Dental Health

[GGT]

yay, a late night GGT poll!

Was chatting with a friend (oldmunchkin to be precise) and we got to talking about TEETH. Since I made a comment about TEETH in the piccy thread, and asked about the TEETH of The Thing and The Friend, it became clear that she and I have very different ideas toward dental health.

Yes, corrective dentistry can be very expensive. Preventative dentistry not so much. We know bottle-propping and soda-drinking and candy-eating is bad. We now know the value of flossing, and all of our toothpastes have fluoride. (Some areas like mine don't have fluoridated water, but that's fairly easy to counter, without needing prescription drops---just let the kid swallow some toothpaste and/or use a fluoridated mouth wash).

We know prenatal nutrition makes a difference, we have vitamins and supplements. We know even infants need to have their gums cleaned, clear water given to drink, baby teeth need to be cared for, diets need to be optimal before adult teeth erupt.

We also know that dental health can be correlated to heart health. A person with chronic cavities and gum disease is more likely to have cardiac problems.

Brits carry around that comical "bad teeth" stereotype, but to me that means maybe yellowed or crooked.....not rotten! Black, pitted, decayed teeth, missing teeth, abscessed teeth, well that's just sad. Because it doesn't have to be that way.

ok so too long winded now, vote in the poll. Put some bite in your posts.

[oldmunchkin]

You want bite? Are you sure?

I would estimate 90% of the people in this county have horrible, rotten, teeth. Sure, some of it was caused by the drugs floating around here in the 60's, 70's and 80's, but not all of it! I think it has something to do with the old silver mine here and the uranium that is here now, and the radon that fills this county! Then too, when Dad had the water at the ranch tested, it was 98.9% PURE! No minerals, etc.

When there is a choice of...do I pay the rent and buy food? Or do I drive 60+ miles and pay $100 to be tortured? I personally, do not have to quibble long!

[GGT]

You want bite? Are you sure?

I would estimate 90% of the people in this county have horrible, rotten, teeth. Sure, some of it was caused by the drugs floating around here in the 60's, 70's and 80's, but not all of it! I think it has something to do with the old silver mine here and the uranium that is here now, and the radon that fills this county! Then too, when Dad had the water at the ranch tested, it was 98.9% PURE! No minerals, etc.

When there is a choice of...do I pay the rent and buy food? Or do I drive 60+ miles and pay $100 to be tortured? I personally, do not have to quibble long!

If that's true, I find that unacceptable for what's supposedly a wealthy nation with a decent public education system and plenty of dentists. Even charitable dentists.

[oldmunchkin]

If that's true, I find that unacceptable for what's supposedly a wealthy nation with a decent public education system and plenty of dentists. Even charitable dentists.

Yes, the US is a wealthy nation! So why are people starving and homeless here?

BFE has not had a dentist of any kind for over 20 years now! We have to travel no less than 50 miles to be legally tortured! Now, think like a poor (working for minimum wage and paying babysitters, school supplies, etc.) single mother for a minute! Even if you are lucky enough to qualify for medicaid, (yes it does pay children's dentistry...how to you think I could afford the $30,000 The Kid has in his mouth?) you still must find gas money, or pay someone to drive you, to the torturer of your kid(s). If you need to leave a sibling here with a babysitter, that costs too. Now, there goes the rent money (even section 8 housing costs, ya know?) or possibly the grocery money, (because if you make $1 income, your food stamps get cut $2) or maybe the necessary prescriptions for chronic health problems! Hmm...to me it's a "no-brainer"! You get the necessary things, and if there is anything left over, then you worry about vanity!

Where the fuck do you live? The closest clinic that does charitable dentistry is in Ft. Collins, Colorado! That is 225+ miles south of here! Can we say gas money everyone? Ooops, I lied, there is some dude who goes to the Rosebud Reservation every 4 months, but he is booked up 2 years in advance!

[GGT]

Wait, your son needs dental work costing $30,000? Is that a typo?

All of my dentists, in Michigan-Illinois-Indiana-Pennsylvania have done pro bono or charity work. (They hang the plaques on their office wall and put it in their CV.) Most were affiliated with Schools of Dentistry, or community outreach groups. Not just in urban hubs but also rural and suburban areas, and not just in clinics. We have roaming dental vans that travel to the patients, targeting lower income areas, children and seniors. Whatever gov't funding they might get is small, it's more of a mission for them.

Wyoming doesn't have these types of things, I gather.

[oldmunchkin]

Wait, your son needs dental work costing $30,000? Is that a typo?

Not now he doesn't! After his heart problem, he needed about $10,000 worth of orthodontia, then later, due to the water/air/whatthefuckever here, he needed about $20,000 worth of fillings and caps to make him have reasonably nice looking teeth!

All of my dentists, in Michigan-Illinois-Indiana-Pennsylvania have done pro bono or charity work. (They hang the plaques on their office wall and put it in their CV.) Most were affiliated with Schools of Dentistry, or community outreach groups. Not just in urban hubs but also rural and suburban areas, and not just in clinics. We have roaming dental vans that travel to the patients, targeting lower income areas, children and seniors. Whatever gov't funding they might get is small, it's more of a mission for them.

Wyoming doesn't have these types of things, I gather.

The only "roaming van" thingy we have in Wyoming goes to the Wind River Reservation and the prisons! The general population is fucked as far as that goes. And hell, even if the closest dentist did go to dentistry school, (that is in doubt at the moment) he is more worried about becoming a millionaire than giving out charity to anyone! I heard he charged his own Mother a large chunk of cash for doing a couple fillings!

[GGT]

Indian assistance is supposedly under the same umbrella as HUD and Public Health. Not sure why Reservations and prisons get priority, unless your state gummint is fucked up. Is this what the "less government" and "cut taxes and public assistance" advocates are promising us?

If so, it doesn't look very promising.

[oldmunchkin]

Indian (or Native American...if you wanna get technical) assistance is completely separate! After 100 years of being treated like fuck-all, they are finally getting some of what they need!

Jebus GGT...don't you KNOW we MUST make sure the prisoners are treated to better medical/dental care than the rest of the population? Hell, some bitch in the WWC might lose a tooth and sue the DOC!

WWC=Wyoming Women's Center=state prison for women!
DOC=Department of Corrections=state prison department!

[GGT]

So why are people starving and homeless here?

Well, they're not literally starving in the streets, emaciated and boney like what we're taught to think means starvation. The PC term is "food insecure". Not sure if they even use the term malnourished anymore. Mostly, media reports on obesity as the epidemic, but fails to connect the dots between cheap, starchy foods and poverty (or borderline poverty). Or, as you said, trying to decide between rent, food, or seeing the doctor.

Sure, I can see why dental health is put on the back burner. It's considered a "luxury" nowadays, by far too many people.

Which is totally pathetic and ironic, seeing as how many dentists we have, and how the US is a "leader" in professional dentistry. They even branch out into sub-specialties like periodontics, orthodontia, oral surgery, cosmetic dentistry....probably more money has been spent on learning whitening techniques and cosmetic veneers than providing basic dental health for poor people!

Go go USA #1! First rate cosmetics, last rate principles.

[oldmunchkin]

Well, they're not literally starving in the streets, emaciated and boney like what we're taught to think means starvation. The PC term is "food insecure". Not sure if they even use the term malnourished anymore. Mostly, media reports on obesity as the epidemic, but fails to connect the dots between cheap, starchy foods and poverty (or borderline poverty). Or, as you said, trying to decide between rent, food, or seeing the doctor.

Uhm, where do you live again? There are people staving to death in the streets in the wonderful East coast of the US! Mainly because there isn't the sense of community (help thy neighbor) that there is out here!

Yes, malnourished is still used, but mainly in connection with people like me. I now have food stamps, and a place to cook, but am NOT gaining weight at all due to meds.

Way to many people have to choose between the daily necessities of life and luxuries like medical/dental care and medications! We are one of the richest nations in the world, but our senior citizens can't afford rent and needed meds!

Sure, I can see why dental health is put on the back burner. It's considered a "luxury" nowadays, by far too many people.

Last time...dental care is a luxury! Your chewing mechanism can work just fine with NO teeth at all! (Ask me, I know!)

Which is totally pathetic and ironic, seeing as how many dentists we have, and how the US is a "leader" in professional dentistry. They even branch out into sub-specialties like periodontics, orthodontia, oral surgery, cosmetic dentistry....probably more money has been spent on learning whitening techniques and cosmetic veneers than providing basic dental health for poor people!

Go go USA #1! First rate cosmetics, last rate principles.

As in all health care, specialty care is gonna pay better, so the doctors are gonna do that instead of general practice. Doesn't matter if it's needed health care by a physician or optional care by a dentist.

[GGT]

Uhm, where do you live again? There are people staving to death in the streets in the wonderful East coast of the US! Mainly because there isn't the sense of community (help thy neighbor) that there is out here!

No, we don't look like a third world nation just yet. Our safety net hasn't completely fallen apart just yet. Sure we have beggars and panhandlers, and even homeless living over street vents or in subways, but they're not starving to death in public. In private, most likely, but still not like the emaciated bodies with bloated bellies, too tired to swat flies from their face.

And this isn't an East vs West coast thing.....but if you want to keep on that track, why are you still posting about missing basic necessities while surrounded by your community-friendly neighbors?

Yes, malnourished is still used, but mainly in connection with people like me. I now have food stamps, and a place to cook, but am NOT gaining weight at all due to meds.

Way to many people have to choose between the daily necessities of life and luxuries like medical/dental care and medications! We are one of the richest nations in the world, but our senior citizens can't afford rent and needed meds!

True, but don't get me started about priorities, munch. It's hard for me to lump you in with "everyone else" who's down on their luck, because you've posted about your choices and recurring bad decisions. I could, but you'd say I'm being snobby, even though your own hindsight is 20/20.

Last time...dental care is a luxury! Your chewing mechanism can work just fine with NO teeth at all! (Ask me, I know!)

As in all health care, specialty care is gonna pay better, so the doctors are gonna do that instead of general practice. Doesn't matter if it's needed health care by a physician or optional care by a dentist.

We've come a long way from "teeth are just meant to chew" to "teeth are part of general health". IMO it's sad when normal care is considered a luxury. I expect better from our dentists and hygienists, and our nation in general.

[oldmunchkin]

No, we don't look like a third world nation just yet. Our safety net hasn't completely fallen apart just yet. Sure we have beggars and panhandlers, and even homeless living over street vents or in subways, but they're not starving to death in public. In private, most likely, but still not like the emaciated bodies with bloated bellies, too tired to swat flies from their face.

Are you sure? Would you check again please?

All sarcasm aside, yes, there are people...(the unseen) who do have the emaciated bodies, bloated bellies, who are too lifeless to swat at the flies carrying the disease that will probably get them in the end!

And this isn't an East vs West coast thing.....but if you want to keep on that track, why are you still posting about missing basic necessities while surrounded by your community-friendly neighbors?

You are right, it's not an East vs West Coast thing...it's an urban vs rural area thing! I whined a lot this last winter, but I NEVER went without some sort of food, NEVER slept outside, in the cold and snow, in a cardboard box, and I NEVER actually lacked for some luxuries too! What it all comes right down to is...when food and shelter are lacking...would YOU be willing to let a homeless person live in YOUR house, feed them, and make sure they were ok? If the answer is NO, then my little hole in the world is a much better place than your city!

True, but don't get me started about priorities, munch. It's hard for me to lump you in with "everyone else" who's down on their luck, because you've posted about your choices and recurring bad decisions. I could, but you'd say I'm being snobby, even though your own hindsight is 20/20.

Oh, are you joining The Kid's camp? I was wrong to leave The Thing...I was wrong to think that I should have a life at my age...and I was wrong to put myself first for ONCE (ONE MOTHERFUCKING TIME) in my life?

We've come a long way from "teeth are just meant to chew" to "teeth are part of general health". IMO it's sad when normal care is considered a luxury. I expect better from our dentists and hygienists, and our nation in general.

No...people with higher education, live in urban/suburban areas, and have money for shit like dentistry have "come a long way" from that! The majority of the population, those making UNDER $20,000 a year, believe the purpose of teeth is chewing up food!

Just a dumbass Munchkin question? Why is torture considered a GOOD thing? Dentists routinely torture people and legally get away with it!

[GGT]

No to all of that, munch. I was saying the US doesn't look like Bangladesh or Somalia, or even Haiti. Emaciated bones covered by flesh with bloated bellies is more like sub-sahara Africa.

I also disagree that it's about rural vs urban. You were taken in by people you KNOW, not total strangers. In fact, that's one reason why you refused to go to a shelter. News flash: urban people feel the same way. It's not going to work to suggest that rural poverty is somehow "better" than urban poverty. Poverty is poverty and it all sucks.

......

I was wrong to leave The Thing...I was wrong to think that I should have a life at my age...and I was wrong to put myself first for ONCE (ONE MOTHERFUCKING TIME) in my life?

Not at all, I was thinking much farther back, actually. To when you dropped out of high school to chase some big money, bought a car with cash, bought a house with cash, before thinking of your long term employment. Let alone paying for a dentist before you lost bucks at the gambling tables. Those kinds of choices. You know damn well I tried to encourage you to get out of toxic relationships and focus on your education and become independent of men, long before you fucked up your back.

[oldmunchkin]

No to all of that, munch. I was saying the US doesn't look like Bangladesh or Somalia, or even Haiti. Emaciated bones covered by flesh with bloated bellies is more like sub-sahara Africa.

Bullshit!! Look around you, woman! Hell no, we don't have rows of people laying on the ground, but we definitely have starving people!

I also disagree that it's about rural vs urban. You were taken in by people you KNOW, not total strangers. In fact, that's one reason why you refused to go to a shelter. News flash: urban people feel the same way. It's not going to work to suggest that rural poverty is somehow "better" than urban poverty. Poverty is poverty and it all sucks.

Who thought I would get more/better services/help if I moved to the ""city"? I believe that would be............YOU! And I told you that I wasn't moving to the city to live in a fucking shelter, fighting for bed-space, to say nothing of my life, just to make you feel better about living in the city instead of the real world!

......

Not at all, I was thinking much farther back, actually. To when you dropped out of high school to chase some big money, bought a car with cash, bought a house with cash, before thinking of your long term employment. Let alone paying for a dentist before you lost bucks at the gambling tables. Those kinds of choices. You know damn well I tried to encourage you to get out of toxic relationships and focus on your education and become independent of men, long before you fucked up your back.

You are going to hold something against me that I did fucking 30 goddamned years ago? Yes, I made some rather poor choices, at 18 fucking years old, that have effected my entire life, but shit GGT, you didn't make ANY (in hindsight) poor choices in your life?

[GGT]

Bullshit!! Look around you, woman! Hell no, we don't have rows of people laying on the ground, but we definitely have starving people!

I suggested that we have people dying quietly, hidden in their rooms (or institutions). Not lying in the streets. Because for the most part, our safety net works to keep the suffering out of the public eye.

Who thought I would get more/better services/help if I moved to the ""city"? I believe that would be............YOU! And I told you that I wasn't moving to the city to live in a fucking shelter, fighting for bed-space, to say nothing of my life, just to make you feel better about living in the city instead of the real world!

It wasn't to make me feel better, but to get you the assistance you needed. Since your small town or state of Wyoming didn't seem to be providing that opportunity. Mostly, you said you couldn't leave your elderly parents because they needed you, but not sure that remains true.

You are going to hold something against me that I did fucking 30 goddamned years ago? Yes, I made some rather poor choices, at 18 fucking years old, that have effected my entire life, but shit GGT, you didn't make ANY (in hindsight) poor choices in your life?

Not holding anything against you, or having a standard that I don't also hold myself to. Hindsight wisdom, learning from mistakes and trying not to repeat them, breaking old ineffective cycles that don't work. Sure, I've made poor choices too! More than I can count. But feigning to victimhood only works for so long, before it doesn't work.

[oldmunchkin]

I suggested that we have people dying quietly, hidden in their rooms (or institutions). Not lying in the streets. Because for the most part, our safety net works to keep the suffering out of the public eye.

But you forget about the ones who can't afford a room, or institution!

Yes, here we tend to HIDE the important issues and focus on bullshit like bailing out banks that were stupid in the first place!

It wasn't to make me feel better, but to get you the assistance you needed. Since your small town or state of Wyoming didn't seem to be providing that opportunity. Mostly, you said you couldn't leave your elderly parents because they needed you, but not sure that remains true.

No, GGT, it was to ease your mind that I wasn't going to freeze to death. But, the chances of that happening to me here were a lot slimmer than, for instance, moving to Denver! Plus, I don't know if you check Denver news, but there were 3 or 4 people killed last winter, for their bed in a shelter! And no, after The Friend's Mom broke her arm today, there is no fucking way in hell I am leaving Mommymunchkin! (If that sounds spoiled, tough oogie cookies!) Mom is 5 years older than The Friend's Mom, and now I am really fucking worried about what can happen to her!

Not holding anything against you, or having a standard that I don't also hold myself to. Hindsight wisdom, learning from mistakes and trying not to repeat them, breaking old ineffective cycles that don't work. Sure, I've made poor choices too! More than I can count. But feigning to victimhood only works for so long, before it doesn't work.

Bullshit! You rub in my idiotic teenage mistakes but at least I survived, unlike some of my friends!

Hell NO...do you think I want to be where I am at 46 years old? Do I wish I had gone to college when I could afford it or still had the brain cells to learn something? Hell yes! Do I regret anything I did in my lifetime? FUCK NO! It's all combined to make me the person you actually do like now!

[GGT]

To be fair, at one point you said you had pancreatic cancer. We both knew you couldn't get the care you needed in that small town of yours......

do you think I want to be where I am at 46 years old? Do I wish I had gone to college when I could afford it or still had the brain cells to learn something? Hell yes! Do I regret anything I did in my lifetime? FUCK NO!

Non sequitor. Does not compute.

[oldmunchkin]

To be fair, at one point you said you had pancreatic cancer. We both knew you couldn't get the care you needed in that small town of yours......

Uhm, no...most of the time oncologists do NOT set up a practice in a town of 1250 people. BUT, we do have, in the state, one of the top 100 oncologists in the NATION in Gillette!

Non sequitor. Does not compute.

HUH? Does compute if you leave Jack alone and re-read it! Yes, there are things I would change, if I could go back and know what I know now, but I do NOT regret anything I did while getting to be my age!

[GGT]

This one is for munchkin:

[oldmunchkin]

See, even Bill agrees that dentists practice legalized torture!

[GGT]

But he still went to the dentist! This was the 70s munchie, by then it was considered a normal thing to do!

[oldmunchkin]

I have a huge phobia of dentists! They practice legalized torture, IMO!

You never did explain why you think that dental work is a necessity more important than housing and food!

[GGT]

I said it's right up there with other physical health needs. Did you miss that I think prevention is better than correction? I realize many people don't share that belief, including you. Maybe your culture didn't value teeth, or it was considered a luxury, and you grew up thinking dentistry was just for rich folks or something. That's not how everyone was raised. As much as you like to idealize your small town country childhood, from my perspective it lacked some basic logic that wasn't taught. ie, you don't buy a car or go to the casino when you have dental needs.

[oldmunchkin]

I said it's right up there with other physical health needs. Did you miss that I think prevention is better than correction? I realize many people don't share that belief, including you. Maybe your culture didn't value teeth, or it was considered a luxury, and you grew up thinking dentistry was just for rich folks or something. That's not how everyone was raised. As much as you like to idealize your small town country childhood, from my perspective it lacked some basic logic that wasn't taught. ie, you don't buy a car or go to the casino when you have dental needs.

I get this! What I don't get is why you think dentistry is MORE important than a place to live and food for your children?

Plus, my last 7 or 8 trips to the casino were funded by The Friend! I didn't pay out anything! And ya know what? Having a bit of fun once in a while is just as important as going to be hurt/tortured/given pain/etc!

[Rtoups]

I consider my dental health a pretty big priority. Of course, I am fortunate enough that I don't have to worry about food or shelter, so I suppose I do take dental health for granted. I like to keep my teeth in tip-top shape because a good smile can make all the difference when meeting someone. I know it sounds superficial and a bit like a Crest commercial, but I guess that stuff is important to me.

[Ominous Gamer]

damnit rtoups, I wanted see how long these two could carry a conversation by themselves

[GGT]

damnit rtoups, I wanted see how long these two could carry a conversation by themselves

munch: Turned out to be too difficult to understand how you went from "dentistry is too expensive or inconvenient for most people so we go without" to "dentistry doesn't really matter anyway because dentists just get rich by torturing people". I found it odd that's how you explained why dental health isn't "a necessity" but a "luxury". Or why you told me pretty much everyone in Wyoming has fucked up teeth and it's normal here.

[Knux897]

I don't really care about my teeth... I brush them once every morning and I use Cinnamon Gum to clear up my breath and I haven't had cavaties in a long time. They don't seem to be yellow so maybe it's my diet keeping them white or something.

[DecoyMilk]

I haven't been to the dentist since before uni, so.. 7-8 years?

Which is quite silly really, considering checkups are free here. I think.

I do think the quality of dentistry in England is fairly poor though. The service at least. Sharon needed a filling, and they only have Silver or gold fillings, not white ones. She visited a dentist in Spain, who laughed about that. It doesn't make sense to me either. Why wouldn't you be able to get a filling that is the same colour as your teeth?

But I think Munchkin is right, Dental Health is a luxury. As long as you brush, floss and use mouthwash, you'll be alright. I wore braces/retainers for 7 years when I was a kid, and I had lovely straight teeth for about 6 months, then they went all wonky again on their own, just like my brothers, and my dad's, and my grandad's. You can't fight genetics!

[Flixy]

I had my last checkups just before I turned 21, because that's when it wasn't covered for free anymore in my insurance. Before that it had been 5 years. My dentist (rightly) figured I was okay, or I would have dropped by earlier for a checkup