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Thread: Why Trump may not be bad

  1. #1

    Default Why Trump may not be bad

    TL;DR - He's a big fat liar - and a lot of wishful thinking.

    Having gotten over the shock and disappointment of seeing the US vote for the orange buffoon, I'm trying to look for silver linings - of which there are actually a fair number that Trump may actually turn into somebody reasonable. There are lots of reasons, well-rehearsed, that he could and probably will be a total disaster. But trying to look on the bright side ...

    1: Can he change tack now he's elected?
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade in February View Post
    A while back (can't remember which thread) someone questioned if I really thought that the prospect of a Trump presidency was less scary than the prospect of Corbyn as Prime Minister, for which I'm entirely serious - Corbyn is an extremist true believer whereas Trump is a populist who could roll back from his extremes in reality if elected.

    This BBC review of the candidates kind of matches what I'm thinking: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-35413871 - The right-wing American equivalent of Corbyn isn't Trump from the sound of it, it is Cruz. Though at least Cruz doesn't seem to hate his own country but he is the closest equivalent I can see rather than Trump.
    Fuzzy then made an entirely appropriate I think comparison between Trump and Berlusconi.

    Trump has done what he felt he had to do to win the election, but does he really believe it? Is it really how he'll govern? If he was a true believer then yes, but I don't believe he is, I think worst case he's a narcissistic demagogue rather than a totalitarian. Best case he's a cynical opportunist who saw a window and took it.

    2: His relationship with the Clintons.

    Largely related to point 1, but he was a long-term friend of the Clintons. Not something you'd expect from either his whole "Crooked Hillary" campaign, the way he's portrayed himself or the way he's been portrayed by both fans and opponents. In his victory speech his language to Hillary was gracious as one might expect from a victory speech but I think there was some sincerity to it that there couldn't be if he was the extremist portrayed. Again with the comparison of "true believers" like Corbyn [and maybe Cruz] it is hard to see them using such language.
    I’ve just received a call from Secretary Clinton. She congratulated us — it’s about us — on our victory, and I congratulated her and her family on a very, very hard-fought campaign. I mean, she — she fought very hard.Hillary has worked very long and very hard over a long period of time and we owe her a major debt of gratitude for her service to our country. I mean that very sincerely.
    3: His business empire and its influence on Trade.

    Most career politicians have their political career behind them and potentially an opportunity to make an after dinner speech career in front of them (with companies like Goldman Sachs etc that Clinton already had behind her too). Trump has a business empire already. If there is a truly devastating 1930s style trade war with the rest of the world that has been implied by him by his campaigning then that would not just damage the economy of the USA and the global economy, it would also damage Trump's own fiscal empire. Hopefully this conflict of interest plays to our advantage.

    4: "They misunderestimated me" - Bush, Nov 2000

    Like Bush, Trump's campaign was "misunderestimated" [sic]. The day before the election we were wondering on another political blog I go to why Trump was holding rally's in Wisconsin, Michigan and other states like that. The polls were suggesting these were a Clinton lock and he should be going to other states to maximise his electoral college votes (especially since beating Romney's tally was viewed to be his real target, not 270 votes). The consensus view was that he was acting irrationally because that's who he is and that he'd fired his pollster so was flying blind. In reality though he knew better than the pundits and the "experts" and the rest of us commentators. There was method to the apparent madness.

    5: Delegation

    A President is bit like a CEO. He can give guidance, set the tone, set policies and directions but ultimately won't be doing the day to day operations. Needs to know how to delegate. Again as a businessman, Trump should understand this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  2. #2
    If he did what he had to do to win, it's not unreasonable to think that he'll do what he has to do to stay in power and then win again, and I see little reason to think that's likely to change considering the views of the electorate and considering the fact that Republicans control congress completely.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  3. #3
    Obama won an initial victory on "Hope and Change", Trump won a victory on "Make America Great Again". In 2012 though Obama had to run on his own record and not on Bush's. Same in 2020, Trump (if he wants to run again) is going to have to run on his own record and not by campaigning against "the establishment". Which brings me to my final point that I forgot to write in the OP.

    6: Trump is 70.

    The Presidency ages people but Trump is already a septuagenarian. Who knows if he'll even be fit to run again in 2020 let alone want to. He may prefer to make the most of the next four years rather than worry about re-election taking him to when he will be 78.

    Plus the flip side of this is that until 18 months ago Trump was much more moderate. A Reagan Republican, then a registered Democrat in recent years, a long term friend of the Clintons. Someone who chose Bill Clinton as his favourite recent President over the Bush's. Someone who left the Reform Party because of the involvement of Duke. If Trump was a fascist authoritarian demagogue would he really have waited until he was 70 to demonstrate it?

    Who knows, but will the real Donald Trump please stand up? And please, please, please not be the Donald of the last 12 months. As I said wishful thinking, but there is a margin to wish with him which there isn't with lifetime extremists.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #4
    If there's one thing you learn from people running on a far right platform, it's that they're serious. They might or might not really believe the crap they spout, but they sure as hell try to implement it.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  5. #5
    When Trump was looking for a VP people were claiming he was willing to give that person control of both domestic and foreign affairs. So Pence is the one to look out for. Pence has already replaced Chris Christie as the head honcho for the transition team. And the people he is picking are all DC insiders, so tough titties to everyone who voted for Trump as anti-establishment.

    I still stand by my claim that the GOP is looking to create a 10 year Pence presidency. The GOP will find some way to impeach Trump, likely from one of the 75 legal battles he still faces, and the Dems will play right in to it.
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 01-30-2017 at 11:31 PM.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  6. #6
    What the GOP wants and what the GOP will get from Trump are not the same.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  7. #7
    First, it was Trump wasn't going to win the nomination. Then he wasn't going to win the presidency. Now, he's not going to be a bad president?
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    First, it was Trump wasn't going to win the nomination. Then he wasn't going to win the presidency. Now, he's not going to be a bad president?
    Oh, he's going to be a bad president. He just might not be an unmitigated disaster as president. There's room between bad and catastrophe.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  9. #9
    Catastrophe for who, is the question. Even a moderated version of his platform is going to fuck a lot of people over.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Catastrophe for who, is the question. Even a moderated version of his platform is going to fuck a lot of people over.
    Obama was a catastrophe for some people too. The US is large enough, and has enough impact globally to boot, that you can guarantee there will always be SOMEONE who is getting wholly screwed by the current President, in addition to all those getting fucked over inadvertently or incidentally. I would say that it is unlikely Trump will be a catastrophe for America as a whole.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  11. #11
    Which people?
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Catastrophe for who, is the question. Even a moderated version of his platform is going to fuck a lot of people over.
    I'm cool with fucking over illegal aliens and the businesses that hire them. I'm even more cool with fucking over sanctuary cities.

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