XBOX Terms of Use Console Ban???

[Veldan Rath]

I just got hit with a console ban!

I've never modded (I wouldn't know even where to begin) my system and I buy or rent retail games.

I went to the XBOX website and all you get on on the forums is WE ARE NEVER WRONG. The expect people to buy new consoles????

WTF? Anyone deal with these No Customer Service Goons? I've reached out to tech support, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Ominous Gamer]

Your new son play on it?

I know there is a forum where you can ask, and someone may explain to you in somewhat detail about why. They are always coming across the WTF and Gaming areas of reddit.

EDIT:
http://forums.xbox.com/xbox_forums/x...port/f/41.aspx

[Veldan Rath]

The Boy is only interested in playing, he does not go into the dashboard.

WRT the forum, it keeps eating my posts saying there is a glitch.

I'm thinking they have screwed the pooch and are circling their wagons.

[Wraith]

Did they give any clues as to why you were banned?

WRT the forum, it keeps eating my posts saying there is a glitch.

I'm thinking they have screwed the pooch and are circling their wagons.

Chances are, it probably actually is just a glitch.

[Veldan Rath]

Did they give any clues as to why you were banned?


Chances are, it probably actually is just a glitch.

Nope, not yet

[CitizenCain]

Maybe you should read some of those forum threads no why other people got banned to see if there's anything there it could have been. I clicked through a bunch of them, and some of the reasons are exceptionally stupid.

Like having anything connected to your console or "gamertag" that anyone anywhere might find offensive or believe to be a hint/abbreviation of something that could possibly be offensive:

This account was suspended due to content in the Motto, Bio, Name and or location fields which violated the following section of the Code of Conduct:

Don’t create a Gamertag, profile content, or in-game content that other users may be offended by, this includes comments that look, sound like, stand for, hint at, abbreviate, or insinuate any of the following: profane words/phrases, topics or content of a sexual nature, hate speech (including but not limited to racial, ethnic, or religious slurs), illegal drugs/controlled substances, or illegal activities.



Honestly, shit like this is exactly why I don't own or want to own any console gaming systems (because you never really own them), but best o' luck to you. And hey, if your console stays banned, at least you have a system you can get modded without fear of the ban hammer.

[Wraith]

That's kinda fucked up, if they wouldn't even give a reason for it when they banned you. I have no experience in this type of thing, so I can't offer any advice, but best of luck in getting this resolved.

[Veldan Rath]

Well again their canned stonewalled response is WE ARE NEVER WRONG, OUT BAN SYSTEM IS 100% ACCURATE

[Veldan Rath]

Now they have the balls to send me my subscription renewal notice...

[Hazir]

Now they have the balls to send me my subscription renewal notice...

Don't pay and wait untill they call you.

[agamemnus]

Now they have the balls to send me my subscription renewal notice...

It's more like Microsoft's XBox service does not have office integration... like many big companies that take people's money without much work, they are effectively lazy...

[Veldan Rath]

Hi Veldan Rath,

My name is XXXX. Thank you for contacting Customer Support for Xbox.

As I understand you having issues with your console being banned. I understand how it feels not being able to use and play with your console on Xbox Live. I would be glad to assist you with your issue.

Your Xbox console has been banned for one or more violations of the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use. We cannot undo your console’s suspension. To protect the Xbox LIVE service and Xbox LIVE members, we do not provide details about a specific console banning.


Microsoft will not ban a console without overwhelming evidence that the console was used to violate the Code of Conduct or the Terms of Use. For more information about our policies and reasons why consoles are suspended, together with frequently asked questions, please visit www.xbox.com/consoleban


Consoles can be banned from Xbox LIVE for several reasons including, but not limited to the following reasons:
• Console tampering: Physically opening the Xbox console and modifying it to play illegitimate software.
• Online fraud: Attempting to social engineer users, take over Xbox LIVE accounts, or perform other fraudulent activities.
• Repeat egregious violations: Multiple actions taken on accounts on the console by the Enforcement team for disrupting the service or impacting users.

If you recently bought a new Xbox 360 console and the console has been banned, it’s possible that the retailer unintentionally sold you a used console. This situation is common with consoles bought from online auction or trading sites, and with stores that sell used consoles. Rarely, a large retail store might unintentionally sell a returned console. If you feel this has occurred, contact the seller to request a return or an exchange.


We at email support and live phone support team will be unable to provide you any information as to why your console is banned. We will neither be able to remove bans from any consoles.


I hope I was able to provide you all the information that you need.

For US and Canada, feel free to give us a call at 1-800-4MY-XBOX .

Thank you for visiting Xbox.com. If you should have future questions on Xbox products or services, visit us again at our support site www.support.xbox.com as we are continually adding information to enhance our service.

Best Regards,
XXX
Xbox Customer Support

So no one will say why, and I can't talk to any one about it. I really love how they are saying this is to protect XBOX Live Members. Ummm HELLO!

[CitizenCain]

So no one will say why, and I can't talk to any one about it.

Wow. Talk about suck. Sorry 'bout your luck, but thanks for the update. Successfully convinced me out of even considering buying a console platform at any price. Before reading that console ban info, I might have considered getting one to hack on and use occasionally, if it was really, really cheap. But not anymore.

[Illusions]

Before reading that console ban info, I might have considered getting one to hack on and use occasionally, if it was really, really cheap. But not anymore.

You can hack it all you want and still play games, you just won't be able to use XBOX Live.

[Veldan Rath]

And now I can't access my account to stop the renewal.

[Ominous Gamer]

killing an auto renewal has always been something Microsoft only allows over the phone unless you're lucky enough be somewhere that requires it to be online by law

[Veldan Rath]

Guess I'm one of the lucky ones

[CitizenCain]

Right, I can play games offline. Which I can also do on my PC. Which is much faster and modable and generally better in every way to a gaming console, except in connecting to the MS/Sony network to game online, which is much better with a console. Except for the fact that they apparently ban consoles for some reason they won't disclose or undo. Which would be why I'll no longer entertain getting one at any price, thanks to what Veldan shared about his experience.

[Ominous Gamer]

Right, I can play games offline. Which I can also do on my PC. Which is much faster and modable and generally better in every way to a gaming console, except in connecting to the MS/Sony network to game online, which is much better with a console. Except for the fact that they apparently ban consoles for some reason they won't disclose or undo. Which would be why I'll no longer entertain getting one at any price, thanks to what Veldan shared about his experience.

Any service that allows for controlled online multiplayer behaves the same way. Even on the PC. Just look at Steam's VAC.

[CitizenCain]

Any service that allows for controlled online multiplayer behaves the same way. Even on the PC. Just look at Steam's VAC.

Which would also explain why I don't use Steam.

But more to the general point, Valve [Steam] can't really ban my PC anyhow - they can try, but since it's trivial to present basically any hardware IDs and or OS parameters I want to, they really can't do anything other than revoke my user ID. As I understand things, it's fairly difficult to do that with a console, and they force updates down to connecting consoles to catch and ban modded ones, to make things suck even more. Can't really force down that firmware or hardware-level authentication and authorization on a PC platform, given how varied individual PC hardware is.

Really not looking to start a which gaming platform is better debate - just saying why I didn't like consoles to start with, and that now I wouldn't even spend a mangled penny for one.

[Ominous Gamer]

Which would also explain why I don't use Steam.

Steam was just one of the better examples. As I said, any system that controls for multiplayer acts like this.
Its gotten to the point that PC bans can result in total non-functionality of the account and or games tied to it. EA made a splash a few months ago because Dragon Age forum bans were removing single player access. There is also the problem for how charge backs or payment snafus can disable entire collections of games through services like Steam, Origin, D2D, etc. (News outlets are claiming the recent round of console bans are based around 'Marketplace theft'‎).

Really not looking to start a which gaming platform is better debate - just saying why I didn't like consoles to start with, and that now I wouldn't even spend a mangled penny for one.

So the complaint isn't really about how they police their service, its that their hardware only works (online) through their service.

[CitizenCain]

So the complaint isn't really about how they police their service, its that their hardware only works (online) through their service.

Yeah, that's spot on. You "buy" this hardware... but then don't really own it because you're restricted to using it specifically in the way MS or Sony (or Apple, with their devices) sees fit, and if you don't, they brick it. So not only is the way you can use "your" hardware restricted, it can be remotely destroyed (well, rendered inoperable) at the whim of the manufacturer. And, same reason I don't buy Steam protected games - they can nuke them remotely for "ToS" violations.

Try pulling that shit with any other object, and see how far that flies.

"Dear customer, your LA-Z-BOY recliner has been remotely deactivated for violating the LA-Z-BOY Inc., ToS in the following manner:

Having sexual intercourse on your couch."

But people accept this from electronics manufacturers.

(Sorry if I'm being more obtuse than usual... I'm tired as hell, but posting to give my eyes and brain a break from masses of CLI tables and lists I need to process before Monday. Blech.)

[Illusions]

Right, I can play games offline. Which I can also do on my PC. Which is much faster and modable and generally better in every way to a gaming console, except in connecting to the MS/Sony network to game online, which is much better with a console. Except for the fact that they apparently ban consoles for some reason they won't disclose or undo. Which would be why I'll no longer entertain getting one at any price, thanks to what Veldan shared about his experience.

"I entertained the thought of buying a console so I can do two things with it. One is playing on their servers, and the other is something that violates their TOS regarding my console being allowed to play on their servers, and now that I've found out this might result in me not getting to play on their servers I'm not going to buy one."

Oh, okay I guess. Thanks for the input.

[Wraith]

Veldan, it's probably too late to help you now, but I sent you something in PMs last night.

[agamemnus]

They accept it from software publishers and have for about a decade; why not hardware?

Eventually, you will be locked out of your house because you were banned by the iHouse software for a Terms of Service violation. When you try to enter via breaking a window, the iHouse software will automatically enter a mode to ensure that the IP owners are protected: by starting a fire which engulfs the entire house. Hey, it's in the ToS. The moral of the story is: "Next time, don't buy iHouse software!"

[Catgrrl]

The fact that they can't/won't give you a straight reason is unbelievably shitty customer service. I'm not very savvy on the online gameplay, but I would hope they would account for possible mistakes in banning. Just like a forum would?

Is there any way to take this up the chain of command, or was that person's reply the be-all-end-all?

[CitizenCain]

The fact that they can't/won't give you a straight reason is unbelievably shitty customer service. I'm not very savvy on the online gameplay, but I would hope they would account for possible mistakes in banning. Just like a forum would?

Is there any way to take this up the chain of command, or was that person's reply the be-all-end-all?

It's probably the end of the line. With tens of millions of users, the vast, vast majority of whom are obnoxious, whiny teenaged piles of human filth who get banned for good cause, I'd be surprised if there was any kind of appeals process at all, because it would be flooded with those kinds of asshats bitching.

Microsoft doesn't do this. You're only restricted to using it in a certain way if you want to use Microsoft's services. This would be more like me selling you a paintball gun, then letting you use my paintball field so long as you don't modify it in any way. If you then show up with a fully automatic assault rifle, I ban you. Just like the paintball field is my private property, XBox Live Servers are Microsoft's property. You can still hack your XBox all you want, and Microsoft isn't going to brick it, you just aren't going to get any further support or services from them.

Oh, I see. Nevermind me, then. The idea of being arbitrarily and irrevocably banned from using the only useful function I see in the game console will probably still keep me from ever owning one, but at least it's not quite as bad as I thought... maybe I will buy one if I can pick it up for $20 or whatever. Thanks for the clarification.

[RandBlade]

That sucks Veldan.

Oh, I see. Nevermind me, then. The idea of being arbitrarily and irrevocably banned from using the only useful function I see in the game console will probably still keep me from ever owning one, but at least it's not quite as bad as I thought... maybe I will buy one if I can pick it up for $20 or whatever. Thanks for the clarification.

I've never played online on the console, single-player only. Don't have a Live subscription.

[CitizenCain]

I've never played online on the console, single-player only. Don't have a Live subscription.

Sure, but single player on a console isn't a useful function to me when I've got a computer that can run the same games much faster and better than a console can.

[Khendraja'aro]

The "we don't tell you the reason" argument is not even a good one. First all, modders and hackers know that they modded and hacked their box. Likewise cheaters, trolls and griefers will know what they did.

Because the idea is "if we don't tell you, hackers will be left in the dark if we detected their hacking". Which of course does not work for the reasons above. I'm not sure who came up with this idea but it was not a very clever person.