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Thread: Pedagogically justified or patently pornographic?

  1. #1

    Default Pedagogically justified or patently pornographic?

    My alma mater has an interesting controversy brewing for the last week. There's a very popular Human Sexuality course taught by the Psychology department there (about 30% of the student body takes it). As part of an optional after-class session, a visiting presenter demonstrated the use of a sex toy called a 'fucksaw' (I kid you not) on a non-student woman and brought her to orgasm in front of 100+ students.

    Obviously a very controversial act (and probably the first time anyone has orgasmed in Ryan Auditorium; the ambiance isn't exactly romantic), but I'm not sure what to think about it. Was it educationally relevant, or was it just an excuse to get some shock value? Did it add anything that a verbal description (possibly coupled with pictures) would not have captured?

    On the one hand, I think it probably brought about precisely the kind of discussion that the course covers. On the other hand, I'm not sure it couldn't have been achieved in a less, ahem, exhibitionist manner.

    This is hardly confined to NU; I have friends at the Maryland SOM who until recently attended what is fondly called 'porn week' in their first year of medical school showing some rather fringe pornography. (AIUI the idea was to make the students aware of and comfortable with various non-traditional sex acts that their patients might come in claiming to have done, and understand the medical ramifications thereof.) I'm sure there's plenty of racy imagery in university classes around the country - hell, the number of vaginas, penises, and breasts I've seen blown up in a Powerpoint presentation at 8 am is pretty remarkable (and resulted in an awkward conversation with my girlfriend). But I feel like there's a line between watching pornographic (or otherwise) imagery as part of a course and actually being present for a public sex act. There, the audience is not merely a spectator but to some extent a participant. Does this go too far?

    *shrugs* Thought it was grounds for a fertile discussion on the limits of academic freedom. Personally I think the professor is guilty of poor judgment, perhaps, but nothing else given that the students were repeatedly warned about the graphic nature of the presentation and that it was completely optional.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daily Northwestern
    Class sex toy demonstration causes controversy
    Prof. John Michael Bailey defends demonstration as educational

    By Patrick Svitek

    Northwestern students and administrators are defending an explicit after-class demonstration involving a woman being publicly penetrated by a sex toy on stage in the popular Human Sexuality course last week.

    The optional presentation last Monday, attended by about 120 students, featured a naked non-student woman being repeatedly sexually stimulated to the point of orgasm by the sex toy, referred to as a "fucksaw." The device is essentially a motorized phallus.

    The 600-person course, taught by psychology Prof. John Michael Bailey, is one of the largest at NU. The after-class events, which range from a question-and-answer session with swingers to a panel of convicted sex offenders, are a popular feature of the class. But they're optional and none of the material is included on exams.

    Last Wednesday, Bailey devoted six minutes of his lecture to addressing mounting controversy regarding the incident and articulating his educational intent. He told the class he feared the demonstration would impact the after-class events, which are sponsored by the Weinberg College of Arts and Sciences, and he explained the educational purpose of the events.

    "I think that these after-class events are quite valuable. Why? One reason is that I think it helps us understand sexual diversity," he said, according to an audio file obtained by The Daily.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones, but watching naked people on stage doing pleasurable things will never hurt you," he said to loud applause at the end of his speech.

    Bailey declined to comment for this article due to class preparations that he said last until Friday.

    Chicago sex tour guide Ken Melvoin-Berg, who operated the device, emphasized the instructional value of the hour-long session, which also included a question-and-answer period.

    "Talking about it doesn't always lend itself to this sort of thing," Melvoin-Berg said. "We're not just talking about it. We're actually doing it."

    The shock value could be attributed to offended parties "not really knowing why they're upset, but knowing they're upset," he added.

    NU administrators on Tuesday afternoon offered approving but cautious responses to the demonstration, with Dean of Students Burgwell Howard admitting he was "somewhat surprised" upon first hearing of the after-class presentation. The event, however, most likely "falls within the broad range of academic freedoms — whether one approves or disapproves," he wrote in an e-mail.

    Laura Anne Stuart, the sexual health education and violence prevention coordinator at University Health Services, said after hearing of the event she consulted with a few members of SHAPE, the on-campus sexual health group she advises.

    "As a sexuality educator, I do think that demonstrations of specific arousal techniques — those definitely have educational value," she said.

    Stuart added that the sexual display's appropriateness depends on the class context, audience makeup and the professor's ultimate goals.

    Bailey is no stranger to controversy. The 21-year professor, who repeatedly has been named to the Associated Student Government Faculty Honor Roll, including in 2010 and 2009, has drawn criticism for the research and conclusions of his book "The Man Who Would Be Queen," which explores male femininity and autogynephilia, a sexual fixation in which a man is sexually excited by the thought or image of himself as a female.

    Interested attendees were warned five to 10 times about the intense nature of the demonstration, said McCormick senior Nick Wilson, who was present for the after-class event. He estimated at least 20 students began "trickling out" due to the warning.

    McCormick junior Ellen Kourakos described the sex-toy implementation as "a little more explicit than expected."

    Administrators and students interviewed said because the event was optional, it is a permissable addition to the class.

    "Personally, I probably wouldn't want to witness that, but a student can take or not take the course," said Christine Woo, a member of NU's Christians on Campus chapter. "It's their choice."

    Howard wrote in an e-mail Tuesday evening that hopefully students aimed to "plan their attendance accordingly," especially given the popular but provocative nature of Bailey's course.

    Wilson downplayed the controversy, adding students were present because they chose to be and some were actually trying to move closer to the front of the room during the demonstration.

    "Everybody's blowing it out of proportion," Wilson said. "It's one small thing. It's an intense thing, but it's a small thing."
    http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/cam...ersy-1.2501746

  2. #2
    Yeah, I read about this. The Dean has done an about-face, after so many complaints, and launched an "investigation". Whatever that means.

    I looked up this fucksaw sex toy.....it's literally a dildo attached to a reciprocating saw, and can be ratcheted up to hundreds of 'strokes' per minute. Besides wondering what kind of warnings must be on its label, I have no idea why it would need to be demonstrated Live. Shock value, I suppose. The woman was quoted in another article, saying she has a fetish for having sex in front of large numbers of people. There was also mention of female ejaculation.

    I don't think I'm a prude, but demonstrating that in a university auditorium sounds....sleazy. He could have achieved the same results by showing it pre-recorded. Hell, Bravo used to have a racy show on sexual fetishes, with a sex therapist using real couples to demonstrate How To perform anal sex. The prof could have just shown their whole series on a screen. What's he gonna do when talking about S & M, or bestiality?

  3. #3
    To be fair, the prof didn't plan this - the after class presenter was disputing the professor's characterization of female ejaculation and the G-spot as scientifically disputed, and offered to prove him wrong right there. The prof just neglected to say 'no', he didn't plan a live sex demonstration.

    Also, Shapiro is the president and not the dean.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    the after class presenter was disputing the professor's characterization of female ejaculation and the G-spot as scientifically disputed, and offered to prove him wrong right there.
    But the demonstration didn't prove that the fact that these are scientifically disputed. Just proved the point that the dispute is ill conceived, and just plain redonkulous. But don't blame the scientists for not finding a woman's g-spot, some apparently don't believe it exists so don't try to find it. No wonder their wives are so frigid.
    The worst job in the world is better than being broke and homeless

  5. #5
    While trying not to fall down a "what if" slippery slope, why exactly is the below quote a bad thing in a college class? Sounds like the presentation was a success in about every manner I can think of.

    On the other hand, I'm not sure it couldn't have been achieved in a less, ahem, exhibitionist manner.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by rumrunner View Post
    But the demonstration didn't prove that the fact that these are scientifically disputed. Just proved the point that the dispute is ill conceived, and just plain redonkulous. But don't blame the scientists for not finding a woman's g-spot, some apparently don't believe it exists so don't try to find it. No wonder their wives are so frigid.
    My wife is not frigid.

    In other news, http://xkcd.com/685/ .

    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    While trying not to fall down a "what if" slippery slope, why exactly is the below quote a bad thing in a college class? Sounds like the presentation was a success in about every manner I can think of.
    I don't think it was a problem, just not necessary and perhaps in poor taste. I honestly don't think the professor should be censured, but it's perfectly reasonable that it raises some eyebrows. I can't come up with a real reason why the live demonstration added anything to the discussion.

  7. #7
    I'm sorry if this is rambling, I don't really have a coherent opinion on the subject.

    But I kept thinking about the usual US cultural chasm between violence and sex. What's the difference, or the similarity, between a college classroom witnessing stimulation reaching orgasm and a classroom witnessing a beating?

    As Ender put it, when the actors are present in the room the students become a part of the event. They were witness to a sex act and might've helped or hindered the test subject in her climax, depending on her kink. And by this participation, a women's studies major would say they were raped by their learning institution.

    But I don't think that is the case. I think to really learn some things (grok, if you will), you have to have some experience with it. We have job learning as part of most our higher education because nurses and teachers have to know what the Fuck they are doing before we loose them on the public.

    So I think there is some educational value in seeing a live fucking, or a live beating. You learn more about fucking, or beating (and being beaten) by seeing it done by real live people in front of you, rather than playing pretend for the camera.

    Whether or not your standard humanities degree warrants that kind of learning is another matter.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  8. #8
    Trust me, I'd wager the vast majority of students in that class have been active participants in a great number of 'live fuckings'.

    I do think the beating point is somewhat cogent, but in that case presumably laws would be violated (can't just go around beating people) and there would be potential harm to the recipient of said beating. Here, I don't think there was any legal problem given consent of everyone involved (and given they were all adults), and I believe the woman in question felt quite the opposite of harm.

  9. #9
    Oh, certainly. I was referring to the visceral things associated with some aspects of learning that can only be, well, learned by being subjected to some of it. Reading Levi gives a different learning experience than reading Friedlander. Being present in live fuckings of your own can't give you an objective idea at all because you're performing some of it yourself (your partner hopes), in this case all you are doing is possibly adding to the climax with your observation. What I'm going for here is that there are things to be learnt by the experience, but it's a pretty open question who has the need to learn those things.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  10. #10
    Fair enough, there may be some 'value added' here, albeit fairly small for most of the students. The very fact that the learning is experiential, though, might be its own reason why it's more a problem than watching a tape of the same act.

  11. #11
    I don't think it's entirely unfair to ask people ostensibly wanting to learn something to experience some of it. A humanist friend of mine had a course in "gender studies" (women's studies rebranded) where the final exam was spending the night in a gay bar with the lecturer, taking notes and then turning in a paper about it. If Lewkowski wanted to learn about gender studies, I think that might be a more worth-while learning exercise than forcing him to read Y and turning in a paper on that instead. *shrug*

    Kind of hard to say with my background, I don't have to deal with any icky human stuff.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  12. #12
    Yeah, I dunno about that. It was a fucking SAW. I don't really need to witness intercourse with a modified power tool, any more than I need to hand a dominatrix her whip.....to learn that other people have kinks and fetishes. Experiential is different than vicarious.

  13. #13
    Large dildoes can be used to club people to death; I don't see what bearing auxiliary uses of sex toys have on their nature.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  14. #14
    It's more of the violent insinuation of a reciprocating SAW.....and those gender studies of women and violence combined for sexual pleasure.....

  15. #15
    You're not objecting to what happened, you're upset at the device used.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  16. #16
    Probably. When I saw the handle it reminded me of real power saws, chain saws, chain saw massacre, blood and gore, dismemberment..... I wouldn't want that thing near my vagina, just guessing some women there felt the same way. But then, I have a sort of fear of power tools.

  17. #17
    Nessus- I'm not sure anyone would be game for a live beating in a university classroom.

    This professor clearly took so many damn precautions to prevent this from becoming a controversy. I think ultimately having the sessions after-class and announced in class is sort of a grey area. Candidly, I find it hard to imagine there aren't people who may think it helps to go to these extra sessions. But I also doubt anyone really minds going to the extra sessions. They have to opt-in and attend after all.

    So basically, typical college controversy that's about everything and nothing at the same time.

  18. #18
    There's nothing ever wrong with free porn!
    Get off my lawn
    I can live without #16 and #17

  19. #19
    My experience is that the ejaculation isn't caused by in-and-out motion.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  20. #20
    Oh don't be crass, Being. Really.

  21. #21
    It also occurred to me that the whole "demonstration" of the fucksaw could have been much more controversial, with the intended shock value, had it been used on a man instead of a woman. It's just a sex toy, after all. And the fucksaw is also advertized for anal use. For a sexually explicit class, meant to educate both men and women.....did they take the easy way out by using the device on a woman instead of a man?

    And no, I don't believe the after-class demo wasn't planned. And I don't think it had one whit to do with female ejaculation.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    To be fair, the prof didn't plan this - the after class presenter was disputing the professor's characterization of female ejaculation and the G-spot as scientifically disputed, and offered to prove him wrong right there. The prof just neglected to say 'no', he didn't plan a live sex demonstration.

    Also, Shapiro is the president and not the dean.
    Then why did the professor give 5 to 10 warnings to the class before the demo, giving students the option to leave? (Which some did) What was he going to "demonstrate" via this couple if it wasn't using motorized phallic devices, ie, the fucksaw vs "traditional" vibrators?

    Why do other articles say that proving female ejaculation was essentially an after-thought, or a dare from the "demonstrator", right before the demo of the fucksaw on stage?

    Are you saying the prof was taken by surprise, even after the woman carefully laid a towel on the stage, removed all her clothes, laid down on the towel, center stage, spread her legs.....and a man appeared out of nowhere, or from stage left, with a reciprocating SAW that was really a dildo instead of cutting blades, and penetrated her vagina to orgasm? And the prof was surprised by all of this? He simply stood there dumbfounded while this played out? pfft

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Nessus- I'm not sure anyone would be game for a live beating in a university classroom.
    What about taking a class into a boxing match?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  24. #24
    University education often involves taking students into new environments. They are named Field Studies, or field trips. It's not too often that an elective class for undergrads brings the scene to the classroom, let alone a large lecture hall. Those are usually reserved as Clinical Studies, or special Labs, based on defined majors.

    If this had been an elective class titled "Death and Dying", I doubt any professor would have brought a dead body into the lecture hall, laid it out on the stage, and expected the class to watch a forensic physician use a reciprocating saw to open the chest for an autopsy. And then claim he had no idea what was going on.

  25. #25
    What difference does it make whether the beating happens in a boxing ring or in front of a class auditorium?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  26. #26
    I doubt any professor in the 1810s would have allowed a woman into any classroom, because oh my gawsh how shocking would that be. Or a negro into a classroom before 1950. That'd just be offensive and horrid.

    What the Hell purpose does it serve to parade these examples of things you find terrifying? Put up reasons why there's no pedagogical reason to do things instead of making up inane scenarios of dead people in class rooms. Dissecting a corpse isn't much different whether it's done in a classroom or an appropriate lab, but the appropriate lab is better suited for the job equipment-wise, and legally.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    What difference does it make whether the beating happens in a boxing ring or in front of a class auditorium?
    What does matter is who calls themselves a university professor, their teaching methods, and what they claim to teach.

    If my kids can learn just as much from fist fighting, watching live boxing, or hanging out on the street corner to witness urban violence first hand, why would they think some professor in a lecture hall can teach them anything more?

  28. #28
    Anyone can pick up The Great Gatsby by themselves, so why send kids to English class? That's the dumbest thing I've seen in a while.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  29. #29
    Based on that, any kid can just go the public library and learn all they need to learn. It's all there in books, after all. Gotta bad library? Then just go to the internet. Homeschooling for everyone!



    No, I am criticizing this Northwestern "professor" for being less than professorial. Very much less than professional. He sounds like a real jackass, the kind of guy I'd love to talk with, but wouldn't want to pay to teach my kids. I wonder how he got this far. He's only 21 years old (did I read that right?) If he gets fired for this controversy, he can write a book and do the media circuit, all the talk shows, and make a few million bucks. But he will never be considered an academic expert.

  30. #30
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

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