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Thread: Oh the Irony

  1. #721
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Well, as things stand, BP is going to bail out your government. Because legally your government is on the hook for whatever this spill costs more than 75m.
    Not when negligence is involved, as others have pointed out. We're all second guessing the "legalities" and how courts would rule. Sweet deal for lawyers the next 20 years, eh.

    Oh, and BP isn't just 'big business', it's also how millions of people have provided for their pensions.
    I mentioned pensioners and retirees being affected a while ago. Sucks to be Brits who have about 10% of their state pension in bp. Sucks for American pensions and 401-Ks, too. Hasn't everyone been saying caveat emptor, markets have risk, boo hoo? Suspending the dividend isn't as harmful as the company tanking, but what's your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    So let's impose a dictatorship just because it makes things easier.
    Dictatorship? You're being emotional and irrational. Maybe it's the heat.

    As I said, if the government wants to help these people, it should do so out of its own pocket, and then sue BP for the amount (plus interest).
    THESE PEOPLE means our fellow US citizens and their economies and commerce. Not to mention a large chunk of our land, ports, waters. Any other part of our country you're willing to just "let go" and fend for itself?

    Something tells me you'd also bitch about these people drawing on extended unemployment benefits, food stamps, housing assistance, mortgage mods, fishing vessels loans, Medicaid, jobs re-training....ya know, all those gummint programs and subsidies paid for by tax dollars.

    Are your objections to oil subsidies and tax breaks in there somewhere, too? Or are you just feeling sorry for poor old Bp.....because it gives you a chance to spew how much you hate Obama?

    I'm amazed at your about-turn from being a Paulite. First you want the military to take over. Now you want to suspend the constitution.
    Straw-cat. Ron Paul was my son's interest in Libertarianism a couple of years ago in HS, and my interest in populist and sociological trends. Same interest in the Tea Party, but you already know that, too.

    I still want to see this mess treated as a "mission" with military command and control.....over the OIL....that our shores are being "attacked by an enemy", and the enemy is THE OIL. Keep it out, keep it back, suck it up, be aggressive and on the offense. Not this defensive late-to-the-field crap with piddly floating booms and pathetic sham wows, or hanging over the edge of boats with modified shop-vacs. FFS

    Bp says our government is "in charge". Military is part of our government. Navy, Coast Guard, Army Corps of Engineers, National Guard, Army Reserves. Mobilize them all. Coordinate with state and local officials. Nothing anti-constitutional about protecting our land and water from a foreign invader called OIL.

  2. #722
    We should limit BP's drilling operations to Turkey and Denmark. Oh, and Ohio too. Maybe Central park also? Let's see how you all do with their crude operations in your own back yard.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  3. #723
    The numbers already astound. As much as 60,000 barrels of oil gush from the Gulf of Mexico’s floor each day. Some 1,300 miles of shoreline are threatened, more if currents carry runaway oil around Florida’s tip and up the Atlantic coast.

    The livelihoods of shrimpers, fishermen, restaurateurs, hoteliers and small businesses are on hold for who knows how long. And then there are the waterfront property owners who now expect the white beaches and blue-green waters at their doorsteps will turn toxic.

    So what’s to be thought of the $20 billion fund BP Plc was persuaded to set up?

    Call it a pretty good start. A shakedown? Oh, please.

    Texas Republican Joe Barton called it that at yesterday’s House Energy subcommittee hearing, one of the few moments that BP Chief Executive Officer Tony Hayward wasn’t the target of members’ wrath.

    But how can it be a shakedown, when BP had already pledged to pay all legitimate claims? If that was a sincere offer, then the fund is simply an apparatus to insure that it keeps its promise and does so fairly and more quickly.

    It gives BP’s word credibility, something sorely lacking as evidenced by the number of times the company has pledged to operate safely only to host a deadly refinery explosion, a major spill in Alaska and now this catastrophe in the Gulf.

    Gushing Crude

    The company still can’t say with certainty when the crude will stop gushing, where it will go or how much damage will have been done by then. But at least the folks suffering along the Gulf know now they will be compensated for what the company’s apparent recklessness took from them. That confidence won’t save an oil-drenched pelican, but it should at least ease some anxiety.

    We don’t know what President Barack Obama or any other administration official said during the four-hour come-to-Jesus meeting in the White House with BP this week. Nor can we say how accepting BP was of the escrow account and new claims process. No allegations of waterboarding have surfaced.

    There are reports that BP wanted to cap the escrow account and eventually caved. Well, good.

    It would have been impossible to set a ceiling now, anyway, given that oil is still pouring out at a rate no one even knows.

    Storm Surge

    Then there are the too-horrific-to-contemplate consequences if a hurricane should blow through. Even a minor storm surge would wash the crude miles deeper into low-lying wetlands.

    If the escrow fund had been capped, no one victimized by this disaster could have been certain they would be made whole.

    The $20 billion dollar figure looks big but shrinks when viewed against the harm already done and the potential for far more.

    Oil still lingers in Alaska from the 1989 Exxon Valdez spill, which now seems like a mere puddle compared to this.

    Besides, the escrow account will pay for all sorts of claims beyond the ones submitted in a process headed by Kenneth Feinberg, who oversaw payouts from the Sept. 11 victim compensation fund. It will also cover judgments and settlements from lawsuits, which victims are still free to pursue. There are more than 230 of those pending, many of them aiming for class- action status.

    Plus, the fund will pay for damages to natural resources as well as local and state response costs.

    Drilling Moratorium

    It doesn’t include the $100 million that BP is setting aside for oil workers laid off because of the administration’s moratorium on offshore drilling. Nor will it go toward the $500 million BP committed for a 10-year project to study the effects of oil and gas pollution.

    Eventual fines or penalties, which are bound to be substantial, will have to come out of some other pocket, too.

    For a shakedown, this one came with terms that aren’t especially difficult. It isn’t as if BP has to find $20 billion in cash by next Tuesday, or even within the next 12 months.

    A mere $5 billion is required each year for the next four. That is less than the canceled dividends, projected at $7.5 billion for the last three quarters of this year.

    In case the annual contributions run short, BP is setting aside $20 billion in U.S. assets initially.

    This will turn out to be the best thing to happen to BP since the Deepwater Horizon exploded on April 20. Investors showed they like it by pushing the share price up in the wake of the announcement.

    It is also the first credible piece of good news for the people and businesses of the Gulf of Mexico in two months. If BP had to be shaken down to produce it, then shame on BP.

    (Ann Woolner is a Bloomberg News columnist. The opinions expressed are her own.)
    Also, for anyone following "the facts", BP was quite worried about the cost of insuring their debts and liabilities, and the spread in CDSs. The escrow account announcement seemed to mollify investors and shareholders, and stabilize the plunge in value. Some (very optimistic) financial advisors are even calling Bp a (risky) buy.

    But by all means, let's call Obama a dictator. Let's demonize gummint for negotiating something from BP. Then apologize for the apologists. Everybody wants it both ways...even the oil dependent states that are being ruined by a spewing oil geyser.

    Meanwhile, the damn volcano of oil keeps gushing.

  4. #724
    If BP had followed all the safety rules, this shit wouldn't have happened! Of course they should pay ALL the damages. I don't feel one bit sorry for them! Their "money-saving" "cost cutting" actions have ruined the fishing in the gulf for many years to come, ruined miles of coastline, is threatening wet-lands, and, if there is a massive hurricane like Katrina, will possibly ruin a lot of inland area too!

    Frankly, I think Obama was too easy on BP!
    I don't have a problem with authority....I just don't like being told what to do!Remember, the toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!RIP Fluffy! 01-07-09 I'm so sorry Fluffster! People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life! My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!The nice part about living in a small town: When you don't know what you're doing, someone else always does!
    Atari bullshit refugee!!

  5. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldmunchkin View Post
    If BP had followed all the safety rules, this shit wouldn't have happened! Of course they should pay ALL the damages. I don't feel one bit sorry for them! Their "money-saving" "cost cutting" actions have ruined the fishing in the gulf for many years to come, ruined miles of coastline, is threatening wet-lands, and, if there is a massive hurricane like Katrina, will possibly ruin a lot of inland area too!

    Frankly, I think Obama was too easy on BP!
    The government could also have made BP follow the rules before this whole mess. Let's not forget that up till the moment that that well blew the Obama administration had little to no problems with offshore drilling under any circumstances.
    Congratulations America

  6. #726
    http://www.time.com/time/politics/ar...7963-1,00.html


    Eight More Deep Thoughts from Rep. Joe Barton

    By JAY NEWTON-SMALL AND KATY STEINMETZ Friday, Jun. 18, 2010


    In his 26 years in office, energy issues have defined Congressman Joe Barton's career. They've also defined his gaffes, as was evident Thursday when the Fort-Worth area Republican alienated even the members of his own caucus by apologizing to BP CEO Tony Hayward for what he initially called a White House $20 billion "shakedown," only to turn around later in the day and issue an apology for the impolitic apology. Here are eight of Barton's other not-so-finest moments in the limelight.

    1. Barton is a long-time denier of global warming. He's called it "a triumph over good sense and science" and in 2007 hearings he told Al Gore , "You're not just off a little. You're totally wrong." In railing against House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's passage of global warming legislation last year, Barton said: "You can't regulate God. Not even the Democratic majority in the U.S. Congress can regulate God."

    2. That said, Barton has used the threat of global warming to combat something he hates even more: wind energy. In a 2009 hearing, Barton implied that wind is a "finite resource" and that harnessing it would "slow the winds down" which would "cause the temperature to go up."

    3. Where does oil come from? Barton asks Nobel Prize-winning physicist Steven Chu that probing question during an April 2009 Energy Committee hearing in an exchange about the precious resource in Alaska. Chu's answer about plate tectonics, dumbed down so a five-year-old could understand it, is completely lost on a smirking Barton, who later gloats on Twitter, "I seemed to have baffled the Energy Sec with basic question — Where does oil come from." Actually, those watching were the most baffled.

    4. During the 2005 energy bill negotiations, Barton earned the nickname "Smokey Joe" from environmental groups for championing MtBE, a gas additive made in his district which turned out to be a highly dangerous water pollutant. Barton wanted a liability shield for all MtBE producers — a move that his own fellow Republicans in the Senate rejected two years in a row. Barton finally caved, allowing the energy bill to pass.

    5. Know your base: Barton challenged John Boehner for minority leader in 2006 after Republicans lost the House, but withdrew a humiliating six days later when it became apparent that not only did Boehner have the votes sewn up, but that few of Barton colleagues liked him enough to pledge their support.

    6. In discussing (what else?) energy legislation, Barton said in a press conference that Rep. Henry Waxman didn't "have the nuts" to pass his energy bill in May 2009. He then followed with the admission — to much guffawing — "nor do I." He explains, twice, how his metaphor is taken from Texas Hold 'Em, where having "the nuts" means having the best hand. But everyone in the room, laughing like sixth-graders, clearly only heard nuts, nuts, nuts. Barton, in summation, ends with: "We'll see which one of us has the other by the nuts next week." Ultimately, Waxman did have the nuts: the House passed his climate bill on June 28, 2009.

    7. When talking about climate change on C-Span in March 2007, Barton attempts to discount climate-change studies by explaining that temperature is determined by cloud shape. But his discussion of the various shapes — "tall clouds or skinny clouds, short clouds, fat clouds, high clouds, low clouds" — comes off as more Sesame Street than science.

    8. As a freshman representative in the mid-1980s, Barton took a hard Texan line against spies. In the wake of Navy officer John A. Walker, Jr. being accused of leading a spy network, he said all spies should be given the death penalty as "retribution" to fellow citizens. "Where I come from what we'd do about it would be take 'em out and string 'em up," he told reporters, to some laughter. "We wouldn't go through the legalities that we have to because of our due process." Oddly this seems to be the opposite tact he took with BP on Thursday where, in lamenting the Administration's "shakedown" of of BP, Barton said: "We have a due process system, where we go through hearings, in some cases court cases, litigation, and determine what those damages are and when those damages should be paid."
    Our high quality legislators and energy committee, hard at work. #8 sounds like Lewk.
    Way to go Texas GOP, go go USA #1!




  7. #727
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    The government could also have made BP follow the rules before this whole mess.
    You mean like fine them $87 million for 709 violations BP was cited for last year? 270 of which BP refused to fix from a 2005 inspection?
    Oh, and the government is still waiting for that fine to be paid.

    According to the rig workers, and links I've already posted, the decision that resulted in BP's most recent explosion was likely made the same day as the explosion.
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 06-21-2010 at 01:48 AM.

  8. #728
    Fucking wishy-washy politicians! What a fucking joke!
    I don't have a problem with authority....I just don't like being told what to do!Remember, the toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!RIP Fluffy! 01-07-09 I'm so sorry Fluffster! People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life! My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!The nice part about living in a small town: When you don't know what you're doing, someone else always does!
    Atari bullshit refugee!!

  9. #729
    Yeah, how dare they follow the law. They should do whatever the people want them to do.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  10. #730
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Yeah, how dare they follow the law. They should do whatever the people want them to do.
    Who are you talking to? And to which laws are you referring?

  11. #731
    People are angry. They should start confiscating property. Maybe have the military do it to show BP a lesson.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  12. #732
    Looks like Loki found the catnip


    In before his standard "LAWL, OG made a drug reference!"

  13. #733
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    People are angry. They should start confiscating property. Maybe have the military do it to show BP a lesson.


    Yes, lots of people are angry. For various reasons. You sound angry, too.

  14. #734
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    People are angry. They should start confiscating property. Maybe have the military do it to show BP a lesson.
    Fuckiing what???? Maybe BP deserves a spanking here, FFS! They have spilled millions of gallons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico, ruined countless beaches, ruined fishing/crabbing for years to come, and really fuckered up the unemployment rate in that area! Hmmm, yeah, maybe they need their ass kicked!

    NOTE: This comes from the resident pro-oil, gas, mining forum idiot!
    I don't have a problem with authority....I just don't like being told what to do!Remember, the toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!RIP Fluffy! 01-07-09 I'm so sorry Fluffster! People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life! My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!The nice part about living in a small town: When you don't know what you're doing, someone else always does!
    Atari bullshit refugee!!

  15. #735
    Loki's point is that popular anger is a poor metric for determining the extent of the ass-kicking. Suing BP for redress is one thing. Coercing them is entirely another. The United States is founded on a tradition of rule of law, and the moment you begin jeopardizing that tradition is the moment you begin eroding the legal foundations of our society. Will manhandling BP place us on a slippery slope of decline? No, but it certainly establishes a dangerous precedent. The underlying principle is that property rights are subject to the whims and caprices of the masses - or, in other words, of the typical human being. This is not a suitable basis for government, and the architects of ours had precisely this idea in mind when they built it (which is why I blanch whenever I hear populists on the right implying that their attempts to directly channel the will of the electorate is somehow a continuation of or otherwise in line with the founders' work).

    I'm probably as mad as you are, and I'd like to see BP pay through the nose. But I'd also like to see the process go through the proper channels. I'm aware of the anemic liability cap, but to me this suggests that the law should be amended, not ignored.

  16. #736
    But who gets to determine the value of the loss of those property rights? Or the loss of the fishing boat captain/owner? Or the crabber? Or the motel who had all the cancellations? Or the dude who couldn't go for a walk on HIS beach this morning...the piece of beach-front property HE owns outright?

    Do I have any actually stake in this...hell no! Am I still mad as hell, hell yes! FFS, Wyoming has it's own rig inspectors on top of the federal inspectors to make sure we don't have a huge disaster. Admittedly, we don't have a lot of "beach-front property" here, but an explosion/gusher could be a nasty environmental mess! Sitting here trying to think, but I think it has been 25+ years since we had a rig blow-out in Wyoming! Yeah, safety equipment can/is expensive, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper than this fucking mess, ain't it?

    Ok, just asked The Friend...he don't remember the last rig blow-out in Wyoming either...and he spent 20 years in the oil patch before going to trucking in the early 80's!
    I don't have a problem with authority....I just don't like being told what to do!Remember, the toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!RIP Fluffy! 01-07-09 I'm so sorry Fluffster! People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life! My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!The nice part about living in a small town: When you don't know what you're doing, someone else always does!
    Atari bullshit refugee!!

  17. #737
    Quote Originally Posted by Ship ship shippadoo
    But I'd also like to see the process go through the proper channels. I'm aware of the anemic liability cap, but to me this suggests that the law should be amended, not ignored.
    Retroactively changing legislation also sounds like a pretty bad idea

    Which just means that BP should get off no matter which way one looks at it, and Low-key seems to be upset that other people are allowed to be upset about that. Or something, he's been really irritable for the past couple weeks now.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  18. #738
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Retroactively changing legislation also sounds like a pretty bad idea
    Yup! But if this was a small, independent oil company that caused this shit, you can be sure they would be sued from here to next week!

    Which just means that BP should get off no matter which way one looks at it, and Low-key seems to be upset that other people are allowed to be upset about that. Or something, he's been really irritable for the past couple weeks now.
    Maybe Low-key is on the rag? Ok, that was possibly uncalled for and very sexist, sorry! BP fucked up, they should pay! They admitted they skimped on the cement or mud or whatever to keep the chances of a blow-out to a small risk. It was a "cost-cutting" "money saving" move on their part that, I hope. will prove damned costly for them! FFS, my friend and her husband who own a small water-drilling rig are inspected on a regular basis! Why the fuck wasn't/isn't BP? Big money? Bullshit! Make the cheap bastards pay out the nose for this mess!
    Last edited by oldmunchkin; 06-21-2010 at 10:15 AM. Reason: I know how to spell, sure I do! lol
    I don't have a problem with authority....I just don't like being told what to do!Remember, the toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!RIP Fluffy! 01-07-09 I'm so sorry Fluffster! People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life! My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!The nice part about living in a small town: When you don't know what you're doing, someone else always does!
    Atari bullshit refugee!!

  19. #739
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Our high quality legislators and energy committee, hard at work. #8 sounds like Lewk.
    Way to go Texas GOP, go go USA #1!
    #1 Sounds Like Lewk too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    People are angry. They should start confiscating property. Maybe have the military do it to show BP a lesson.
    No no no. When the people are really angry, they cut the nobility's heads off. Get with it.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  20. #740
    Quote Originally Posted by Shipper View Post
    Loki's point is that popular anger is a poor metric for determining the extent of the ass-kicking.
    Loki is using his own ass-kicking anger metric. He's mad at populist anger, he's mad at the gummint for 'interfering with business'. He just thinks his anger is more justified than anyone else's because he's a political scientist defending capitalism.

    Suing BP for redress is one thing. Coercing them is entirely another.
    We have a long tradition of carrots-and-sticks through negotiations, mediations, compromises, even bribes and threats. Happens every day in business board rooms, not to mention between lobbyists and legislators. Not every move made is done through a law suit (that's actually a horrible idea that only clogs courts and pays attorneys).

    The United States is founded on a tradition of rule of law, and the moment you begin jeopardizing that tradition is the moment you begin eroding the legal foundations of our society. Will manhandling BP place us on a slippery slope of decline? No, but it certainly establishes a dangerous precedent.
    Escrow accounts are perfectly legal. They're used every day in business transaction, real estate, and lending. Insurance premiums can be viewed as a type of escrow. Since bp is self-insured, and cash strong, there's nothing unseemly about a new escrow account, to be managed and implemented by a third party. That is not MANHANDLING BP, that's expecting them to create a pool of money reserved for the victims, since they didn't plan ahead for the worst case scenario.

    The underlying principle is that property rights are subject to the whims and caprices of the masses - or, in other words, of the typical human being. This is not a suitable basis for government, and the architects of ours had precisely this idea in mind when they built it (which is why I blanch whenever I hear populists on the right implying that their attempts to directly channel the will of the electorate is somehow a continuation of or otherwise in line with the founders' work).
    Our nation has property rights in the Gulf of Mexico. When private use conflicts with public health or safety, the national interest can override the individual (whether it's a multi-national corporation or a single person with beach-front property). The Gulf is one of our national treasures, and it's not just a right but a duty that our government protect that. That's not what I'd call a capricious whim of the masses....

  21. #741
    "The gulf is one of our national treasures."




    And that is coming from a beach bum who has spent a fairly decent chunk of her life in the gulf.
    We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.

  22. #742
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...spill-bp-lying

    The congressman, who has hounded BP on its handling of the crisis, said on Sunday's Meet the Press on NBC: "First they said it was 1,000 barrels, then they said it was 5,000 barrels, now we are up to 100,000 barrels."

  23. #743
    Quote Originally Posted by littlelolligagged View Post
    "The gulf is one of our national treasures."




    And that is coming from a beach bum who has spent a fairly decent chunk of her life in the gulf.
    Why is what I said haha funny?


  24. #744
    I have it!!

    Constant and thorough and really really annoying oversight, and the company gets to pay for it.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  25. #745
    Quote Originally Posted by littlelolligagged View Post
    "The gulf is one of our national treasures."




    And that is coming from a beach bum who has spent a fairly decent chunk of her life in the gulf.
    Its a commons. All the oceans are a commons. That's why they're so roundly abused.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  26. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by Shipper View Post
    The underlying principle is that property rights are subject to the whims and caprices of the masses - or, in other words, of the typical human being.
    Or perhaps on the scope of the damage they cause.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  27. #747
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Loki is using his own ass-kicking anger metric. He's mad at populist anger,
    And he values the rule of law, which you obviously don't care about.
    Congratulations America

  28. #748
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    And he values the rule of law, which you obviously don't care about.
    Bull. Or did you just conveniently ignore the rest of my post about escrow accounts?

    Some have even opined that it's within legal scope for the US to seize or freeze portions of bp's assets, and put them into conservatorship. IMO that would be going too far, even if it's "legal".

    Federal and state funds have been used to pay all sorts of operations related to the gusher. It's legal and reasonable that Bp set up the escrow account as collateral toward future pay-outs, to reimburse tax payers. As I said earlier, it's also a good PR move on their part. I'm not happy about suspending dividends because I have bp stock, but that was also a business decision they made to repair their image.


  29. #749
    Seems like the right time to quote the man overseeing the $20 billion claims fund.

    "We've got to get the claims out quicker, we've got to get them out with more transparency so claimants understand the status of their claim, and we've got to ease the burden on these folks in the Gulf," Kenneth Feinberg said.
    Loki's trolling last night was vague enough, as we continue waiting for him to explain what laws or actions he was referring to. I was looking forward to Hazir explaining what payouts he has issue with, or how the $87 million in fines wasn't a sign that the government was expressing that there were rules to follow; but now he has gone and hidden behind the same line we are assuming Loki is using.

    I do find it rather assuming that he celebrated the "do it or else" attitude of the EUC when it came to cellphone standards that were already going into place (that the EUC had no pull in), but is now attacking Obama for possibly using the same rhetoric againist BP.

  30. #750
    I wonder how the Dutch (or anyone else) would react to a huge US oil company drilling off their shores with the same type of gusher, and crude spewing into their water, killing fisheries and wildlife, contaminating beaches, spraying chemicals, wrecking their economies, etc.

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