe almost dying made me think a bit more about them, but I really can't picture much in my future. A lot of that has to do with my position at the moment, no income, deep in debt due to medical bills, and not exactly being the picture of good health. I did make a sort of "Bucket List" but am sure I will never get to do all those things! When I picture my years ahead, I see a pile of pills to keep me healthy, but not much else. How can someone enjoy life when one has to stop in the middle of things to take another fucking pill! But those fucking pills are what is keeping me alive, so I suppose I just have to suck it up and take them.

I don't ever want to be a burden to The Kid. I followed Mom and Dad's lead and made out a DNR and a medical power of attorney, so that my wishes are known. I don't want to lay in a bed, suffering, for weeks or months before dying. I also would prefer not to lose my mind, (no comments please, I know I have already lost it ) but I suppose I wouldn't even know I had lost it. I would just be like so many and revert to being a child in many ways.

I think it's important for everyone to make sure their end of life wishes are known and will be followed thru, if possible. It doesn't matter how young, or old, you are!

[GGT]

I would just be like so many and revert to being a child in many ways.

What does that mean?

[oldmunchkin]

What does that mean?

All the people I know who have dementia or alzheimers tend to revert to being almost childlike. They throw temper tantrums when they don't get their way, they wear diapers, they don't know anyone, and they speak with child-like innocence.

[GGT]

Sure, but even aging (or very ill young) adults with perfectly sound minds can revert to "being childlike". They need help with eating, bathing, dressing, toileting, ambulating. For Parkinson or MS patients, that can last a very long time.

[oldmunchkin]

Sure, but even aging (or very ill young) adults with perfectly sound minds can revert to "being childlike". They need help with eating, bathing, dressing, toileting, ambulating. For Parkinson or MS patients, that can last a very long time.

That's true. That's why I sometimes wonder if we are just prolonging lives of some people who might prefer we didn't prolong it. I have a couple of friends with MS, and both of them do not want "life-saving" measures if they get that bad, but they both have to deal with their condition for a great many years to come. (One is my age and the other is a year older, so both relatively young people.)

Do I think the advances in medicine is a good thing? Yes! Do I see where those same advances could be just the thing that some people don't want, considering their disease/condition? Yes. I hadn't gotten my DNR and power of attorney done before I was admitted to ICU. If I had, I wouldn't be here, posting at 4:15 AM , because they would have never put me on the respirator! That is one of the things I specified in my wishes. Am I glad they put me on it, and did all the other life-saving treatments? HELL YES! I guess it all depends on the quality of life a person has after the treatment. So far, I am going to be able to live a normal life, even with all the meds and glucose testing numerous times per day. If I had been brain dead, it would have been harder for Mom and The Kid to convey my wishes (Yes, they knew them!) to the doctors, and harder for them to have gotten my wishes carried out. I do not want to be confined to a bed or lose my mind. I can see where medical science has evolved to the point people can be kept "alive", even if they really don't have a life to live. I find that hard to deal with!

[GGT]

One of my previous in-law aunts has had severe MS for decades. She came to our wedding in a scooter, and her husband spoon-fed her at the reception, then lifted her into the car and packed the scooter up like a pair of skis. No big deal. After he got too old to do that, she had a day-care provider who could use a hoyer lift to transfer her from bed to bath, cook and feed her, take her on daily outings. But she needed to be turned every hour, even at night. Her relatives took turns trying to spend the nights.....but it was too much. After her husband and two adult children and six siblings couldn't keep up, she ended up with 24 hour care with 8 hour shifts. Even her church friends couldn't fill in the gaps. But it was important that she remain at home instead of living in a skilled facility.

She learned how to use a mouth stylus to type and answer the phone.....writing incredible stories, and solving the NYT cross puzzles in one hour. Very smart and capable woman, trapped in a broken body. Reliant on her family to keep her at home.

My sister's late father-in-law lived in the family living room, on a hospital bed, for the last year of his life. Everything revolved around his medical care, his needs.

My ex mother-in-law (whom I adored) spent the last conscious months of her life on the family room sofa, close to the half-bath. Her husband fed her, gave her sponge baths, walked her to the toilet, then helped her use a bedside commode when she could no longer walk. Neither one of them would admit she was terminal, and it took others to take her to the hospital. She could have used hospice care, but that kind of thing "takes time".

I sometimes fret about this "being home at all costs" notion. Honestly, I don't know what I would do if faced with this dilemma.

[oldmunchkin]

IMO, the hardest part of getting old, if you have an agile mind still, is the being trapped in the prison that your body has become. Even as young as I am, I consider my body to be a traitor, failing me, failing to heal quick enough. It has also forced me to rely on many doctors to keep me alive. Without those doctors and nurses, and their wonderful care for me, my traitorous body would have failed completely. Of course, at that exact moment that this was all going on, my mind wasn't exactly firing on all cylinders! That was lucky for me, and most definitely lucky for those taking care of me. I am NOT a good patient!

[GGT]

IMO, the hardest part of getting old, if you have an agile mind still, is the being trapped in the prison that your body has become. Even as young as I am, I consider my body to be a traitor, failing me, failing to heal quick enough. It has also forced me to rely on many doctors to keep me alive. Without those doctors and nurses, and their wonderful care for me, my traitorous body would have failed completely. Of course, at that exact moment that this was all going on, my mind wasn't exactly firing on all cylinders! That was lucky for me, and most definitely lucky for those taking care of me. I am NOT a good patient!

Well, everyone needs someone! Being sick doesn't mean the same thing as being old. Even though being sick can make us all feel old, weak, decrepit.

Our bodies almost never live up to our expectations---even for healthy or young folks. My son was astounded at how long it took to heal his pre-tibial hematoma sport injury. He just assumed that since he was young and healthy, he'd be back on his feet in no time. Wishing doesn't make it so.

[oldmunchkin]

Well, everyone needs someone! Being sick doesn't mean the same thing as being old. Even though being sick can make us all feel old, weak, decrepit.

No, but all too often being old means being sick!

Our bodies almost never live up to our expectations---even for healthy or young folks. My son was astounded at how long it took to heal his pre-tibial hematoma sport injury. He just assumed that since he was young and healthy, he'd be back on his feet in no time. Wishing doesn't make it so.

I am just impatient, wanting to get back some muscle tone to go with the weight I have to gain. If I gain another 10 pounds, I and the doctors will be happy. I will be much happier if a large part of that 10 pounds is muscle weight and not fat weight! I am trying to build myself back up. I lost so much that even now walking the block to the grocery store wears me out and I have to sit on the bench and rest before shopping. Even when I was my sickest, I was still able to walk without getting tired that soon.

[GGT]

No, but all too often being old means being sick!

I'm older than you, but you have many more health issues. What you have going on isn't necessarily age-related.

I am just impatient, wanting to get back some muscle tone to go with the weight I have to gain. If I gain another 10 pounds, I and the doctors will be happy. I will be much happier if a large part of that 10 pounds is muscle weight and not fat weight! I am trying to build myself back up. I lost so much that even now walking the block to the grocery store wears me out and I have to sit on the bench and rest before shopping. Even when I was my sickest, I was still able to walk without getting tired that soon.

Uhm....yeah, you sound impatient like my teenaged son. What does your elderly mother, with all her ailments, say about this?

[oldmunchkin]

I just happened upon this article. Altho it doesn't really discuss aging, it does discuss Locked-In patients, those who have limited to no body function, but their brain appears to be working. Quite frankly, this condition scares me silly! I am pretty sure I don't want my mind to be active and working, while my body just lays there.

LONDON (AP) - You are awake, aware and probably unable to move or talk - but you are not necessarily unhappy, says the largest study of locked-in syndrome ever conducted.
A surprising number of patients with the condition say they are happy, despite being paralyzed and having to communicate mainly by moving their eyes. Most cases are caused by major brain damage, often sustained in traumatic accidents.
As part of the study - published in the online journal BMJ Open on Wednesday, Dr. Steven Laureys of the Coma Science Group at the University Hospital of Liege in Belgium and colleagues sent questionnaires to 168 members of the French Association for Locked-in Syndrome, asking them about their medical history, their emotional state and views on euthanasia.
Sixty-five patients used a scale to indicate their sense of well-being, with 47 saying they were happy and 18 unhappy. They were also asked a variety of questions about their lives, including their ability to get around or participate in social functions, or if they had ever considered euthanasia.
Only a handful of patients said they often had suicidal thoughts. The patients responded to questions largely by blinking.
Adrian Owen, a neuroscientist at the University of Western Ontario in Canada, said of the results: "We cannot and should not presume to know what it must be like to be in one of these conditions."
"Many patients can find happiness in ways that we simply cannot imagine," he said via e-mail. He was not linked to the study.
Laureys and colleagues said the findings should change not only how patients are treated, but people's attitudes toward euthanasia.
They said if patients with locked-in syndrome are properly cared for, they can live for decades. With rehabilitation, many patients can regain some control of their head, fingers, and feet and may be able to talk a little.
"That some locked-in syndrome patients self-report happiness may suggest they have succeeded in adapting to their condition of extreme disability," said Laureys and his colleagues.
Laureys said that patients' requests for euthanasia "should be received with sympathy, but our data suggest that a moratorium should be proposed" until the patients' condition has stabilized. Laureys and colleagues noted the longer a person had locked-in syndrome, the more likely he or she was to be content.
Previous research shows people with extreme disabilities can be happy in what is known as "the disability paradox," meaning that even people who have a very limited daily existence, report being happy, contrary to what many experts had assumed.
Tom McMillan, a professor of clinical neuropsychology at the University of Glasgow, said it wasn't surprising this also appeared to be the case for people with locked-in syndrome. In previous cases, McMillan has found some of these patients were happy, had a sense of humor and wanted to live despite previous court applications to withdraw life support.
Scientists have long thought happiness doesn't fluctuate wildly and that the effects of good or bad events, like marriage, a raise or disability, fade with time.
The researchers acknowledged the results may be biased since the study was based on a select group and might not apply to locked-in patients in general. Patients also answered the survey with a caregiver or family member present, which may have influenced answers.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110224/D9LIQ1200.html

[oldmunchkin]

Sorry for the double post!

I'm older than you, but you have many more health issues. What you have going on isn't necessarily age-related.

I realize it isn't age related. I just know far too many older people who, almost as if someone flipped a switch, start having major medical problems after they reach about 70 years old.

Uhm....yeah, you sound impatient like my teenaged son. What does your elderly mother, with all her ailments, say about this?

I am trying not to be impatient, but I am so used to being able to walk around town, sometimes for miles, without having to stop and rest, that I feel like a failure when I can't walk a block, FFS! Mom keeps telling me it will get better with time. Of course, this comes from a woman who was told the shots in her knees might take up to 3 days before she noticed a difference. She walks out of the doctor's office feeling the positive effects of the shots, and is feeling an almost 100% improvement the next day. She doesn't realize how much of a failure I feel when she can outwalk me in Wal Mart!

[GGT]

Sounds like Stephen Hawking. Maybe it takes a very special and unique person to find HappiNess in their disabilities.

[GGT]

Sorry for the double post!

I realize it isn't age related. I just know far too many older people who, almost as if someone flipped a switch, start having major medical problems after they reach about 70 years old.

That's age-related. How long do you suppose knees and hips are meant to last before they simply wear out? 100 years?

I am trying not to be impatient, but I am so used to being able to walk around town, sometimes for miles, without having to stop and rest, that I feel like a failure when I can't walk a block, FFS! Mom keeps telling me it will get better with time. Of course, this comes from a woman who was told the shots in her knees might take up to 3 days before she noticed a difference. She walks out of the doctor's office feeling the positive effects of the shots, and is feeling an almost 100% improvement the next day. She doesn't realize how much of a failure I feel when she can outwalk me in Wal Mart!

It's not a competition, you know.

[GGT]

Hey! Why are munch and I the only ones posting in this here thread? None of you have experienced others in their Golden Years? You haven't thought about your own Golden Years?

Is this too personal, too intimate?

Should we all just return to our previous entertainment? Or would that be extrotainment? I hear Snooki from Jersey Shore has a new book coming out......

[Dreadnaught]

Many of us were asleep or hung over between 3AM and 8AM US time when you posted this.

[GGT]

This is an international forum.

[Dreadnaught]

That's why I included the hung over part.

[GGT]

Think about this when you're young. It used to be a common plan to work long hours for decades, save money and bank travel time.....for the Golden Years.

But when those years arrive, the money may be gone and health may be compromised. Best laid plans can bust. If you wanna see the world, do it when you're young. It's not nearly as much fun in a wheelchair, dragging around an oxygen tank and pill packs.

[Hazir]

I still don t give much time to growing older, it seems silly to think of getting beyond 60. And if I do I'll deal with it then. My mother didn t make it there, my father didn't, and my siblings, well they aren't changing a lot in the negative outlook.Diabetes, cancer strange afflictions and then the whole thing with obesity.

[Catgrrl]

Think about this when you're young. It used to be a common plan to work long hours for decades, save money and bank travel time.....for the Golden Years.

But when those years arrive, the money may be gone and health may be compromised. Best laid plans can bust. If you wanna see the world, do it when you're young. It's not nearly as much fun in a wheelchair, dragging around an oxygen tank and pill packs.

Hell, I'll take it a step further and say go before you get married and have kids too. Priorities change (well, for some responsible adults) and going on that world-wide trip gets pushed back further and further.

I don't think young people really do that much saving for the future anymore...I'm just as guilty of not thinking that far ahead myself. No one thinks about what they are doing next week, let alone 40+ years from now Guess it is the instant gratification world we live in; that and expecting SS will be around to take care of everything.

[oldmunchkin]

Hell, I'll take it a step further and say go before you get married and have kids too. Priorities change (well, for some responsible adults) and going on that world-wide trip gets pushed back further and further.

That's what The Kid did! He took his "dream" trip to Sweden a year after he got out of high school! Even tho, as time goes on, he has found that money would have been handy to have now, he doesn't regret his trip. When he gets older, he won't have to say, "I was going to go to Sweden, but I didn't go." I know a lot of people who regret not taking that trip they wanted to take right after school!

I don't think young people really do that much saving for the future anymore...I'm just as guilty of not thinking that far ahead myself. No one thinks about what they are doing next week, let alone 40+ years from now Guess it is the instant gratification world we live in; that and expecting SS will be around to take care of everything.

I really seriously never thought I would live past September of the year I turned 25. For some reason, on both sides of my family, the people my generation seem to expire then. I spend way too much time in September sitting in churches or mortuaries, giving a send-off to my cousins.

I never did save for the future, and now I do wish I had been better with money when I was younger. Oh well! I can't go back and change it now.

[termite]

Live now...fuck the golden years!

[GGT]

That's the quandary. Who wants to find themselves pinching pennies in their elder years, because it was all spent on living in the now of youth?

[Timbuk2]

I think the idea behind the Live now ... fuck the golden years! ethos is that, if you do it properly, you'll be long dead before any golden years come your way.

[rumrunner]

I think the idea behind the Live now ... fuck the golden years! ethos is that, if you do it properly, you'll be long dead before any golden years come your way.

That's my plan. Not looking good so far, now I am way behind in Planning. Looks I'll be lucky to have Gold plated years forget about actual golden ones.

[oldmunchkin]

That's the quandary. Who wants to find themselves pinching pennies in their elder years, because it was all spent on living in the now of youth?

I think, for some at least, we don't worry about the future because we don't think we will still be alive. I have been thinking about it a bit more lately for 2 reasons.
1.) When I think about how close I came to dying, I am now hoping I live another 40 years, as long as I am healthy and have my mind.
2.) I am watching Mommymunchkin trying to make ends meet every month. Believe me, SS doesn't go nearly far enough, and her paychecks every month almost make up that difference.
Most people want to be able to enjoy the present, and if they feel like they have to scrimp and save for the future, they feel cheated out of "the good life" they could be living. Then there are those who have had to spend what they saved over the years, long before the "golden years" comes around. Those who lost their jobs and had to spend their retirement money just to survive now, or, like a friend of mine, watched their retirement savings fly out the window paying for a terminal illness. MOM Tommi's husband is thousands of dollars in debt still from her illness, and that's after draining his 401K, and whatever else they had saved.

[Lewkowski]

Think about this when you're young. It used to be a common plan to work long hours for decades, save money and bank travel time.....for the Golden Years.

But when those years arrive, the money may be gone and health may be compromised. Best laid plans can bust. If you wanna see the world, do it when you're young. It's not nearly as much fun in a wheelchair, dragging around an oxygen tank and pill packs.

That sounds like an excuse people make not to save for their retirement. Not saying that's what you personally are doing but I dislike that line of reasoning.