Toyota's Massive Global Recall

[GGT]

Reports now saying between 5-9 million cars are involved, including Europe and China.

Will Toyoda survive?

I don't know much about auto engineering, but how is it that there isn't more cross-over in other manufacturers (besides the couple of models in GM that share the same parts and system) and their accelerators also failing?

[']['ear]

The funny thing is that Toyota has pretty much been the best auto maker for years. I'd still buy a Toyota. They last twice as long as most other cars, are fuel efficient, and safe. It's not like this doesn't happen to lots of other makers. Which one was it that had a risk of catching fire?

Still, if you're going to make a recall error, this is a horrible one.

[agamemnus]

The funny thing is that Toyota has pretty much been the best auto maker for years. I'd still buy a Toyota. They last twice as long as most other cars, are fuel efficient, and safe. It's not like this doesn't happen to lots of other makers. Which one was it that had a risk of catching fire?

Still, if you're going to make a recall error, this is a horrible one.

They might last long, but they are neither fuel-efficient, safe, or clean when they are old. I see junker 10-20 year old Toyotas all over the place, and they all belch exhaust at amazing rate. Granted, this is less now that we got "cash for clunkers" to replace those -$5000 cars.

[Ominous Gamer]

The Vibe and Matrix are the same car, so the Vibe got hit as well.

From what I understand its a simple fix that involves "inserting a metal shim into a gap in the friction lever of the pedal" for cars that are already on the road. Dealerships have been fixing the cars for months already. The fix is different for all the models that Toyota stopped production on and haven't been sold to dealers yet. Sort of like the massive recall Ford just started so they could add a twist tie to some wires to stop your engine from exploding. The problem sounds bad, but the fix is quick and cheap. The expensive part will be mailing out all those "YOU CAR IS AT RISK" recall notices.

Knowing how American cars have pretty much pulled equal in quality over the past couple of years, makes me happy I went with a Saturn over a Camry, or a Honda Fit, which is also under recall now for fire problems.

[Being]

I find it rather disconcerting that a California Highway Patrol officer didn't have the presence of mind to put his accelerating vehicle in neutral or shut it off when he found himself in such a predicament.

Toyota recall

Between 2006 and November 2009, there were a total of 5 deaths...Four of those deaths occurred in a single incident: the August 2009 crash that killed an off-duty California Highway patrolman and his family in a Lexus, the agency said.

And I can't find it now but he made a 911 call during the incident that was recorded where near the end he is heard saying "hold on...we're going to crash".

I guess our Highway Patrol Academy isn't very good.

[Ominous Gamer]

You don't shut your out of control car off when you're speeding down the highway....

[Being]

Really? Brakes still work, steering still works. Why would you not shut it off? In fact that is Toyota's interim solution for those who ask what to do.

[Ominous Gamer]

In fact that is Toyota's interim solution for those who ask what to do.

Actually Toyota says to put the car in neutral before trying to shut it off.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2...loor-mats.html

Shift the transmission gear selector to the Neutral (N) position and use the brakes to make a controlled stop at the side of the road and turn off the engine.

If unable to put the vehicle in Neutral, turn the engine OFF, or to ACC. This will not cause loss of steering or braking control, but the power assist to these systems will be lost.

EDIT:
As GGT already pointed out...

[Being]

Actually Toyota says to put the car in neutral before trying to shut it off.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2...loor-mats.html

As GGT already pointed out...

Neutral is not Park and you can't get the key to the lock position unless you are in Park.

[Ominous Gamer]

Neutral is not Park and you can't get the key to the lock position unless you are in Park.

Since you're still stuck on this lock position, even after you ate your words on what Toyota said to do...

-If the vehicle is equipped with a conventional key-ignition, turn the ignition key to the ACC position to turn off the engine. Do NOT remove the key from the ignition as this will lock the steering wheel.

Which just happens to be the default knee-jerk reaction when shutting your car off.

[Ominous Gamer]

You're flying down the road in an out of control car, are you really going to pay attention how far you turn the key to make sure you don't lock the steering wheel? Tried driving without power steering? And for newer cars, how many know the power button code to shut off your engine?

Its never been recommended to shut the car off when its out of your control.
Consumer Reports even says not to shut the car off.

[Being]

You're flying in an out of control car, are you really going to pay attention how far you turn the key to make sure you don't lock the steering wheel?

Its never been recommended to shut the car off when its out of your control.
Consumer Reports even says not to shut the car off.

You're going to need to show me a car that lets you turn your key to the lock position when it's not in 'Park'.

And Consumer Reports is not Toyota.

[GGT]

They've said to jam on the breaks with both feet (not pump) and put the engine in neutral. Then you're supposed to turn the ignition to ACC so you don't lose steering power. But if you have one of those button ignitions, hold it for 3 seconds and shut the engine off.

[Ominous Gamer]

But if you have one of those button ignitions, hold it for 3 seconds and shut the engine off.

This is different per make and model.

[GGT]

Point is, it's a bit complicated and really confusing. I have yet to hear them distinguish between manual and automatic transmissions.

[GGT]

You guys fighting about what to do just shows how poorly Toyota has handled this.

Glad you're not cruising down the freeway at 70 mph.....

[Being]

You guys fighting about what to do just shows how poorly Toyota has handled this.

Glad you're not cruising down the freeway at 70 mph.....

You'd be obstructing traffic at that speed around here.

[Tempus Vernum]

Oh good, doesn't look like my car is in the list of affected vehicles.

I'd still by a Toyota even after this, their cars last forever, my cousin now has the 1988 Corolla I owned, she gets to learn how to drive a car with no power steering

[Being]

The head of Toyota (his name is Toyoda btw) finally speaks to the public about the recall,

He was seen driving off in a black Audi

That's a little disconcerting, even he won't ride in a Toyota.

[Ominous Gamer]

Consumer Reports drops the recommended rating from Toyota, and everyone but Honda is offering some sort of trade in bonus for giving up your Toyota.
Not a good week for Toyota

[']['ear]

Look, neutral HAS to work. The drive train is no longer engaged.

OG, Consumer Reports disagrees with you about American cars pulling even. This years top car makes in terms of reliability were almost all Japanese. Glad to see Mazda has recovered from their insanity of the late 90s and early noughts to make good cars again.

You actually bought a Saturn over a Toyota? Good luck with that. When Saturn first started, sure. But GM meddled with them too much and their product declined.

[littlelolligagged]

God. I'd still buy a Toyota over anything American.

[Ominous Gamer]

You're stuck about 5 years in the past tear.

Can't realy argue againist Ford's $3 billion 09 profit either. American as a brand seems to be doing fine.

[']['ear]

You're stuck about 5 years in the past tear.

Then so is Consumer's Reports. Honda and Toyota were the top makers over the last few years.

Can't realy argue againist Ford's $3 billion 09 profit either.

Doesn't mean it's a good car, it means they've managed to get people to buy them. Amazing how often people manage to confuse those two....

American as a brand seems to be doing fine.

Tell it to GM. Ford has been the strongest of the big 3 for years now, so not surprising they weathered the storm best. And when the gas prices next skyrocket, people will stop buying those monstrous aircraft carriers that Ford calls SUVs.

[Ominous Gamer]

Appears the news has begun calling this throttlegate. Thats lame.

The class action lawsuits have begun; and the fact that reports show Toyota knew about the problem since 2004 isn't going to help matters. That Toyota is getting sued by its own lawyers for withholding or destroying evidence in other lawsuits during the rollover problems is only going to add to Toyota's problems.

Peugeot and Citroen join Pontiac in the Toyota pedal recall.

GM, Ford, Hyundia and now Chrysler are all offering incentives to ditch Toyota.

Car & Driver also went into why shutting your car off during uncontrolled acceleration is a big no-no.

causes a loss of power-steering assist, plus it will cut off vacuum boost for the brakes.

Shutting the car off not only makes it harder to steer, but also harder to stop. Thats exactly what you need to worry about in an out of control car.

Another fun fact? Toyota's push button shut off has such a long delay, that if you push it when the car hits 60, the car doesn't shut off till you're doing almost 80 mph.
Panic button pushing in a Toyota does nothing, but in Nissans it kills the engine for you. Nissans also have a shorter "hold button to kill engine" window.

[Ominous Gamer]

That Toyota is getting sued by its own lawyers for withholding or destroying evidence in other lawsuits during the rollover problems is only going to add to Toyota's problems.

Oh man, did I call this one:
House goes after Toyota over whistleblower documents, claiming this

indicates a systematic disregard for the law and routine violation of court discovery orders in litigation. People injured in crashes involving Toyota vehicles may have been injured a second time when Toyota failed to produce relevant evidence in court," Towns wrote.
"Moreover, this also raises very serious questions as to whether Toyota has also withheld substantial, relevant information from NHTSA.

Article also mentions several times of a "Book of Knowledge" (concerning design and testing data) that Toyota appears willing to pay dearly for in order to keep it secret.

This is turning into some soap opera type shit.

[Being]

Oh man, did I call this one:
House goes after Toyota over whistleblower documents, claiming this

Article also mentions several times of a "Book of Knowledge" (concerning design and testing data) that Toyota appears willing to pay dearly for in order to keep it secret.

This is turning into some soap opera type shit.

I see a rebound coming for GMC. We might even see dividends on our tax returns.

[Ominous Gamer]

I see a rebound coming for GMC. We might even see dividends on our tax returns.

I don't know about GM or Chrysler; I do know that Ford is doing great. The big winner however is going to be Kia and Hyundia. I think those were the only 2 to not post a decline in sales last year, Toyota's troubles are just icing on the cake for them.

[Ominous Gamer]

The number reports should be popping up in a day or so, should be interesting to see how the snow storms and Toyota mess combine to alter purchasing trends.

I see a rebound coming for GMC. We might even see dividends on our tax returns.

You mentioned American, and I added Korean; but we both left out Nissan and Honda. Do you think Toyota's problems are going to have a ripple effect againist the other guys sharing Godzilla's home?

[GGT]

Neutral + ACC isn't the same as turning off the ignition, is it? If you turn the key all the way off, the power steering locks. I could test it, but I have a manual transmission Toyota Yaris.