Yes
No
Is not paying for parking a moral transgression?
Under the following conditions, is it morally wrong to skip paying for parking?
- No wardens seem to be about
- Machine does not give change and I don't have the exact amount
- I don't feel like paying
- Machine is all the way over there
- It's raining
- I won't be there long anyway
Give reasons for your answer.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Morality is based on fundamentally arbitrary axioms, ergo your question cannot have a single-valued answer.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
I demand inflexible absolutes.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Okay, here's your absolute:Originally Posted by Steely Glint
Bananas.
You're welcome!
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Give reasons for your answer.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
I'm sure the herp-derp crowd will get right on that once they're online
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
I await with great eagerness.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
It's morally wrong to unnecessarily expose yourself to the risk of getting a hefty fine.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
It was an okay enough album, what's your problem man
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
If you believe in a subjective morality the answer to all moral questions is Nessie's.
However, I think here is what's agreeable within society. I think it's understood socially that the spirit of the law, on paying the meter is for reasonable ability to pay it, and enough effort could offset the rule. For example: I think most would avoid paying it if they only had bills, and were only staying there shortly. For my morality comes in violating the spirit of the law which you agreed to, over the letter. Now dont' try to intentionally abuse it, by convieniently forgetting to bring change each time, then you'd still be in the wrong morally.
The spirit of the law being: to prevent people from eating up a lot of time in a high parking velocity area with limited space.
I get the impression you're trying to lead us to the answer you want to hear.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Whose morality? Lewkowski's its probably either a transgression worthy of anything from an ass beating to death, where-as if its Cainian it was probably morally reprehensible for not driving to and from the lot completely drunk. GGT, its likely morally reprehensible that you didn't regale us with a time where you parked your car, forgot where it was for two weeks, then came back to find it wasn't there, and then got angry at the tow truck company that they were actually going to make you pay to release your car from the impound lot. Hazirian, were the parking rules implemented by an EU approved court of law, and the meters installed by an EU approved body? If not, then they can be thoroughly ignored, however if they were, they are the most sensible things ever, even if it costs a million euros a minute for parking, and a midget must dance on your car while its parked there, but only on Saturdays.
. . .
And then there's the Illusions-system where you never actually get to the point of getting out of your parked car
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
He did say it was raining.And then there's the Illusions-system where you never actually get to the point of getting out of your parked car
. . .
Not paying for parking is certainly a crime. The fundamental question, then, is whether any crime is necessarily a moral failing as well. In principle, one might argue that in a democracy laws are the representation of the will of society in ordering its members' lives. As such, one might conceivably argue that any criminal act would then also be an immoral one.
I am not convinced by this logic. That doesn't mean that this specific situation is a moral one, but then it all comes down to the specifics of a situation. There are many laws in democracies that should not be followed (or may be ignored) - for example, open discrimination. Other laws may be on the books but are so widely flouted that they have effectively lost any meaning as a societal choice (e.g. jaywalking, blue laws).
Last edited by wiggin; 10-14-2012 at 05:03 AM.
Why?
Because, fuck you, that's why.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
I think it depends upon the situation.
If its for example a city centre multi-story car park that has been built for that purpose, is clean, well-lit and maintained, CCTV etc then a real service is being provided and I think its right to pay.
If its for example a dingy centuries old road with rubbish down it that somebody has just stuck an A4 sign up saying "pay or else" then no:
Is that good logic? I think that if someone produces a substandard good and are charging too much for it, it's entirely reasonable to avoid using that good. It is less reasonable, however, to just take the good, no?
I recognize this isn't a strict case of theft since parking spots are more of a common good in most municipalities, but following your basic logic this seems to be the conclusion.
I think I said it long-windedly, but essentially you just need to ask yourself if you're violating the spirit of the reason they have parking meters there. If you are, then what you're doing is immoral and illegal, if you are not then I think you're fine, morally. You may have to still pay a fine if caught, but i think morally you're fine.
The issue I have is where you get sharks putting up signs on roads they've done nothing to produce or maintain. EG where I used to work a resident put lots of signs up in the car park near her house threatening clamping as she was "fed up of drug dealers" using it (I never saw any). It was public land she had no right to do that, if I ever had need to park there I'd feel free to just park there.
I rather choose the more eloquent:
Because Batman.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
I'd have to weigh being lazy vs how much I'd want to pay a fine (if caught, even if the odds are low) for being lazy. That's not really a morality question. That's just a human being question.
Edit to mention that I spent some time earlier watching a "reality" show about parking citations....I think it was called Parking Wars. It followed parking officials ("wardens") in NY, Detroit, LA, and RI as they drove around looking for parking infractions. What struck me most was that some cities have NO STANDING street zones.
That show was followed by another "reality" show about tow-truck companies, who are hired by private companies to monitor their parking lots and tow the "offenders". Blockbuster, Citibank, coffee shops, apartment complexes, etc. Some weird stuff. If you can catch them during the hook-up, you can pay a fee to "drop" the car. Otherwise, you have to pay a larger fee (sometimes more than double) to retrieve it from the municipal depot tow lot.
Last edited by GGT; 10-14-2012 at 05:26 AM.
You just outed yourself as a drug dealer.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure selling drugs is illegal.
Hope is the denial of reality
Morally, probably not, especially if it's quick and no one is around.
Legally, well not so much I suppose.
Ok, I'm doing grades now.
Nessus did not answer the question or give a reason. F
Minx gave an answer but no reasons D
Khendraja'aro: no idea what he's talking about. Assume it's all non-sense. F
LittleFuzzy: Shuddup
Illusions gave other people's answers and no reasons F
wiggin gave reasons for his answer but no actual answer. Somehow. And the managed to have a some what sensible discussion on the topic. Somehow. C
GGT gave an answer but no reason, then went on about some kind of anecdote do with reality TV I think. E
RandBlade gave answers but no reasons, then uses the thread to moan about his incredibly shitty neighborhood, which was used, after suitable gentrification, for shooting on location scenes in Threads, a harrowing 1980s BBC drama about the aftermath of nuclear war. E
Loki accused RandBlade of dealing drugs. D
Dreadnaught gave an answer but no reasons. D
Basically, you were all crap. wiggin had the highest grade and he is like a professor or something, I think?
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
You didn't say it was a graded test!
*No wardens seem to be about
~You should still follow the rules, even when no one is watching. Maybe especially when no one is watching. 'Honesty is a virtue'.
*Machine does not give change and I don't have the exact amount*
~ You should still pay and lose some pithy change. No parking machine gives refunds for un-used time, either. Rules are rules, laws are laws. You don't get to cherry-pick which ones are convenient. 'Integrity is its own reward'.
Those are the only choices that have a moral dilemma. The others are just related to laziness and, unless you consider sloth to be a moral transgression, aren't really about moral choices.
My anecdotes were about the schemes used by parking authorities (including private) simply to get revenue. Giving tickets on minute 16 of a 15 minute zone, towing a car for being 19 1/2 feet (instead of 20 feet) from a crosswalk, that type of thing. Those can be "moral transgressions" from the other side of parking.
Firstly its not my neighbourhood (not disagreeing on the incredibly shitty though, that place is a dump). But Loki gets a higher grade for that?
Anyway I did give a reason, those who provide a good service and pay for it should get paid back. Those who just try and take payments from the backs of others should not
If you'd like an actual answer: I think in general we should do our best to follow the law, and that this is a moral imperative... even if the law is pretty silly. I particularly feel that way with respect to the government's ability to regulate common goods (e.g. parking spaces and roads) and raise revenues for providing common goods (e.g. taxes, fines, parking levies, etc.). Even if the impact is fairly small, I personally believe that to flout such laws leads to a culture of impunity.
I do make exceptions to this general rule, though, so wouldn't say it applies universally: see my discussion above re: laws that are inherently immoral or which are widely disregarded.
Also, teach, is there any way I could do some... extra credit? I'd do anything to improve my grades.
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