I think we should minimise it where we can, within reason.Originally Posted by Aimless
Are you at all worried about carbon?
I think we should minimise it where we can, within reason.Are you at all worried about carbon?
Isn't the point of a greenhouse to use the greenhouse effect to get hot?
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
Yeah, but you still need a heat source in colder countries.Isn't the point of a greenhouse to use the greenhouse effect to get hot?
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
So? They don't make it to Kansas either. The basic point stands. I imagine that very few people in either Switzerland or Kansas can keep their buying to items made in a 150 mile radius or so (roughly the diameter of Switzerland); I assume eJ has a somewhat more expansive definition of 'not transported around the globe' than 'not transported across the Swiss border'. His response was quite reasonable (I assume he meant air travel; he's right, there the calculation is far more complex).
What's racist about any of this?
When a country is trying to recover after a recession/depression, and jobs are needed for millions of people....they can't all be filled by the domestic, non-transferrable service jobs. There's a push for in-sourcing instead of outsourcing, encouraging companies to "repatriate" profits and re-invest in American jobs. I was wondering how many here would spark that demand by changing their buying habits? As a sort of nationalism or patriotism (ie, picking a Toyota made in Ohio, knowing that's employing Americans and sustaining entire towns.)
The SOTU address by POTUS mentioned MasterLock and a group of US companies making the decided effort to move some operations back to the states, incentives for Made in the USA, getting corporations and community colleges to partner in job-training. Those companies are "consumers" too...of resources and human capital.
Apple made like a gazillion dollars in revenue and profit the last quarter, partly by outsourcing assembly line work to China---where they house workers in dormitories and make them work 12 hour shifts on a cup of tea and a biscuit, according to OG's link.
Now imagine what happens if people throughout the world were to adopt your approach simultaneously.
Hope is the denial of reality
Yeah....what if....
That's a strawman, and you know it, Loki.I don't see anything wrong with asking consumers (at all levels, including employers) at what point they'd draw the line, or would be willing to change it, when their country is facing dire economic transitions.
I would draw the line at anything at all.
What else do you call it when you're discriminating based on race?What's racist about any of this?
You may want to justify it as protecting locals (though it doesn't) but that's what all racists do.
Bullshit. Some might call nationalism "protectionist", but that's not racism. In the event of an emergency, apply your own oxygen masks before attempting to assist others.
You're an employer, Rand. You need local customers with a demand for your product, but also the ability to pay. That means you can use local manufacturers, distributors, vendors (that give people a paycheck), and that might improve your business demand. Isn't that better in the long run?
wait, what??
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Yeah, I didn't understand the racism card, either.wait, what??
It's like saying national energy independence is "racism" if we buy less oil from the middle east.
We all know why it's pulled around these parts, and what kind of people pull it. It's just another version of the rape-supporter accusationYeah, I didn't understand the racism card, either.
It's like saying national energy independence is "racism" if we buy less oil from the middle east.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
At first blush I thought your use of the word "rape" was a bit extreme. But in reality, there are groups of people quite willing to use a rape-and-plunder type of economic strategy. As if the only way to Win is leaving victims in their wake.
well that was certinly not what i meantAt first blush I thought your use of the word "rape" was a bit extreme. But in reality, there are groups of people quite willing to use a rape-and-plunder type of economic strategy. As if the only way to Win is leaving victims in their wake.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
1. I am quite certain Alienware does in fact assemble PCs in the US, it is the only logical explanation why they have diffrent components available in the US store vs. European store. If they had outsourced assembly to another country it would make good sense to centralize for all stores world wide and make all components available. They would still be able to continue regional price descrimination.
2. Patriotism is a way of replacing mediocre "I" with a glorious "We" thus improving your day. Most are guilty of this to a diffrent extent but if it motivates you to purchase inferior goods and services or more expensive ones it is taken to an unhealthy extreme.
Then what did you mean?
I suppose we should all be glad that wasn't the definition of patriotic consumerism used during WWII, when "reduce, reuse, recycle" had people connecting consumption to nationalism, or the "war effort", huh.
In the case of an emergency, apply your own oxygen mask, then those of fellow Americans, before assisting foreigners.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
The better analogy is there's a minor crash leading to some discomfort. People might feel a little bit better right away by putting on an oxygen mask. But if a sufficient amount of people put it on, a circuit blows and the entire plane blows up. That's what you're calling for. The only consequence of large-scale protectionism is everyone (on average) being worse off.
Hope is the denial of reality
Exactly. Except maybe it's more:In the case of an emergency, apply your own oxygen mask, then those of fellow Americans, before assisting foreigners.
In the case of emergency, stab yourself then apply your fellow Americans oxygen masks, before assisting any foreigners.
My paying more for something locally produced does not help me, therefore is not applying an oxygen mask to me.
It does however (actually it doesn't see:Loki, history, theory, reality etc) help fellows of our own race before Johnny Foreigner. You're using the same arguments as the BNP, any other racist party.
It's bad enough to start down a stupid track, do you have to be so determined to stay on it? Is your pathological need to "win" so totally impervious to good sense or decency?
Meanwhile, in multiracial USA and UK
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Might? MIGHT?
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Geegee's arguments could easily pass off as those of a "nationalist". Even both use the same term.
I'm glad the UK (and USA) are not insular like she wants. I don't think Geegee is a racist but I do abhor her desires like that of a racist.
The only important thing in there is your admission that GGT isn't a racist even if she favours her own society more than that of others. Homophobes use slippery slope arguments to oppose gay marriage, but does that mean we should make a point of comparing everyone on tWF to homophobes? The main point here is that GGT's position has bad and/or dangerous consequences, eg. poorer long-term social outcomes.
Call a spade a spade, not a rapist (unless it's actually a rapist spade). Or do you really want to start another bout of asinine j00j00ing?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I never said it was racist, I said it was no different to racism. Switch American with white.
So, let's say a racist party leader says he's in favour of clean air. By Rand's warped definition skills then everybody who wants clean air is a racist.
Also American != white.
Your expressions are a lot more racist than her's buddy.
Congratulations America
As long as she has a reason to bias toward America it's not the equivalent of racism. Whether it's becuase she's lives in America, so benefiting America benefits her/loved ones, or she believes America is the most just country in the world and needs to maintain it's prescense in the world. If one had reasons like that, then it isn't blind, ignorant loyalty... in much the same way that racists are racists for blind ignorant reasons. (That the connection he's making Minx/Hazir... promoting your own country over another country for the hell of it is discrimination, but why you have such bias does matter a lot.)I do not have any gut feeling about made in China/Taiwan/Mexico/whatever and find those that do no different to racism.
The connection he's desperately trying to force is that racism is sucky and disgusting and GGT['s view] is sucky and disgusting by association. It's a common debating tactic. To address your point, discrimination is not the same as racism, even though racism is based on discrimination. In most discussions, the latter has much more negative connotations.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Things are def. changing, but there is still a higher tolerance for lower quality (both apparent and actual), poor support etc. in some markets. See all the counterfeit Chinese "iPhones" for example.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I am absolutely not trying to associate.
Why is racism wrong? It is going against someone for their race, something outside of their control.
Why is this nationalism wrong? It is going against someone for their nationality, something outside of their control.
Maybe it's because of my global upbringing, growing up in another continent, I find going against someone because of their place of birth to be little different to doing so for skin colour.
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