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Thread: Panic, Purge or Patience?

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  1. #1

    Default Panic, Purge or Patience?

    Thought I'd take the market movements out of the Greece thread.

    Something unprecedented happened today, with a huge plunge downward. I turned on the tv to see what was going on, and the "analysts" are discussing if it was a technical error driven by P & G, or some massive sell-offs triggered by a computer algorithm, related to downgrades and contagions in the bond and currency markets and those PIIGS.

    We've known the market was way high and wacky irrational, for a time of 10% unemployment and government stimulus. Some say the 70% gain in one year was just asking to be plunged and corrected. Some say there's no way now to trust "valuations" or even trends.

    And yeah, Cain---this shit matters.

  2. #2
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    It was a typo.

    Some trader hit 'b' (for "billions") instead of 'm' (for "millions").

    According to multiple sources, a trader entered a "b" for billion instead of an "m" for million in a trade possibly involving Procter & Gamble, a component in the Dow. (CNBC's Jim Cramer noted suspicious price movement in P&G stock on air during the height of the market selloff.)

    Not the first time this has happened (it's happened like a dozen times in Japan since the 90's), and it's not a big deal. Except for the dumbass who hit the wrong button, the company that employs him, and occasionally, the guys who wrote the trading software. As far as market moving typos go, this isn't even that big a deal. Try being the company that accidentally sells ~100,000,000 shares of whatever at ~10 yen each, instead of ~10 shares of whatever at ~100,000,000 yen each. That's how you go bankrupt. (Or lose $345 million dollars, as the case actually was).
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Supermarioman View Post
    I'm amazed that we trust people who can't even tell the difference between b and m with this much money.
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    It was a typo.

    Some trader hit 'b' (for "billions") instead of 'm' (for "millions").

    According to multiple sources, a trader entered a "b" for billion instead of an "m" for million in a trade possibly involving Procter & Gamble, a component in the Dow. (CNBC's Jim Cramer noted suspicious price movement in P&G stock on air during the height of the market selloff.)

    Not the first time this has happened (it's happened like a dozen times in Japan since the 90's), and it's not a big deal. Except for the dumbass who hit the wrong button, the company that employs him, and occasionally, the guys who wrote the trading software. As far as market moving typos go, this isn't even that big a deal. Try being the company that accidentally sells ~100,000,000 shares of whatever at ~10 yen each, instead of ~10 shares of whatever at ~100,000,000 yen each. That's how you go bankrupt. (Or lose $345 million dollars, as the case actually was).
    See, it's not the first time this has happened, and it's no big deal. It's occurred like a dozen times, in Japan, since the 90's.

    No big deal, kid. Except for the guys who wrote the software. Cain says so.

    The companies won't go bankrupt now though, they cancelled the trades. The programmers must have added something since the 90's to let the fat finger dude off the hook.

    Isn't that nice to know?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    The companies won't go bankrupt now though, they cancelled the trades.
    How can they legally cancel trades without the buy-in of the people who made the trades? I mean anybody who bought low is going to be screwed. Something very fishy seems to be taking place. It's like from here on out you won't know for sure your trade is valid. If I bought Accenture at $0.10, does that mean my purchase is invalidated?

    http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/07/mark...cnn=yes&hpt=T3
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    How can they legally cancel trades without the buy-in of the people who made the trades? I mean anybody who bought low is going to be screwed. Something very fishy seems to be taking place. It's like from here on out you won't know for sure your trade is valid. If I bought Accenture at $0.10, does that mean my purchase is invalidated?

    http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/07/mark...cnn=yes&hpt=T3
    Volatility You Shouldn't Believe In

    Posted 05/07/2010 07:06 PM ET
    Markets: We've often talked about the risks of extreme volatility inherent in our new fragmented electronic markets and possible dangers invited by not reinstating a potent uptick rule. Thursday was another case in point.

    The wild gyrations in both individual stocks and market indexes confirmed our worst expectations. After the close, we heard that some of the most damaging trades, perhaps due to an erroneous keystroke, would be canceled. This is not a solution and could even makes things worse.

    We've surrendered control of our markets to the premise that fast is always better. Thursday's action spoke otherwise. Our overbought market had been correcting for two weeks because of fears over the debt crisis in the euro zone, wild currency fluctuations and the unwinding of the carry trade. These kinds of factors have roiled markets forever. More important, investors large and small can understand them to a degree.

    On Thursday, however, something far more dangerous took place. Sometime after 2:40 p.m. New York time, the markets were slammed by a wave of electronic selling that sent the Dow Jones industrial average to a record 1,010-point intraday decline.

    Most of the damage was done in a 15-minute span during which the Dow plummeted 700 points only to bounce back 600 to close with a more modest 348-point loss. Big Board volume was the second-heaviest on record, and Nasdaq trade was the busiest ever.

    More inexplicable was the action of certain individual stocks. The sell-offs and run-ups in blue chips such as Procter & Gamble, Apple, Microsoft and 3M were so sharp and sudden, they took even seasoned traders' breath away.

    So what happened? Pick your favorite electronic buzzword: an erroneous (fat finger) order, a runaway program trade, a mutant algorithm, an errant high-frequency trading platform, a bungled black box, a loose quant program. But it doesn't really matter.

    What matters is what didn't happen. No one was there to say "Stop! Something looks wrong here" or "Let's slow things down and avert a potential catastrophe." It appears that a stronger uptick rule with some teeth is needed.

    Short-sell short orders had few controls to prevent them from worsening the declines. When NYSE circuit breakers slowed trading in selected stocks for 90 seconds (wow, such a long time!), giant sell orders simply migrated to ECNs or the Nasdaq, where no similar collars existed, seeking any bid.

    No one applied the emergency brake. That is what can happen in fragmented markets with no central system of price discovery. Volume is spread among so many trading platforms and exchanges with different rules and oversight (the NYSE transacts only 28% of total volume). It's like the Wild West with no sheriff.


    So now we hear that certain trades are being canceled. That might compound the problem because so many derivative products are interconnected like ETFs, options, futures, etc.

    As an example, 3M traded between a high of 90 and a low of 68. If you cancel the sell orders at 68, what happens to the brave buyers who may have taken profits at 75? Do you bust those trades also? And how about the related S&P index futures that gyrated because of components like 3M? Do you bust out some of those trades?

    You get the idea. These trade cancellations could further undermine confidence in our markets. Who's going to trade in the future if you go to bed with a big profit and wake up with a loss?

    We all understand that electronic markets are here to stay. What we need, however, is an electronic market, not markets — a market that features a system of price discovery that has one set of rules for all platforms and exchanges, is transparent rather than secretive, is consistent not fractured, and is fair not privileged.

    We also need a mechanism that will slow down all electronic trading equally, maybe even stop it, before the wheels come off. Accountability must be restored or else our public markets will lose the public.
    http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnal...aspx?id=532773

  6. #6


    And wasn't it you that gave me flak for saying rapid volume e-trades had inherent problems?

    *turns on cnbc*

  7. #7
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post


    And wasn't it you that gave me flak for saying rapid volume e-trades had inherent problems?

    *turns on cnbc*
    No, I corrected you when you tried to insanely claim that millisecond trading can be used to hide fraud.

    And, FWIW, millisecond trades are controlled by computer algorithms, and thus, do not suffer from typos. So, really, the problem here is that we let people do large trades, instead of relying on typo-proof machines.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    No, I corrected you when you tried to insanely claim that millisecond trading can be used to hide fraud.

    And, FWIW, millisecond trades are controlled by computer algorithms, and thus, do not suffer from typos. So, really, the problem here is that we let people do large trades, instead of relying on typo-proof machines.
    For a cynic, you sure are sounding naive. If nanosecond trading is also tied to human error, there's a good chance that some humanoid can figure out how to exploit that for their gain. They would hide in multiple trades, smaller trades, not the huge massive ones.

    In fact, I wonder if Goldman's geeks hadn't just figured how bad the ratings were, since AAA was given to CDOs that were hiding the lowest junky shitty crap in the tranches. They set up auto credit default swaps, the moment a rating for senior debt moved down, and voila. The CDS pays out to make them whole. Electronically.


  9. #9
    NASDAQ is now rescinding trades. Some of the names are also on NYSE.

    I'm thinking of the guy in his boxers in front of a computer screen, who decided to be his own financial manager, trading on his own (thinking he knew what he was doing because he had all the internet toolz), then panicked and sold on the way dooowwwwn.

    Milk-a-whu?

  10. #10
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Look, not to put too fine a point on it, but... stop talking out of your ass about things you have no idea about.

    These wild, insane scenarios you seem to be pulling out of your ass are based entirely on a complete ignorance of what these fractional-second trades are, as well as the fundamental concepts at play here. Your concerns have no foundation in reality, so please, just drop it... or go out and do some reading, and learn something about what you're trying discuss.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Look, not to put too fine a point on it, but... stop talking out of your ass about things you have no idea about.

    These wild, insane scenarios you seem to be pulling out of your ass are based completely on not understanding the fundamental concepts at play here and have no foundation in reality.
    Hey, I can be just as contentious as you---if that's what floats yer boat. Not to derail this thread any more than it already is, but do you really know how synthetic CDOs work? Surely you must, since you know everything. For the audience at home, take a shot and explain them, and how they're connected to their ratings, triggers, and profits.

    edit: while you work on that, I'll try my inferior computer skillz, with a crappy computer, to find some link or other. Ready set go

  12. #12
    http://vimeo.com/1876936

    There's another "skit" on credit default swaps. Gonna watch that one now. I picked this because I liked his accent.

    I found this by Binging. Much better than Googling. IMO.

  13. #13
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    OH NOES, THE HYPERVISORS ARE CONSPIRING WITH THE KERNEL TO CHEAT US ON OUR FEMTOSECOND SYNTHETIC CDO TRADES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

    WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE GIGOBYTES?!?!?!@?!?!



    Is your son a computer hacker?

    As an enlightened, modern parent, I try to be as involved as possible in the lives of my six children. I encourage them to join team sports. I attend their teen parties with them to ensure no drinking or alcohol is on the premises. I keep a fatherly eye on the CDs they listen to and the shows they watch, the company they keep and the books they read. You could say I'm a model parent. My children have never failed to make me proud, and I can say without the slightest embellishment that I have the finest family in the USA.

    Two years ago, my wife Carol and I decided that our children's education would not be complete without some grounding in modern computers. To this end, we bought our children a brand new Compaq to learn with. The kids had a lot of fun using the handful of application programs we'd bought, such as Adobe's Photoshop and Microsoft's Word, and my wife and I were pleased that our gift was received so well. Our son Peter was most entranced by the device, and became quite a pro at surfing the net. When Peter began to spend whole days on the machine, I became concerned, but Carol advised me to calm down, and that it was only a passing phase. I was content to bow to her experience as a mother, until our youngest daughter, Cindy, charged into the living room one night to blurt out: "Peter is a computer hacker!"

    As you can imagine, I was amazed. A computer hacker in my own house! I began to monitor my son's habits, to make certain that Cindy wasn't just telling stories, as she is prone to doing at times.

    After a few days of investigation, and some research into computer hacking, I confronted Peter with the evidence. I'm afraid to say, this was the only time I have ever been truly disappointed in one of my children. We raised them to be honest and to have integrity, and Peter betrayed the principles we tried to encourage in him, when he refused point blank to admit to his activities. His denials continued for hours, and in the end, I was left with no choice but to ban him from using the computer until he is old enough to be responsible for his actions.

    After going through this ordeal with my own family, I was left pondering how I could best help others in similar situations. I'd gained a lot of knowledge over those few days regarding hackers. It's only right that I provide that information to other parents, in the hope that they will be able to tell if their children are being drawn into the world of hacking. Perhaps other parents will be able to steer their sons back onto the straight and narrow before extreme measures need to be employed.

    To this end, I have decided to publish the top ten signs that your son is a hacker. I advise any parents to read this list carefully and if their son matches the profile, they should take action. A smart parent will first try to reason with their son, before resorting to groundings, or even spanking. I pride myself that I have never had to spank a child, and I hope this guide will help other parents to put a halt to their son's misbehaviour before a spanking becomes necessary.

    1. Has your son asked you to change ISPs?

    Most American families use trusted and responsible Internet Service Providers, such as AOL. These providers have a strict "No Hacking" policy, and take careful measures to ensure that your internet experience is enjoyable, educational and above all legal. If your child is becoming a hacker, one of his first steps will be to request a change to a more hacker friendly provider.

    I would advise all parents to refuse this request. One of the reasons your son is interested in switching providers is to get away from AOL's child safety filter. This filter is vital to any parent who wants his son to enjoy the internet without the endangering him through exposure to "adult" content. It is best to stick with the protection AOL provides, rather than using a home-based solution. If your son is becoming a hacker, he will be able to circumvent any home-based measures with surprising ease, using information gleaned from various hacker sites.

    2. Are you finding programs on your computer that you don't remember installing?

    Your son will probably try to install some hacker software. He may attempt to conceal the presence of the software in some way, but you can usually find any new programs by reading through the programs listed under "Install/Remove Programs" in your control panel. Popular hacker software includes "Comet Cursor", "Bonzi Buddy" and "Flash".

    The best option is to confront your son with the evidence, and force him to remove the offending programs. He will probably try to install the software again, but you will be able to tell that this is happening, if your machine offers to "download" one of the hacker applications. If this happens, it is time to give your son a stern talking to, and possibly consider punishing him with a grounding.

    3. Has your child asked for new hardware?

    Computer hackers are often limited by conventional computer hardware. They may request "faster" video cards, and larger hard drives, or even more memory. If your son starts requesting these devices, it is possible that he has a legitimate need. You can best ensure that you are buying legal, trustworthy hardware by only buying replacement parts from your computer's manufacturer.

    If your son has requested a new "processor" from a company called "AMD", this is genuine cause for alarm. AMD is a third-world based company who make inferior, "knock-off" copies of American processor chips. They use child labor extensively in their third world sweatshops, and they deliberately disable the security features that American processor makers, such as Intel, use to prevent hacking. AMD chips are never sold in stores, and you will most likely be told that you have to order them from internet sites. Do not buy this chip! This is one request that you must refuse your son, if you are to have any hope of raising him well.

    4. Does your child read hacking manuals?

    If you pay close attention to your son's reading habits, as I do, you will be able to determine a great deal about his opinions and hobbies. Children are at their most impressionable in the teenage years. Any father who has had a seventeen year old daughter attempt to sneak out on a date wearing make up and perfume is well aware of the effect that improper influences can have on inexperienced minds.

    There are, unfortunately, many hacking manuals available in bookshops today. A few titles to be on the lookout for are: "Snow Crash" and "Cryptonomicon" by Neal Stephenson; "Neuromancer" by William Gibson; "Programming with Perl" by Timothy O'Reilly; "Geeks" by Jon Katz; "The Hacker Crackdown" by Bruce Sterling; "Microserfs" by Douglas Coupland; "Hackers" by Steven Levy; and "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" by Eric S. Raymond.

    If you find any of these hacking manuals in your child's possession, confiscate them immediately. You should also petition local booksellers to remove these titles from their shelves. You may meet with some resistance at first, but even booksellers have to bow to community pressure.

    5. How much time does your child spend using the computer each day?

    If your son spends more than thirty minutes each day on the computer, he may be using it to DOS other peoples sites. DOSing involves gaining access to the "command prompt" on other people's machines, and using it to tie up vital internet services. This can take up to eight hours. If your son is doing this, he is breaking the law, and you should stop him immediately. The safest policy is to limit your children's access to the computer to a maximum of forty-five minutes each day.

    6. Does your son use Quake?

    Quake is an online virtual reality used by hackers. It is a popular meeting place and training ground, where they discuss hacking and train in the use of various firearms. Many hackers develop anti-social tendencies due to the use of this virtual world, and it may cause erratic behaviour at home and at school.

    If your son is using Quake, you should make hime understand that this is not acceptable to you. You should ensure all the firearms in your house are carefully locked away, and have trigger locks installed. You should also bring your concerns to the attention of his school.

    7. Is your son becoming argumentative and surly in his social behaviour?

    As a child enters the electronic world of hacking, he may become disaffected with the real world. He may lose the ability to control his actions, or judge the rightness or wrongness of a course of behaviour. This will manifest itself soonest in the way he treats others. Those whom he disagrees with will be met with scorn, bitterness, and even foul language. He may utter threats of violence of a real or electronic nature.

    Even when confronted, your son will probably find it difficult to talk about this problem to you. He will probably claim that there is no problem, and that you are imagining things. He may tell you that it is you who has the problem, and you should "back off" and "stop smothering him." Do not allow yourself to be deceived. You are the only chance your son has, even if he doesn't understand the situation he is in. Keep trying to get through to him, no matter how much he retreats into himself.

    8. Is your son obsessed with "Lunix"?

    BSD, Lunix, Debian and Mandrake are all versions of an illegal hacker operation system, invented by a Soviet computer hacker named Linyos Torovoltos, before the Russians lost the Cold War. It is based on a program called "xenix", which was written by Microsoft for the US government. These programs are used by hackers to break into other people's computer systems to steal credit card numbers. They may also be used to break into people's stereos to steal their music, using the "mp3" program. Torovoltos is a notorious hacker, responsible for writing many hacker programs, such as "telnet", which is used by hackers to connect to machines on the internet without using a telephone.

    Your son may try to install "lunix" on your hard drive. If he is careful, you may not notice its presence, however, lunix is a capricious beast, and if handled incorrectly, your son may damage your computer, and even break it completely by deleting Windows, at which point you will have to have your computer repaired by a professional.

    If you see the word "LILO" during your windows startup (just after you turn the machine on), your son has installed lunix. In order to get rid of it, you will have to send your computer back to the manufacturer, and have them fit a new hard drive. Lunix is extremely dangerous software, and cannot be removed without destroying part of your hard disk surface.

    9. Has your son radically changed his appearance?

    If your son has undergone a sudden change in his style of dress, you may have a hacker on your hands. Hackers tend to dress in bright, day-glo colors. They may wear baggy pants, bright colored shirts and spiky hair dyed in bright colors to match their clothes. They may take to carrying "glow-sticks" and some wear pacifiers around their necks. (I have no idea why they do this) There are many such hackers in schools today, and your son may have started to associate with them. If you notice that your son's group of friends includes people dressed like this, it is time to think about a severe curfew, to protect him from dangerous influences.

    10. Is your son struggling academically?

    If your son is failing courses in school, or performing poorly on sports teams, he may be involved in a hacking group, such as the infamous "Otaku" hacker association. Excessive time spent on the computer, communicating with his fellow hackers may cause temporary damage to the eyes and brain, from the electromagnetic radiation. This will cause his marks to slip dramatically, particularly in difficult subjects such as Math, and Chemistry. In extreme cases, over-exposure to computer radiation can cause schizophrenia, meningitis and other psychological diseases. Also, the reduction in exercise may cause him to lose muscle mass, and even to start gaining weight. For the sake of your child's mental and physical health, you must put a stop to his hacking, and limit his computer time drastically.

    I encourage all parents to read through this guide carefully. Your child's future may depend upon it. Hacking is an illegal and dangerous activity, that may land your child in prison, and tear your family apart. It cannot be taken too seriously.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  14. #14
    Hush, I'm listening to sexy Paddy talking about corks popping and pyramids of champagne glasses.

  15. #15
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    ? where did you find this gem?
    Congratulations America

  16. #16
    OMG I love this Paddy guy. Seriously. A man who wears pink shirts and green sweaters, has a lilting Scottish brogue, drawing financial metaphors on a white board?

    sorry, he's distracting me, I keep thinking of him whispering in my ear illustrative...securitized....

    Where were we?

    Bing, I found him on bing.com

  17. #17
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Bing, I found him on bing.com
    Yes, Bing is awesome, and not an obvious M$ shill.

    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  18. #18
    Well that was kind of a wild swing of a day. What was that bit about markets leading to more transparency?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Well that was kind of a wild swing of a day. What was that bit about markets leading to more transparency?
    Depends on the programmers, apparently. If this is going to be a digital global world, then where the hell are the programmers who can compete with the math quants? The pointy heads have value, it just seems the banks picked one over the other, based on promises of risk as profit, in fancy algorithms.

    Kind of like the off shore oil drilling fiasco, where the CEOs chose flawed mathematical odds ("that will never happen") and designed a whole profit business model around.....optimism.

    At some point, when it all comes down to it, the pessimists are the better planners. The eternal optimists end up looking like the joy-rider motorcyclists, speeding along the highway without helmets, drunk. Sounds great until they encounter traffic or pedestrians and can't stop.

    If they take themselves out it's not as bad as t-boning a mini van filled with kids.

  20. #20
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Depends on the programmers, apparently. If this is going to be a digital global world, then where the hell are the programmers who can compete with the math quants?
    Uh, who do you think it is that codes these algorithms you complain about so much?

    Clearly not the math geeks who get Ph.D.'s in computer-science related fields.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Uh, who do you think it is that codes these algorithms you complain about so much?

    Clearly not the math geeks who get Ph.D.'s in computer-science related fields.
    Uh, and who do you think gets paid eleventy gazillions a year? The math quants, with a PhD in engineering, hired by the hedge funds or banks like JP Morgan. Not the IT computer programmers who codes and implements their evil genius. mwaah ha ha

  22. #22
    Shut up Cain. You're such a whiny ass lately.

    Truth be told, I was hoping Paddy might take his pants down during the Getting Naked in Short Selling video.

    sigh

  23. #23
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    Missing the point again. The math geniuses *are* the guys who write the computer software (or, at least, the most important part of it - the algorithms).
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Missing the point again. The math geniuses *are* the guys who write the computer software (or, at least, the most important part of it - the algorithms).
    Not really. Stop your wanking and read the bios and CV of the people who are courted by financial firms. Hint: For their engineering talents more than their computer talents.

  25. #25
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    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    What's that got to do with what we were talking about? Financial firms hire people who know how to engineer ideas. Computer programming requires math skills, but math quants aren't relegated to computer programming.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    What's that got to do with what we were talking about? Financial firms hire people who know how to engineer ideas. Computer programming requires math skills, but math quants aren't relegated to computer programming.
    It has everything to do with what we're talking about, because, as usual, you don't seem to even know what the terms involved mean.

    "Software engineer" is HR/corporate-speak for "computer programmer." Is it really.... really so much to ask that you understand the terminology of the thing you're discussing?

    An "engineer," in this sense, is a fucking math quant. A math quant with the ability to type code into a computer. And they're not recruited for their "engineering" skills, but for their ability to use math to program computers to make these companies millions of dollars.

    Jesus fucking Christ.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    It has everything to do with what we're talking about, because, as usual, you don't seem to even know what the terms involved mean.

    "Software engineer" is HR/corporate-speak for "computer programmer." Is it really.... really so much to ask that you understand the terminology of the thing you're discussing?

    An "engineer," in this sense, is a fucking math quant. A math quant with the ability to type code into a computer. And they're not recruited for their "engineering" skills, but for their ability to use math to program computers to make these companies millions of dollars.

    Jesus fucking Christ.
    Sorry, I forgot my place here. And that you are the guru who's got it all. Let me read this all again.....

    Right, got it. Wait, not so fast. So who's to blame for today's NYSE and NASDAQ sudden and huge trajectory downward, causing a temporary panic and disruption in the global markets? A math quant who was hired to create computer programs, in order to make millions of dollars, but they didn't add a fat finger option, a time delay-check-first kind of spell check before hitting enter, or an oops, I meant to type m instead of b option?

    Those guys?


  29. #29
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Sorry, I forgot my place here.
    Well, don't let it happen again.

    Or, you know, stop being so opinionated and outspoken about things you lack even a basic understanding of.

    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Right, got it. Wait, not so fast. So who's to blame for today's NYSE and NASDAQ sudden and huge trajectory downward, causing a temporary panic and disruption in the global markets?
    Who cares, why does it matter, and what's the difference anyway? Though, it's probably none of the people you're crusading against, FWIW.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  30. #30
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    So... that's a "no" to the whole idea of knowing something about a topic before formulating an opinion on it which you'll defend to the death?

    OK.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

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