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Thread: What if not corruption?

  1. #1

    Default What if not corruption?

    Sorry for the small posting spree tonight, but I can't help but share these insane WSJ articles about crazy federal laws. They just blow my mind.

    Outside of the US, is anyone familiar with this kind of practice? Of seizing assets that are tangentially related to a crime?

    ECONOMY | OCTOBER 18, 2011

    Motel Is Latest Stopover in Federal Forfeiture Battle
    By JOHN R. EMSHWILLER, GARY FIELDS and JENNIFER LEVITZ

    TEWKSBURY, Mass.—The $57-a-night Motel Caswell, magnet for hard-luck cases, police patrol cars and the occasional drug deal, is the unlikely prize in a high-stakes tug-of-war between conservative legal activists and the government.

    The motel's owner, spurred by a recent Supreme Court decision, is trying to convince a federal court that the Constitution bars the U.S. Department of Justice from seizing his property, where guests have been found guilty of drug offenses. The owner, Russell Caswell, isn't accused of any wrongdoing. But he stands to lose his business nonetheless under a law that calls for the forfeiture of properties linked to crimes.

    Mr. Caswell's federal court case challenges the U.S. government's ballooning asset-forfeiture system that in more than 15,000 cases last year confiscated cash, cars, boats and real estate valued at $2.5 billion. While many asset forfeitures are tied to convictions, the federal government can seize properties stained by crime even if owners face no charges.

    "People shouldn't lose their property if they haven't been convicted of any crime," said Scott Bullock, a lawyer for the Institute for Justice, a libertarian public-interest law firm in Arlington, Va., that has joined in the motel's defense. "Mr. Caswell hasn't even been accused."

    Civil rights groups, libertarians and attorneys defending against seizures say the government is overstepping its bounds in a practice that has swelled in the past decade to encompass some 400 federal statutes, covering crimes from drug trafficking to racketeering to halibut poaching.

    Law-enforcement officials argue the laws afford adequate citizen protections. Government forfeiture powers are needed tools to drain the wealth of drug cartels and other criminal enterprises, authorities say.

    On the front lines of this legal battle is a tidy but worn 56-room motel that has been owned and operated by Mr. Caswell and his family since the 1950s. The property's low-slung buildings sit next to an auto body shop on Main Street in this town of 29,000. Weekly rates start at $285. Rooms with heart-shaped tubs cost extra.

    The federal government in 2009 filed a complaint in Massachusetts federal court seeking forfeiture on the grounds the motel was used in connection with illegal drug activities.

    Mr. Caswell, 68 years old, said that among his tens of thousands of past customers he could have unknowingly hosted a relative handful of lawbreakers. But that's a problem faced by many motel owners, he said.


    A Justice Department court filing listed seven police investigations from 2001 to 2008 that resulted in at least eight convictions for drug-related crimes, including possession and trafficking. Sentences ranged from probation to three years in state prison. The motel has been the subject of more than 100 drug investigations since 1994, according to the government filing.

    A talkative man with a crew cut and thick-rimmed glasses, Mr. Caswell said he and his employees try to keep out shady customers. At the front desk he maintains a "do not rent" list with the names of 75 guests who have made trouble.


    He also keeps a log of police visits in the past year that is thick with complaints, from fist fights to screaming matches. A sampling: Oct. 7, room 240 called police about a domestic assault; police came with an ambulance, and "took the man away on a stretcher," the log said. On Sept. 3, the motel called police after a "girl looked dead" in room 229, said another entry. Emergency workers "got a pulse again." At 6 a.m. on Aug. 15, a woman was in the motel yard hollering. "She was just off her rocker," Mr. Caswell said.

    The guests who cause problems, he said, are only a "tiny percent of the people who stay here. They want to make people think this is the Wild West but that simply isn't the case."

    Last winter, Mr. Caswell said, he arrived at work and was told police were in room 252, which was declared a crime scene. "I could see blood on the door, it looked like handprint. The window was broken. There was blood all over the place, blood everywhere. I went to the police station and asked, 'Can you fill me in on what went on in 252?'"

    Officers at first refused to say much. "I finally got out of them that these people came in at 4 a.m., and shortly after, they were drunk, and got into some kind of a squabble," he said.

    Mr. Caswell said the government's focus on his motel was unfair. He retrieved newspaper accounts of crimes at businesses nearby. "It's not like it's us," he said, "it's the area."

    David Gay, vice-chairman of the Board of Selectman of Tewksbury, said he had heard numerous complaints about illegal drugs and other crimes at the Caswell. Nearby motels, he said, have similar though much less frequent trouble.

    The Tewksbury Police Department provided U.S. authorities with evidence for the case, according to a court filing, and could get as much as 80% of the proceeds from the sale of the property under a federal forfeiture program known as "equitable sharing," which pays a portion to state and local agencies that help. Last year, payments nationwide topped $500 million, up 75% from a decade earlier. With budget shortfalls growing common, police departments say the federal money is welcome.

    Tewksbury city officials say the case was pushed by federal officials and they don't know how the roadside motel became a target. A police department spokesman deferred comment to the U.S. Attorney's office in Boston, which began the seizure proceedings two years ago. A federal spokeswoman said, "The case is about law enforcement and has nothing to do with any financial considerations." She declined to say how the motel case originated.

    Federal officials say sharing proceeds with police reduces crime by giving cities and other local agencies a financial incentive to seek out criminally tainted assets. Opponents say the money creates a conflict of interest.

    Mr. Caswell said he believes the lure of shared profits from his property attracted the cooperation of town authorities. The motel and land have no mortgage and are worth about $1 million, he said: "This has nothing to do with drugs. This is about money." The federal government has a lien on the property that forbids its sale or use as collateral until the case is decided.

    Mr. Bullock, of the Institute for Justice, said he planned to file a motion by early next month asking a Massachusetts federal judge to dismiss the case in a challenge of the equitable sharing program.

    Mr. Caswell's attorneys said in a recent court filing that the program "exceed(s) the lawful powers of the federal government as limited by the 10th Amendment." The 10th Amendment says powers not given by the Constitution to the federal government are reserved for the states or the people.

    This line of attack was opened by a Supreme Court decision in June that made it easier for citizens to mount constitutional challenges of federal government actions. Before the ruling, which was unanimous, courts generally held that only states, not individuals, could raise many 10th Amendment claims.

    Mr. Bullock said his side would argue the equitable sharing program illegally usurps a state's power to run its own asset forfeiture system by giving police an incentive to work with the federal government ahead of state authorities.

    Massachusetts' forfeiture law, which requires that a property be "used in and for the business of" drug dealing, makes seizures more difficult than under federal law, he said, which requires only that the property be used "in any manner or part."

    Tenth Amendment challenges are emerging as a "hot area" in the national debate over federal powers, said Steven Schwinn, an associate professor at the John Marshall Law School in Chicago.

    The motel case is an interesting challenge, he added, but it will be tough to win because participation is voluntary. Courts, generally, have struck down federal programs only when they compel states to join.

    Mr. Bullock disagreed. Although the program is voluntary, he said, it allows police departments to bypass the will of state lawmakers to pursue profits through the federal forfeiture program.

    Mr. Caswell said the legal battle has taken a toll on his family as well as the motel. "I haven't done much maintenance in the last two years since this crap started," he said, as he walked by a broken window patched with duct tape. "Normally, I would have had that fixed."

    Leaning against a silver Chevy Cavalier parked outside her room, motel guest Sheila Esposito, a 50-year-old unemployed woman from nearby Wilmington, Mass., said she has rented rooms for weeks at a time over the past six months while looking for work. She said she had just gotten a job offer at a discount store.

    "This place is $800 a month, with everything included. Can you beat that?" she said. Moments later, a bearded, bald-headed man with his shirt unbuttoned to the waist staggered from a nearby room, asking for a cigarette.

    "That's the kind of thing you have to avoid," she said.

    "Bum," said another guest, Joel Dubeshter, as the man walked away.

    Standing in his doorway smoking a cigarette, Mr. Dubeshter, 58 years old, said he had been staying at the motel for long stretches over the past three years following his divorce. He said he can't work because of a disability.

    The motel is his mailing address and he has furnished the small, tile-floored room with two of his walnut bureaus, along with family photos. Coolers with groceries sit by the bed. He cooks in a toaster oven in the motel office.

    "It's definitely home to me," he said. Mr. Dubeshter has seen fights break out—"these are small rooms and people get on each other's nerves." But he said he doesn't approve of the government trying to take the motel property: "I think it's a bunch of bull."

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...141904000.html

  2. #2
    Not just a federal issue, I have problems with any claim of such a broad seizure power. Seizing contraband is one thing, and I can be convinced to go along with seizing things like related paraphernalia, firearms, etc when there's a conviction. Items which end up in police possession which the legitimate owner does not bother to reclaim when s/he can *like personal affects taken when you're arrested but which you don't take back when you're released* But real estate? Uh-uh. Well, maybe if it was fraudulently acquired and there was a conviction on such fraud charges though I would think in that case that it would be returned to the proper owner.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  3. #3
    Yeah, I can't see this being right. If they can't make any charges stick against the proprietor, they shouldn't be seizing his assets. I'm mostly concerned about the financial incentives involved - obviously the feds will make money off it, but the bigger issue is that the local cops get a tidy sum as well, which provides for all sorts of bad incentives.

    Then again, I wouldn't have problems with the cops seizing a boat or car used in drug trafficking, even if it was only borrowed from another owner who wasn't directly involved. So is it really that different?

  4. #4
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    Then again, I wouldn't have problems with the cops seizing a boat or car used in drug trafficking, even if it was only borrowed from another owner who wasn't directly involved. So is it really that different?
    Well, maybe that's the problem.

    The idea that your property can be taken by an unrelated third party because it's guilty of a crime (and that you generally have to prove your property's innocence) is the kind of obscene perversion of justice that used to be reserved for especially corrupt 3rd wold dictatorships. Now in small-town America, thanks to the War on [some] Drugs.

    Yippie, government - clearly something we need more of. High time to burn it to the ground and rebuild on the ashes...
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  5. #5
    This has nothing to do with the war on drugs. Yes, thats the most common reason to seizing property, but states do the same thing for other crimes. Seizing cerealbox cars used in street racing is popular as well.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    Then again, I wouldn't have problems with the cops seizing a boat or car used in drug trafficking, even if it was only borrowed from another owner who wasn't directly involved. So is it really that different?
    I'm not sure how it is different.

  7. #7
    Now that I think about it more, you might be right. If the property was being used for illegal purposes without the knowledge/consent of the owners (or without proof thereof), why does it matter what it is? It shouldn't be arbitrarily seized.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Over here the county can revoke licenses to businesses if the owner is associated with organized crime. I'm pretty cool with that to be honest. But he has to be actually involved in it, not just have his place used. Of course, if someone turns willingly a blind eye to crime being conducted in his business.. Then it's his fault, too.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  9. #9
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    I'm pretty cool with that law too, it is very effective in reducing the influence of organised crime in Amsterdam, especially in the Red Light district. We're not quite there yet, but at least moving in the right direction.

    I also kind of like the legislation that gives the state the ability to strip convicted criminals of whatever they have gained through their crimes.

  10. #10
    I think there's a distinction between being culpable (and thus capable of being convicted in court) and someone whose involvement can't be proven, yes?

  11. #11
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    I think there's a distinction between being culpable (and thus capable of being convicted in court) and someone whose involvement can't be proven, yes?
    Aye, but on the flipside it's hard to convict someone who isn't directly connected, especially in organized crime. Compare it to becoming a cop: if your name has come up in serious investigations, even if you haven't been convicted, you can't become a cop. Similarly the county can refuse a license to people who are 'known associates'. It's fairly effective.

    The other legislation Hazir mentions is only after conviction, and only of things they can prove the convict has earned with his criminal behaviour. Also pretty effective.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    Aye, but on the flipside it's hard to convict someone who isn't directly connected, especially in organized crime. Compare it to becoming a cop: if your name has come up in serious investigations, even if you haven't been convicted, you can't become a cop. Similarly the county can refuse a license to people who are 'known associates'. It's fairly effective.
    Uh... what? Isn't this what courts are for? You can't discriminate just because someone thinks you're fishy. I really can't imagine why this should be acceptable. (Not to say that most of the people on these lists are good guys... but we have a system, and we have to work inside that system. Otherwise, it's open to abuse.)

    The other legislation Hazir mentions is only after conviction, and only of things they can prove the convict has earned with his criminal behaviour. Also pretty effective.
    That's fine by me, no problem.

  13. #13
    Found this little guy abandoned outside: ,

    He was wondering if a mod would mind putting him back in the thread title, where he belongs.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  14. #14
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Ouch...

    Could we get a Grammar Nazi Emoticon?
    Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita

  15. #15
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    This has nothing to do with the war on drugs.
    Well, no, it has everything to do with the America's war on happiness, liberty, naturally occurring biology, chemistry (etc. - AKA "War on drugs"), because that's what prompted asset forfeiture laws in this country, and the huge amounts of easy money are what keep driving it and creating all kinds of fun abuses, like this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    Uh... what? Isn't this what courts are for? You can't discriminate just because someone thinks you're fishy. I really can't imagine why this should be acceptable.
    Uh, sure you can. You just can't discriminate based on their religion, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation. It's perfectly legal to discriminate on someone because, say, blondes are sluttier. And when it comes to the government, they can do anything they want, because [common good and/or inter-state commerce clause].
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    As from today, Dutch administrative authorities may refuse contracts, subsidies or permits for organisations and companies if they have serious doubts about the integrity of the relevant applicant. On 1 June, the Public Administration Probity in Decision-Making Act (BIBOB) entered into force. In addition to relying on their own enquiries, the authorities may henceforth use the BIBOB Bureau of the Ministry of Justice to seek further advice on the applicant requesting the service.Administrative authorities having to decide on whether to grant a permit, subsidy or building contract to an organisation or a company now have the option to refuse this if they suspect that the service to be provided is being used for criminal objectives. In doing so, the government avoids aiding criminals or criminal organisations. To that end, the administrative authority will have to conduct an integrity assessment using its own information as well as public sources such as the Chamber of Commerce.
    If it is deemed appropriate, the administrative authority may also ask the BIBOB Bureau for advice. This Bureau has access to secured sources such as the police files and the Tax and Customs Administration. The BIBOB Bureau,which is part of the Ministry of Justice, not only inspects the antecedents of the applicant, but also checks his or her immediate environment such as other persons in leading positions in the relevant organisation and business relationships. This may result in a recommendation about the degree of risk – none, some or high – which the administrative authority runs in unintentionally aiding criminals if the service is to be granted.
    The Bureau is also responsible for providing information about the effect and implementation of the Act.
    The BIBOB Act applies to the national authority, provincial authorities, municipal authorities, local water boards, police forces and independent administrative authorities that award certain tendering procedures. Some examples are the Informatie Beheer Groep, Sociale Verzekeringsbank (social insurance agency), NS Railinfrabeheer, Chambers of Commerce, Nederlandsche Bank, Central Body for Asylum Seekers Accommodation, inspection services and health insurance funds. As regards the tenders, the Act is limited to the Construction, ICT and Environment (waste treatment) line of business; as regards permits to the Construction, Hotel and Catering, professional transport,coffee shops and smart shops, sex establishments and escort services, amusement arcades, opium exemptions and housing corporations. As far as subsidies are concerned, each subsidy scheme may specify separately that the BIBOB Act is applicable.
    - Source: More government control on integrity of organisations and companies, Press Release, June 2, 2003, Netherlands Justice Department
    You an appeal in court. by the way. And it's important that this is administrative 'law', not criminal.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan Rath View Post
    Ouch...

    Could we get a Grammar Nazi Emoticon?
    Photoshop a book or something onto my little buddy
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

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