Are You An Extremist?

[EyeKhan]

First, housekeeping:

1. No, I'm not sure this belongs in D&D. If it turns out nothing serious comes of it, mods please move.

2. Yes, I know extremism is relative and shifts according to the cultural flow.

Ok, now the topic. Do you think your political and social views are extreme? Some people here seem genuinely extreme, others come off as extreme but I doubt they are. Here's what I think, starting with me:

Me -- not politically extreme, though liberaal. Extremely liberal socially.

Rand -- seems genuinely politically extreme to the right, not sure about social.

Loki -- only seems extreme in how he argues, but does not appear to hold extreme political or social views. Depends on how you categorize atheism, though. Given the religous climate in the US, is atheism extreme?

Fuzzy -- politically moderate. Socially left but not extreme. One thing I can count on is for Fuzzy to tell me anything that seems a big deal in US politics really isn't.

GG -- very liberal politically for the US these days, and socially liberal, but IMHO not extreme.

Lewk -- religous extreme, but oddly libertarian on many hot button social issues. Certainly politically extreme. I'm still not sure how seriously Lewk takes all his more 'out there' positions, though.

Nessus -- Sorry Nessus, but in this context I almost think of you as the Anti-Lewk. And I'm not sure how seriously you take yourself.

Hazir -- liberal but not an extremist.

Aimless-- liberal on both but not what I'd call extreme...

Khen -- like Hazir, I guess. I get the impression he's a little less socially liberal but not sure.

Ziggy -- same. I guess. Maybe I don't see them as extreme b/c I'm mostly liberal myself.

AR81 -- seems politically extreme - what I read of his posts suggests a bit of conspiracy theorizing...

Catgrl -- no idea

Buk -- seems normal to me -- center left on both?

Steely -- left on both I think, but not extreme.

OG -- left on both. Not sure I would call him extreme.

QUESTION: What do you have to support to be Extreme Left? Command economy, confiscation of private assets, worker's paradise? If that's the case, I don't know anyone Extreme Left politically in the US.

Veldan -- not sure, think he's right on politics. Social?

Dread -- bordering on extreme right in politics. Not all that sure on social issues. I know he used to be lefty, way back when, on most things.

Enoch -- seems pretty right politcally -- not sure if extreme applies. Not sure about the social thing.

LDrag -- politically middle of the road I think but socially conservative. Not extreme.

DW -- Socially liberal but center right politically, I think. Maybe center left. But not extreme either way.

Wiggin -- politically moderate, no idea on social.

If I missed you, remind me. Comments requested. Interested in knowing what defines someone as Extreme Left Politicially.

[Nessus]

There's no need to apologize, I also think I'm an extremist, certainly from the US point of view but also possibly my own nation. But you should also bear in mind that I'm also extremely anti-Bolshevik, so there is plenty of Left left beyond me. As to the seriousNess, it's not exactly that which I perceive to be my problem.

[Loki]

I think the bigger problem here is people holding beliefs without being able to justify them. In terms of people having extreme beliefs, I'd say only Nessus and Enoch meet those requirements. I don't think Lewk has too many beliefs that are far outside the mainstream (which is my definition of extreme). Rand does a bit on some economic issues, but not really enough for me to classify him as being extreme. AR81 is just crazy.

[EyeKhan]

I think the bigger problem here is people holding beliefs without being able to justify them. In terms of people having extreme beliefs, I'd say only Nessus and Enoch meets those requirements. I don't think Lewk has too many beliefs that are far outside the mainstream (which is my definition of extreme). Rand does a bit on some economic issues, but not really enough for me to classify him as being extreme. AR81 is just crazy.

Regarding Lewk, I personally believe anyone that chooses Faith based beliefs over good science is an extremist, whether its social stuff like evolution or political like climate change. That was my basis for calling religous extremism.

Also, I had no idea Enoch was extreme - really havn't talked with him much, I guess.

[Lewkowski]

Regarding Lewk, I personally believe anyone that chooses Faith based beliefs over good science is an extremist, whether its social stuff like evolution or political like climate change. That was my basis for calling religous extremism.

Also, I had no idea Enoch was extreme - really havn't talked with him much, I guess.

I find it odd you find man made global warming skepticism to be extreme. Extreme fails to mean much if applies to more than 20% of the population. In addition even if one believe sin man made global warming - the proposed policies wouldn't fix it according to most of the models the alarmists have put forward.

[Aimless]

I find it odd you find man made global warming skepticism to be extreme. Extreme fails to mean much if applies to more than 20% of the population. In addition even if one believe sin man made global warming - the proposed policies wouldn't fix it according to most of the models the alarmists have put forward.

The extremism is in the lengths to which you'll go to deny science and uphold obstinate ignorance.

[Lewkowski]

I think the bigger problem here is people holding beliefs without being able to justify them. In terms of people having extreme beliefs, I'd say only Nessus and Enoch meet those requirements. I don't think Lewk has too many beliefs that are far outside the mainstream (which is my definition of extreme). Rand does a bit on some economic issues, but not really enough for me to classify him as being extreme. AR81 is just crazy.

I'd probably classify myself as being on the extreme end of the political spectrum in a few areas, in particular with my libertarian approach to economic issues and my very hawkish approach on foreign policy. Also fry em.

[Loki]

I'd probably classify myself as being on the extreme end of the political spectrum in a few areas, in particular with my libertarian approach to economic issues and my very hawkish approach on foreign policy. Also fry em.

About 60% of Californians just voted to fry 'em.

[Hazir]

About 60% of Californians just voted to fry 'em.

I read a very funny comment about that somewhere. Someone said he finally understood that California was right to ban 'Gay Marriage', they were in clear violation of Leviticus because they hadn't arranged for the 'stoned' part before.

[ar81]

Extremes are never good.
* If you have no money, you live in a worry as you can't make a living. If you have too much money, you live in constant fear of losing it or losing the value of your money, you may need a life as you have become a financial casino addict. Being rich is to have enough money not to worry about money. Not too much, not too little.
* Bailing out banks is often seen as right wing, where people see their property expropriated by banks, with or without a debt (i.e. robo-sign "mistakes"). In the extreme Spanish banking system, not only you lose your home, but also you keep half of the current debt. In the other extreme there is communism, that expropriates people's property at will, with or without reason, just like banks. However, under communism you lose your property but have no debt when you are homeless. In both, bancocracy and communist regimes, there is an elite of people living with extreme luxury, while the rest are having a struggle to survive.

Even if people have tried to blame religion as cause of extremism, as an excuse for abolishing religion, it should be noticed that there are non religious extremists. Politics also brings extremism, so in that case politics should be abolished.

The basic problem of extremism is that the system goes first, then human being welfare. So extremism is more like a bee hive, where everyone is but a brick on the wall. Anglosaxon cultura has lots of such hive extremism. Free market vs people in need after Sandy, bank bailouts vs bailing out americans... There are plenty of examples where anglosaxons pick the system and let people suffer.

[Nessus]

To be fair, Enoch is much, much more polite than I am

[Loki]

It's not accurate to equate extremist beliefs with poor behavior.

[Nessus]

It's not accurate to equate extremist beliefs with poor behavior.

I know, but extremist behaviour has some over-lap with rabidness on that Venn diagram

[Loki]

I know, but extremist behaviour has some over-lap with rabidness on that Venn diagram

It's a question of how far people's beliefs are from the societal norm. If a society has moderate policies, there's no reason for a moderate to advocate extreme measures. In an extreme society, someone who wants moderate policies would probably be more willing to use force than an extremist.

you can have faith without it being a lewk level of science denying faith.

About 60% of Americans don't believe in evolution.

[Nessus]

It's a question of how far people's beliefs are from the societal norm. If a society has moderate policies, there's no reason for a moderate to advocate extreme measures. In an extreme society, someone who wants moderate policies would probably be more willing to use force than an extremist.

I'm probably not reading this right, but how does this jive with, say, Berija's gardens?

[Loki]

Does it really make sense to call ~50-60% of Americans extremists? Kind of dilutes the power of the term, no?

He's about as extreme a libertarian as you can get without advocating anarchy.

[Wraith]

He's about as extreme a libertarian as you can get without advocating anarchy.

I was about to remind you about Cain, who is certainly more extreme than Enoch, but I realized I'm not actually sure he wasn't advocating anarchy.

[Ominous Gamer]

Does it really make sense to call ~50-60% of Americans extremists? Kind of dilutes the power of the term, no?

you can have faith without it being a lewk level of science denying faith. Climate change reached 70% support over this past summer.

[Khendraja'aro]

Does it really make sense to call ~50-60% of Americans extremists? Kind of dilutes the power of the term, no?

He's about as extreme a libertarian as you can get without advocating anarchy.

If 50% of a population hold an extreme view do the mere numbers actually make that view non-extreme?

[RandBlade]

If 50% of a population hold an extreme view do the mere numbers actually make that view non-extreme?

Yes. Extreme is subjective, not objective.

[Khendraja'aro]

Yes. Extreme is subjective, not objective.

That is most definitely not the case. An extreme punishment like torture or the death penalty will stay extreme, as in: The worst punishment available/possible. That's what it means: The end of the rope, no escalation possible. One could also argue that an extreme viewpoint is the one where no modicum of moderation is discernible.

Just like "no punishment for anything" would be the extreme opposite to this.

Just because the majority of the population slides around on the continuum between these two extremes doesn't make them any less extreme.

[RandBlade]

That is most definitely not the case. An extreme punishment like torture or the death penalty will stay extreme, as in: The worst punishment available/possible. That's what it means: The end of the rope, no escalation possible. One could also argue that an extreme viewpoint is the one where no modicum of moderation is discernible.

Just like "no punishment for anything" would be the extreme opposite to this.

Just because the majority of the population slides around on the continuum between these two extremes doesn't make them any less extreme.

So if 99.99% of the population believes the world is not flat is that an extremist belief because its an absolute?

If 60% of the population believe that serial killers should get the death penalty after a trial, 20% believe they should be incarcerated after a trial, while the remaining 20% believes that they should be summarily shot upon capture without a trial then within that population which is the moderate position and why?

[Wraith]

An extreme punishment like torture or the death penalty will stay extreme, as in: The worst punishment available/possible.

If you think the death penalty is the worst punishment possible, you sorely lack in imagination.

[Hazir]

If 50% of a population hold an extreme view do the mere numbers actually make that view non-extreme?

Well, it's a good question with no answer I think. Extremism is relative, but what if the center takes over its ideas? Like with the nazi's.

[Loki]

He also hasn't posted in a while; Guantanamo's internet access must have been revoked.

[Loki]

We're talking about your average supporter of an ideology. The people who come to power are generally not average.

[Aimless]

In the default state, before we get together to debate, almost no-one on this forum is an actual extremist besides Nessie and Cain, with Enoch and possibly Steely being distant seconds.

[Veldan Rath]

I'm in the Enoch camp.

[Aimless]

I'm in the Enoch camp.

I was gonna list you as the camp Enoch

[Veldan Rath]

I was gonna list you as the camp Enoch

Methinks I can live with that.

Dahhhling!