Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
It is both fallacious and stupid, because it has no relevance to reality or to this present discussion. Hypothetically an alien spaceship could destroy Brussels, making this entire discussion moot, but it's pretty dumb to base a discussion on such an absurd hypothetical. What you showed, in effect, was that you could not find a realistic example of a deal that's objectively and obviously worse than no deal at all. You had to resort to using a straw man for your parody of a reductio ad absurdum argument that advanced no-one's understanding of anything that's being discussed right now. When Hazir suggests that any deal is better for the UK than a no deal crash-out, he isn't thinking about virgin sacrifices and alien spaceships, because he lives in the real world. As do the rest of us. Join us when you're ready.
I never said anything about aliens. You're right we're not talking about sacrificing the lives of two dozen people. We are though talking about sacrificing the rights of nearly two million people. This isn't the eighteenth century, people have the right to elect politicians to shape their laws. But you want me to approve of sacrificing the rights of everyone in Ulster. You want all my compatriots to lose their right to hold those who make their laws to account. Because you believe that you are imperialistically more powerful and can subjugate smaller neighbours and we will have no choice but to sacrifice our compatriots. We will have no choice but to ignore the wishes of those elected by the population of Northern Ireland and disenfranchise them.

That is real, that is what you are proposing. I truly wish that was me being absurd as it is an absurd suggestion, but it isn't. I deliberately chose sacrificing others as the analogy as that is literally what you are asking us to do. I have seen many Remainers and some Leavers too lamenting that the DUP are blocking a deal and saying they should be overridden. That we should sacrifice Northern Ireland for the greater good. No! No! No!
Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
As for this sanctimonious show of concern about NI and the Belfast agreement, no matter how you try to spin it it's pretty clear that the party that has come closest to violating the spirit of the argument is the UK, in taking NI out of the EU and creating a situation that will of necessity divide the island further without NI's consent (eg. through the institutions set up for consultation) and indeed against their will (strong pro-Remain majority in the referendum). The constitutional problems associated with any implementation of the backstop are easily resolved: put the matter to a vote in NI. NI is free to consent to a change in its laws whereby it will be required to accept EU rules pertaining to the single market while having no direct democratic representation at the EU. This right is indeed stronger than England's right to take NI out of the EU against its will.
There is nothing within the GFA that prevents the UK from exiting the EU as we have every right to do. In fact post-GFA both the UK and the Republic of Ireland and every other nation within the EU have ratified that right. The Irish originally rejected Lisbon and we British didn't get a say via referendum but either way it got ratified by both nations ultimately creating the very Article 50 that has since been exercised. Had the Irish stuck by their original decision there would be no Article 50 and we'd probably still be remaining. But we are where we are and we have made a choice as a United Kingdom which includes Northern Ireland. Not England, not Wales (where a majority also backed Leave lest you forget) but the question on the ballot paper was the United Kingdom.

I have absolutely no qualms with the population in Northern Ireland being free to consent to a change in its laws whereby it will be required to accept EU rules. That is their choice. That is not a choice they have made though. That is not a choice you want them to have. If we ratify this backstop that choice wouldn't have been made by them but rather for them. The population in Northern Ireland elects their own MPs to Westminster and MLAs to Stormont. If the MLAs in Stormont choose to have a referendum where voters in NI can choose to change their terms then I would respect their decision. But the majority of elected representatives elected by Northern Ireland's voters are not calling for that. In neither Stormont nor Westminster are NI's elected representatives asking for this. Both sets of which were elected last year after the referendum.

I will not treat my compatriots as pawns to be sacrificed to get what I want. They are my countrymen and they have their own rights and unless they choose to abrogate them then it is beyond the pail to strip them of their rights. They can choose that if they will. I will respect their choices either way. So should you! Their elected representatives in Westminster have been very vocal in demanding that Northern Ireland be treated no differently to Great Britain, that they do not want an Irish Sea border. So don't pretend this is for them.