Why does society tolerate monsters?

[Lewkowski]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/04/...nts/index.html

*********************

Los Angeles, California (CNN) -- The parents of a California girl who was allegedly raped and killed by a registered sex offender are calling for tougher standards against repeat offenders.

"How many times do our daughters need to be raped before we put these monsters behind bars forever?" said Kelly King, mother of 17-year-old Chelsea King, in an interview Thursday with CNN's "Larry King Live."

"I just don't -- I don't get it. Change has to be made," she continued, "and I know that there are people out there that are trying to, you know, get this change in place."

She said she and her husband, Brent King, "are committed for the rest of our lives to be a part of that."

On Wednesday, John Albert Gardner III, 30, a registered sex offender, was charged in the rape and murder of Chelsea, who lived in the San Diego area. Gardner, who is being represented by a public defender, was also charged Wednesday with assault with intent to commit rape in an attack on a jogger in December 2009.

He pleaded not guilty to all charges. Gardner, of Lake Elsinore, California, will not be allowed to post bail.

If convicted, the charges against Gardner make him eligible for the death penalty, the San Diego County district attorney's office said Wednesday. The prosecutor's office said it has not determined whether it will seek capital punishment.

For the Kings, there's no question.

"I think the death penalty is a very appropriate punishment for this case," Kelly King.

Brent King said he had "100 percent agreement" with his wife.

Searchers found a body on Tuesday they believe to be that of Chelsea King. Police arrested Gardner on Sunday.

King had been missing since February 25. Investigators said she was last seen at her school in Poway, about 15 miles north of San Diego. Her car, with her cell phone inside, was found at Rancho Bernardo Community Park.

Searchers found remains in a shallow grave at that park; they were found along the shoreline of a tributary south of a lake, authorities said. The body was found in a heavily wooded area not visible from nearby homes. A shoe had been found earlier in the same area, the sheriff said.

King's parents, noting she was a great student and avid runner, said she had gone for a run at the park before she disappeared.

"It's a lovely area, very peaceful, very picturesque -- exactly what Chelsea ... loved to be in," Kelly King said.

She said the couple's son, 13-year-old Tyler, was extremely close to his sister. "He's struggling through it just like us," Brent King added.

Gardner's next court appearance, a status hearing, is scheduled for Tuesday. His preliminary hearing is scheduled for March 18.

*************

So this animal MOLESTED a CHILD. THEN he was released after showing no remorse and THEN he raped and murdered. Why the hell do we let these monsters back on the streets? You fuck with a kid that should be it. Your done. Behind bars forever. Screw electronic monitoring. Screw sex offender registration lists. Put them in prison and keep them there until they die. When weighing the rights of the guilty compared to an innocent child I would rather see any number of child molesters rot then one girl raped or murdered by a repeat offender.

What kind of idiotic politician doesn't support harsher penalties on child molesters and rapists? And before we go off on some retarded statutory rape argument - I'm talking about adults who have molested children or have sexually assaulted someone. I am not talking about a 22 year old having sex with a 17 year old. I am not talking about an 18 year old having sex with a 16 year old. This is a red herring and it muddies the issue.

Frankly why don't we require X number of sex offenders to live within a 2 mile radius of every politician who doesn't support putting their asses in prison for life? I would admire forever the politician who introduces a bill with language like that, even if it wouldn't pass.

[Dreadnaught]

Statistics. Damn lies and statistics. Release sex offenders don't have a significantly above-average re-commit rate.

Sure, if you want to lock them up for longer than other crimes, that's fair. Jail sentences are after all based on how society weighs a crime. But you can't deprive someone of a life until they've done the same to someone else.

[Nessus]

But you can't deprive someone of a life until they've done the same to someone else.

what

[Lewkowski]

Statistics. Damn lies and statistics. Release sex offenders don't have a significantly above-average re-commit rate.

Sure, if you want to lock them up for longer than other crimes, that's fair. Jail sentences are after all based on how society weighs a crime. But you can't deprive someone of a life until they've done the same to someone else.

Bull shit.

So tell me in a straight faced based on a 1000 known and convicted child molesters. How many children are you ok with being killed raped or molested in the future after releasing these 1000 known and convicted CHILD MOLESTERS?

[Dreadnaught]

what

"Deprive" can also equal a life sentence.

Bull shit.

So tell me in a straight faced based on a 1000 known and convicted child molesters. How many children are you ok with being killed raped or molested in the future after releasing these 1000 known and convicted CHILD MOLESTERS?

And how many people are you okay being robbed, murderer, carjacked or assaulted after releasing known criminals? Bottom line is that we as a society don't lock people away just for doing any crime. And we consider murder to be just about the one thing that you can possibly lock someone away for forever (or execute them).

[GGT]

There hasn't even been a trial yet, and everyone is assuming this guy is guilty? How's that happen?

[Lewkowski]

And how many people are you okay being robbed, murderer, carjacked or assaulted after releasing known criminals? Bottom line is that we as a society don't lock people away just for doing any crime. And we consider murder to be just about the one thing that you can possibly lock someone away for forever (or execute them).

You know you are talking to Lewkowski right? I really don't care if murders and thieves go to prison for life either. But lets not muddy the waters.

How many children are you OK with being condemned to rape and murder by repeat child molesters? Very few people I've talked with have issues with locking this kind of scum up for life. Society as a whole views certain crimes (like rape, child molestation and murder) as particular offensives.

Any politician not voting for a stricter sentencing laws should be asked the same question I'm asking... how many children are you OK with being molested and murdered by repeat offenders based on your decision? A child has INFINITE more value then a rapist. Those that don't see that I wonder about their humanity. Due to that infinite more value it doesn't matter if every single child molester NEVER sees the light of day if it prevents ONE child from abducted, murdered or raped.

There hasn't even been a trial yet, and everyone is assuming this guy is guilty? How's that happen?

For the sake of the discussion lets assume. I really don't find arguing the merits of the case (even though its near certain this animal did it) at all interesting.

[Dreadnaught]

You know you are talking to Lewkowski right? I really don't care if murders and thieves go to prison for life either. But lets not muddy the waters.

I am aware of that, which is why it's worth bringing up. You have a totally extreme and unreasonable sense of proportional punishment.

[GGT]

For the sake of the discussion lets assume. I really don't find arguing the merits of the case (even though its near certain this animal did it) at all interesting.

Are you just as concerned about how/why violent criminals or sex offenders even exist? Or are you just focused on their punishment?

[ar81]

Talking about "monsters"...

US pledges new jail abuse inquiry
The White House has said fresh allegations of abuse of prisoners in Iraq and Guantanamo Bay by US military personnel will be "fully investigated". (...) The rape of a juvenile male detainee at Abu Ghraib prison, currently under investigation

Report into Baghdad prison abuse
A report into allegations of abuse of prisoners by US forces in Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison has uncovered "numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses".

US ex-soldier guilty of Iraq rape

[Aimless]

oh give it a rest lewkowski, you're perfectly okay with rapes, murders and the harming of children when it's done in the name of war so you obviously don't care more about victims than do the rest of us.

can we please make guns illegal now??

[Khendraja'aro]

Guys, this is Lewk who is unable to comprehend his precious Bible. I mean, this is the guy who says that he wants to follow Christ and then goes against every single commandment his lord and saviour told him to uphold. The fun part: If there's indeed a hell, he'll pretty much wind up in one of the lower circles.

Hipocrisy, for instance, lands you in the 8th circle.

[Lewkowski]

Are you just as concerned about how/why violent criminals or sex offenders even exist? Or are you just focused on their punishment?

There will always be a portion of society - the animals - who can not control their baser instincts. These people who have decided to destroy other people's lives should be locked away in a cage - or like a rabid animal be put down.

can we please make guns illegal now??

Interestingly enough if the victim did have a gun and a man who outweighs her by a hundred pounds, she may have been able to kill him before he did what he did.

Gun's are the ultimate equalizer. Instead of relying on force, muscle and potential training you have suddenly equaled the playing field. Would you like me to cite half a dozen articles where little old ladies defended themselves with guns against males in their prime?

Guys, this is Lewk who is unable to comprehend his precious Bible. I mean, this is the guy who says that he wants to follow Christ and then goes against every single commandment his lord and saviour told him to uphold. The fun part: If there's indeed a hell, he'll pretty much wind up in one of the lower circles.

So many things wrong with this statement.

1. We do not live in a theocracy. Anyone who believes that a law should be X Y and Z because God said so must also believe we should put people who do not believe in the one true God in prison as well. What is the greater sin? Denying God or doing something bad to your fellow man. Think about it.

2. Dante's Inferno is not biblical.

3. We are not talking about justice, punishment or forgiveness. We are talking about keeping society safe. If you have someone who is mentally unstable, irrationally violent and homicidal do you truly believe that the bible tells Christians to let this guy go free and do whatever he wants?

[GGT]

There will always be a portion of society - the animals - who can not control their baser instincts. These people who have decided to destroy other people's lives should be locked away in a cage - or like a rabid animal be put down.

snip

3. We are not talking about justice, punishment or forgiveness. We are talking about keeping society safe. If you have someone who is mentally unstable, irrationally violent and homicidal do you truly believe that the bible tells Christians to let this guy go free and do whatever he wants?

Your first statement suggests that murder and pedophilia are "basic instincts". Or that people who act out in those ways are "animals" who can't control their instinctual drives, even when they're far from social norms.

If you really want to keep society safe, wouldn't that mean trying to understand why people go against social norms, and doing whatever we can to PREVENT those behaviors....instead of just locking them up after they've committed the crime?

[Aimless]

Interestingly enough if the victim did have a gun and a man who outweighs her by a hundred pounds, she may have been able to kill him before he did what he did.

Guns are also used by assholes to coerce, to wound or even to kill innocent people. So how many victims would you like to have on YOUR conscience?

Wow, that many?? I didn't expect that from someone so righteous.

[Loki]

Guns are also used by assholes to coerce, to wound or even to kill innocent people. So how many victims would you like to have on YOUR conscience?

Criminals manage to do that just fine in areas where guns are pretty much banned. How many victims would you like to have on your conscience, Minx? Why do you care more about someone getting killed by a legal gun than you do about people who get shot because they don't have a gun?

[Aimless]

Criminals manage to do that just fine in areas where guns are pretty much banned.

Are there many developed countries that have as high an incidence of violent crimes as you have in the US???

[Loki]

Are there many developed countries that have as high an incidence of violent crimes as you have in the US???

Have you ever heard of comparing similar entities? I'm referring to the gun crime rate in American cities and states that have harsh gun control laws.

Coincidentally, since you just said violent crimes, and not murders, then yes. Most Western European countries have significantly more violent crime than the US. I've posted the statistics before. The US onyl has a higher murder rate.

[Khendraja'aro]

So many things wrong with this statement.

1. We do not live in a theocracy. Anyone who believes that a law should be X Y and Z because God said so must also believe we should put people who do not believe in the one true God in prison as well. What is the greater sin? Denying God or doing something bad to your fellow man. Think about it.

2. Dante's Inferno is not biblical.

3. We are not talking about justice, punishment or forgiveness. We are talking about keeping society safe. If you have someone who is mentally unstable, irrationally violent and homicidal do you truly believe that the bible tells Christians to let this guy go free and do whatever he wants?

No, we're talking about the part where you proclaim to be a Christian and then don't follow any of Christ's rules. This has nothing to do with a Theocracy. You're only allowed to call yourself a Christian if you actually follow the guidelines laid down by Christ - which, by the way, are quite compatible with secular law. They don't demand anything unlawful. Thus it should be possible to follow Christ's rules within your governmental framework.
What you're doing here is a cheap cop-out. That's why I say you don't deserve to call yourself a Christian and that's why I said that, if Hell were real, you'd end up there. Yes, Dante's Inferno is not biblical. Neither is Hell. It was an example, you moron (you seem to have problems understanding an "if... then..." construct).

Safety does not exist without Justice. For if there was no justice, anyone could be the victim of an unjust proceeding. Justice is the backbone of safety. You can't have one without the other. And the Bible does not tell Christians to let dangerous people go free. It tells them to have compassion with those unlucky bastards and deal justly and kindly with them. Y'know, the whole "Love thy enemy"-shtick, another commandment by buddy Jesus.

Thus I say you're no Christian.

[GGT]

Not to mention that the OP victim was of higher-than-average IQ, straight A student, with smart parents. It's one thing to say joggers should have a partner, cell phone, or mace. It's another to say they should strap on a gun just to be safe.

What are infants, toddlers, or pre-pubescent kids supposed to do? What are their parents supposed to do? Even the caretakers are exposed---from priests to day care workers and baby sitters. Colleges and universities can't keep every student safe, even with rent-a-cop campus security and education about date-rape.

If even the smarter groups of minors and parents can't protect against this kind of victimhood, then we should focus on the perpetrators. How and why they do this, how to prevent this. Prisons don't seem to be the solution....we have more prisons now than ever. But to get there, first they have to commit a horrible crime.

[Aimless]

Before we get into a prolonged and futile discussion I think I should say that my chief issue here is that I think it's retarded to pin cases of rape and murder to any participant in this discussion. I think it's especially unacceptable coming from someone who pretends to believe in personal responsibility above all else.

Have you ever heard of comparing similar entities? I'm referring to the gun crime rate in American cities and states that have harsh gun control laws.

well duh they just get their guns from the next state. but what if they were banned in ALL states??

[Loki]

well duh they just get their guns from the next state. but what if they were banned in ALL states??

Yeah, what if. We can then have a war on guns and give 20-year minimum sentences to people for possession. Works well with drugs after all.

[Aimless]

Yeah, what if. We can then have a war on guns and give 20-year minimum sentences to people for possession.

See that's your problem Loki, you're weak, you simply don't have what it takes to make our society safe. You lock them up for LIFE.

[GGT]

Then they'd just use knives.

[Loki]

So care to address just how your ban would work? Especially seeing that you want the ban on drugs lifted...

[Lewkowski]

Your first statement suggests that murder and pedophilia are "basic instincts". Or that people who act out in those ways are "animals" who can't control their instinctual drives, even when they're far from social norms.

X percentage of the population have differing sexual urges. X percent of that population choose to enact their deviant desires. For some its play dress up, others its raping kids. The group that has that urge and has acted on that urge to harm another individual needs to be locked up. They have proven that they are not fit for society.

If you really want to keep society safe, wouldn't that mean trying to understand why people go against social norms, and doing whatever we can to PREVENT those behaviors....instead of just locking them up after they've committed the crime?

\

I have no problem is programs put in place or studies done on people or whatever else your suggesting in order to prevent crimes from occurring. However that has no bearing on weather or not we lock up people who have already committed those crimes forever.

Guns are also used by assholes to coerce, to wound or even to kill innocent people. So how many victims would you like to have on YOUR conscience?

None. Guns are a great equalizer. Some will use them irresponsibly. Some will use their cars irresponsibly. Some will use fire irresponsibly. Some will use knives, baseball bats and poison irresponsibly.

Making the comparison of gun control to letting child rapists out on the streets... a very strange and foolish argument.

[littlelolligagged]

X percentage of the population have differing sexual urges. X percent of that population choose to enact their deviant desires. For some its play dress up, others its raping kids. The group that has that urge and has acted on that urge to harm another individual needs to be locked up. They have proven that they are not fit for society.

You're seriously comparing "playing dress up" to pedophilia?

[GGT]

You're seriously comparing "playing dress up" to pedophilia?

He also seems to believe that rape is a crime of wanting forced sex.

[Lewkowski]

You're seriously comparing "playing dress up" to pedophilia?

Only by the contrast of harmless to horrible.

[littlelolligagged]

Only by the contrast of harmless to horrible.

By calling them both "deviant desires" in the process.