As I said in my first post on this thread, I don't condone bullying and violence. Millions are bullied, its really a part of life in a public school. (Thank the teachers unions for that, but its a tangent). Millions don't kill themselves. The only reason this is being focused on is the number of suicides at the school. The suicide rate is the part that is different NOT the bullying.Originally Posted by Enoch the Red
I think trying to demean people who risk their lives for their country is pretty sick. Cain hates the military, police and any other type of armed authority, he's made it clear.
Do some suicides happen in the military? Of course. Just like there are some criminals in the military, bringing the military into this discussion is absurd though. Any large body of people will have some bad apples.
Aimless -
Should murderers be vilified? Should rapist be vilified? At what point is it OK to illustrate examples of bad behavior? What about racists? Oh hey is it OK to vilify bullies? I'm just wondering where you draw the line. If its OK to vilify people who have done bad things then the discussion becomes is suicide a bad thing and I think it is. Look at the damage it does.
Now if you simply think its wrong to vilify anyone who is now deceased, we'll just have to agree to disagree and move on.
We can illustrate all manner of "bad behaviors" without vilifying the people behind the behaviors....or lumping all "bad behavior" into one big group of "sinning".
Look at your own child, who will undoubtedly try to test limits of Right vs Wrong as he grows. Where will YOU draw the line? Will you chastize your son for telling little white lies...say, reading after bed time or lights out....by calling him a sinner for lying? Will you be an adult with some sense of grace and understanding, that little kids will do that kind of stuff? Or will you lump all lying into the same group as any other
"bad thing"
like suicide
because it does 'damage' to others?
Do you not think that just maybe the extent and nature of the bullying might, just might, be connected to the suicides at the school? Or are you basically just viewing them as a series of isolated and unconnected events?
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Of course the bullying may have had an impact. Of course practicing a lifestyle that is unhealthy might also contribute to the issue too. Of course when I threw the idea out there that gays might be more likely to kill themselves I was barked at by the folks here.
We're on an express elevator to hell. Going down.
I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
Which is what I am
I aim at the stars
But sometimes I hit London
Yeah, what do you think the odds are that Lewk has an actual priest to consult? For some reason, visions of stereotypical fire-and-brimstone Southern preachers are dancing through my head.
Oh, fuck you, you ignorant chickenhawk asshole.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Did Lewk just try to whitewash the bullying because he thinks being gay makes you suicidal? Instead of, you know, the harrassment being the reason?
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
My guess here is that Lewk was bullied in school, and because he didn't kill himself, it must mean, from his perspective, all bullying everywhere is the same, so the only difference between himself and these other kids are that they are gay, and don't have the same morals as he does, thus that must be the reason for the tendency towards suicide.
. . .
Meh. The simpler explanation is that Lewk hates faggots, and therefore, is looking for any excuse to condemn them. And in addition to be faggotly, these faggots are immoral for committing suicide. Who cares if they have a "valid" reason or not when all you're looking to do is find an excuse to hate you some faggots?
Sure how it looks to me, given his recent thoughts on why cops need to be excused for beating sick senior citizens to death. He likes cops, so any excuse for their behavior is sufficient, but he hates faggots, so no reason will will ever be enough.
Certainly seems to pass the Occam's razor test.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Not to be too Neanderthal, but after one time too many being bullied, I addressed the issue with my fists.
Took care of that.
Apparently got called Rocky behind my back after that incident...not exactly sure how that was meant...
Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita
It's shame that it has to come to that. At the same time, you gotta do something, and if you can't run and no-one helps you then fighting is better than freezing. But it's not a method you can rely on. Not all kids have what it takes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ziIfZx0XX5I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__Ijc...eature=related
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
But what about Hanlon's?
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Feel free to support your idea that being gay is "unhealthy" and may by a cause of suicide any time you like, you worthless maggot.
You say 'of course' there because it outrageously stupid and offensive and you couldn't reasonably have expected any other reaction, right?Of course when I threw the idea out there that gays might be more likely to kill themselves I was barked at by the folks here.
Last edited by Steely Glint; 03-01-2012 at 12:05 AM.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Wait, what unhealthy lifestyle is he talking about? Is there something unhealthy about being gay? I mean, apart from destruction by the bigots in your environment.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Remind me the difference in the lifestyles of a straight and gay 13-year-old.
Hope is the denial of reality
Count yourself lucky. I had to send two guys to the ICU before the bullies and the guys who thought they were "hard" left me alone. I mean, I'm a little proud of it, in that there were four of them, and one of me, and those cocksuckers totally had it coming, but still... a completely nerve-racking month while the school and the cops and the prosecutor decided which way to go on that mess.
No, it's a method some can rely on, but it's an absolutely travesty that anyone's forced to, least of all in an institution the government forces people to attend. 'Course, if you're a skinny brain or a weak little drama geek (etc), you probably can't rely on fighting your way out, and there's just no escape or relief anywhere... which brings me back to my "some people just require metal-pipe attitude correction therapy" theory. From what I hear, the two guys I put in the hospital become model students and never said a mean word to anyone at their new school, so it can work. <shrug>
I think we know enough about Lewk to say, that whatever the reason, he definitely harbors at least some malice t'wards the faggots. No?
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Lewk, you're making lots of statements as if they're fact, when they're not. At least not in the 21st century of life, but you'd have to put things into context to realize that.
1) "Bullying" has been around since forever, to some extent, but today's bullying 'as part of life in public school' isn't just some name-calling on the playground. Now it can mean being bullied at school, in chat rooms, on internet gaming and social sites, and via cell phones. It has a multiplying effect that follows today's kids everywhere they go, in the areas considered 'normal social activity', with a stalking mentality that goes viral.
2) This had nothing whatsoever to do with *teacher's unions*.
3) War is violent. PTSD is real. Veteran suicidal ideation, attempted suicides, and completed suicides are at higher rates than ever. Even though war casualty and death rates are at historic lows. So you can't split out suicide/bullying, suicide/violence, suicide/war by inferring it's just within 'normal limits', related to 'unhealthy lifestyle', or 'bad apples' in the bunch.
4) While millions don't kill themselves, you can't run from current facts: more kids report being a victim of bullying, more kids are being treated for social anxiety, and depression with suicidal ideation; more military and veterans report anxiety, depression, PTSD, and suicidal thoughts; more teens and vets are killing themselves.
This is about changing mental health issues, along with the age-old de-bunked theory that those who exhibit self-destructive behavior or suicidal thoughts....just aren't strong enough to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. What century are you living in?
The problem is that it's sometimes not easy to spot if you're neither victim nor perpetrator.
For example, I teach Chemistry and Physics which are both so-called "short lessons", i.e. only two hours per week. With a workload of ~23.5 lessons per week, this works out to a maximum of 12 different classes with a corresponding maximum number of 360 pupils (usually well below that one, though. Real numbers are probably more like around 280 pupils).
In those two hours I have to get them to learn what I want them to learn, grade them, answer any questions they may have and, last but not least, instill discipline. The latter part, if successful, means that I never get to see obvious signs of bullying. Which leaves the non-obvious, subtle signs. Which are pretty easy to miss if you have to fight hard to remember who pupil X is because he never says anything unless you actively ask him to. And you usually have about at least 5 silent pupils in your class.
What it boils down to: If teachers discover bullying, it's because of random chance (they happen upon the pupils why bullying / they find notes / ...) or because they have enough time to really get to know their pupils. As I said, I see a class for about 90 minutes each week. That's not sufficient.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Oh, I understand why teachers can't be school cops or police bullying, and I don't blame the teachers - its the administrators, politicians and parents (plus the bullies themselves, natch) who deserve the blame for the existence of this situation.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Your attitude is the problem. By giving people an "out" that they can't "help themselves" when they become addicted or self-destructive you have given them an excuse.
This is about changing mental health issues, along with the age-old de-bunked theory that those who exhibit self-destructive behavior or suicidal thoughts....just aren't strong enough to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. What century are you living in?
Its that type of dis-empowerment that causes so many problems. This retarded culture of never blaming someone for their actions is repulsive. It creates a helpless mentality and constant excuse making. And if we have more diagnosed cases of social anxiety and depression it is because of this crap.
Sure, makes perfect sense. Blame suicidal teens for being depressed, and that'll fix everything.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
You still haven't said what self-destructive activities a 13-year-old gay child would engage in that their straight counterpart would not.
Hope is the denial of reality
Don't hold your breath.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Suicide, obviously
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Also, faggotry.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Faggotry begets suicide being the main thrust of the argument
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Yeah, our war vets with PTSD (previously called Shell Shocked in WWI) are just looking for an "out" to blame others, with excuses for their learned helplessness. How repulsive.
What, are you saying it doesn't?
I mean, for example, look at these dead faggots! Since no straight kid ever killed himself for being bullied, it must be the faggotry part, right?
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
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