The redemption of a nihilist

[Nessus]

Dreadnaught said he likes my little essays. So here we go.

I don't know how to explain this so that it can be understood, and I'm almost certain you will simply find me cliche. But either way.

I think it is fair to say I had killed myself long before I kicked the chair under my feet. I spent months explaining to myself why I should not exist. I detailed the many facets of it, I slowly and methodically worked my way through all the rationals one would have for living. I convinced myself all were wrong.

The physical act of attempting to kill myself was just the logical end result of a process that had been going on for some time. Without the will to live, one doesn't, not really. Existence is pointless, meaningless.

But I was inept. I didn't manage to snuff myself out. So, as a person of science above all else, I figured that either I'd do it again, or I would attempt to correct the potential mal-function in my head. It was of course possible I had made a false deduction somewhere down the line. It sounds strange, I believe, that this was how I approached it, but that was, and is, how I see the world. I seek to understand, nothing further. And I knew it was possible for the human brain to malfunction. So I owed it to, I don't even know whom, to see whether my hypothesis was correct.

That was years ago. Years I've spent seeing a therapist, trying to scrape back together a life.

It's went well. I work with some of the most famous people in the world, at least in their field. I have become that which I always wanted, a scientist. Trying to understand.

And I had already come to see the horror of what I'd done, from the point of view of others. I have understood some time ago what an enormously terrible thing it would have been for my parents, my family, had I managed to kill myself. It is a terrible thing. I cannot ask anyone for forgiveness, and none can ever be afforded me. I can accept that, I am an adult. I can face responsibility for my choices, made under illness or not.

But it wasn't until now, just now. Having spent a day with someone, someone who could amaze me. A silly analogue would be meeting number Six. But there it was, anyhows. A day interacting with something you didn't conceive possible. To know, for a certainty, that the potential exists.

Now I understand what a horrible thing it was, from my own point of view. If I had died, I would never have had that day.

The enormity of it all is almost too much to bear. I can hardly breathe when I think about it.

It was years ago that I tried to physically end my life. It is only now that I feel I'm alive again.

I don't know what happens next. I still think I'm a nihilist. And that terrifies me.

[Steely Glint]

[wiggin]

Dreadnaught said he likes my little essays. So here we go.

I don't know how to explain this so that it can be understood, and I'm almost certain you will simply find me cliche. But either way.

I think it is fair to say I had killed myself long before I kicked the chair under my feet. I spent months explaining to myself why I should not exist. I detailed the many facets of it, I slowly and methodically worked my way through all the rationals one would have for living. I convinced myself all were wrong.

The physical act of attempting to kill myself was just the logical end result of a process that had been going on for some time. Without the will to live, one doesn't, not really. Existence is pointless, meaningless.

But I was inept. I didn't manage to snuff myself out. So, as a person of science above all else, I figured that either I'd do it again, or I would attempt to correct the potential mal-function in my head. It was of course possible I had made a false deduction somewhere down the line. It sounds strange, I believe, that this was how I approached it, but that was, and is, how I see the world. I seek to understand, nothing further. And I knew it was possible for the human brain to malfunction. So I owed it to, I don't even know whom, to see whether my hypothesis was correct.

That was years ago. Years I've spent seeing a therapist, trying to scrape back together a life.

It's went well. I work with some of the most famous people in the world, at least in their field. I have become that which I always wanted, a scientist. Trying to understand.

And I had already come to see the horror of what I'd done, from the point of view of others. I have understood some time ago what an enormously terrible thing it would have been for my parents, my family, had I managed to kill myself. It is a terrible thing. I cannot ask anyone for forgiveness, and none can ever be afforded me. I can accept that, I am an adult. I can face responsibility for my choices, made under illness or not.

But it wasn't until now, just now. Having spent a day with someone, someone who could amaze me. A silly analogue would be meeting number Six. But there it was, anyhows. A day interacting with something you didn't conceive possible. To know, for a certainty, that the potential exists.

Now I understand what a horrible thing it was, from my own point of view. If I had died, I would never have had that day.

The enormity of it all is almost too much to bear. I can hardly breathe when I think about it.

It was years ago that I tried to physically end my life. It is only now that I feel I'm alive again.

I don't know what happens next. I still think I'm a nihilist. And that terrifies me.

I don't even know if there is an appropriate response for such a post. All I can say is that took some guts and introspection to write. Someday ask me about my college roommate, eh?

And...:

It was years ago that I tried to physically end my life. It is only now that I feel I'm alive again.

I'm happy about this. I know the individual in question who caused this epiphany may be somewhat inaccessible, but moments of great clarity can and do occur... and they will in the future.

[Enoch the Red]

Dreadnaught said he likes my little essays. So here we go.

I don't know how to explain this so that it can be understood, and I'm almost certain you will simply find me cliche. But either way.

I think it is fair to say I had killed myself long before I kicked the chair under my feet. I spent months explaining to myself why I should not exist. I detailed the many facets of it, I slowly and methodically worked my way through all the rationals one would have for living. I convinced myself all were wrong.

The physical act of attempting to kill myself was just the logical end result of a process that had been going on for some time. Without the will to live, one doesn't, not really. Existence is pointless, meaningless.

But I was inept. I didn't manage to snuff myself out. So, as a person of science above all else, I figured that either I'd do it again, or I would attempt to correct the potential mal-function in my head. It was of course possible I had made a false deduction somewhere down the line. It sounds strange, I believe, that this was how I approached it, but that was, and is, how I see the world. I seek to understand, nothing further. And I knew it was possible for the human brain to malfunction. So I owed it to, I don't even know whom, to see whether my hypothesis was correct.

That was years ago. Years I've spent seeing a therapist, trying to scrape back together a life.

It's went well. I work with some of the most famous people in the world, at least in their field. I have become that which I always wanted, a scientist. Trying to understand.

And I had already come to see the horror of what I'd done, from the point of view of others. I have understood some time ago what an enormously terrible thing it would have been for my parents, my family, had I managed to kill myself. It is a terrible thing. I cannot ask anyone for forgiveness, and none can ever be afforded me. I can accept that, I am an adult. I can face responsibility for my choices, made under illness or not.

But it wasn't until now, just now. Having spent a day with someone, someone who could amaze me. A silly analogue would be meeting number Six. But there it was, anyhows. A day interacting with something you didn't conceive possible. To know, for a certainty, that the potential exists.

Now I understand what a horrible thing it was, from my own point of view. If I had died, I would never have had that day.

The enormity of it all is almost too much to bear. I can hardly breathe when I think about it.

It was years ago that I tried to physically end my life. It is only now that I feel I'm alive again.

I don't know what happens next. I still think I'm a nihilist. And that terrifies me.

This was a difficult post to read, in no small part because there were often times where I could see the pain, (is pain even the right word?) you were in, but I didn't feel like I had the right words or the proper connection, to say something that I thought could be taken in a meaningful way. I don't know the circumstances surrounding your decision, or for that matter the time period in which it occurred, but it saddens me to think that it was simple happenstance that has kept you with us. I know, speaking personally, that this forum would not nearly be as interesting, or compelling a place without you, and yet those words do not describe the depths of emotion I feel when I consider the construct my brain has created that embodies Nessus. In fact, it's a callous and hollow way of describing you, and your contributions to me.

Which brings me to another, somewhat tangential realization. Maybe I'm imbuing this community with something it simply doesn't have, or perhaps I've read something into it that does not really exists, but on some level I care for/about each of the posters here. They aren't all deep connections, or meaningful relationships, but there is a value that I place on you that goes beyond the electronic bits and bytes we share. It's not my intention to hijack your thread, and if there are others that believe this is a worthwhile discussion topic I'll edit and take it elsewhere, but I'm curious about what this community means to you, Nessus, and to everyone else that happens across this post.

Hell, many of us have been talking for years, and I'm guessing we've broached taboo topics and held in-depth discussions with each other that we likely have not always had the drive or opportunity to do with people we have had close personal relationships with. For whatever reason this community has survived, and kept members coming back, even when the vast majority of our interactions flirt with acrimony. We are drawn to interact with each other, and this goes beyond the ease with which we can communicate; it hasn't always been easy. Members have circumvented bans, switched forums, shared intimate details about their lives, held private and public discussions, bickered, argued, and baited each other, spent hundreds of hours reading and formulating ideas, and still we come back. There's something here, in this mix of people and ideas, that I value. There's something compelling in world views that are often so diametrically opposed to my own, and even when I disagree with the poster or the politics, I love the interplay between each of us.

Thank you for sharing Nessus. I know it's not always easy to pull back the curtain and share something real, but I admire your continued willingness to do so.

If you'd like me to edit or remove this post Nessus, just let me know.

[Illusions]

I don't know what happens next. I still think I'm a nihilist. And that terrifies me.

There is nothing inherently wrong with nihilism depending on the perspective you take. For instance, it could be worse. The universe could have a purpose or meaning, one that is counter to your own being. Its actually a bit freeing. Wonderfully freeing. I don't really know beyond this what I could say. While I am capable of writing what I assume is intelligently, the ability to translate what is in my head is not at the level of yourself, and your ability to imbue it with both meaning and aesthetic value. Even if I were about to vocalize or write these thoughts, I am uncertain whether my reasoning or perspective would be relatable or useful. IMHO, as I highly value altruism, I thank you for your post, however I feel sorrow that I cannot offer anything of equal worth in return.

[coinich]

There is nothing inherently wrong with nihilism depending on the perspective you take. For instance, it could be worse. The universe could have a purpose or meaning, one that is counter to your own being. Its actually a bit freeing. Wonderfully freeing. I don't really know beyond this what I could say. While I am capable of writing what I assume is intelligently, the ability to translate what is in my head is not at the level of yourself, and your ability to imbue it with both meaning and aesthetic value. Even if I were about to vocalize or write these thoughts, I am uncertain whether my reasoning or perspective would be relatable or useful. IMHO, as I highly value altruism, I thank you for your post, however I feel sorrow that I cannot offer anything of equal worth in return.

If I may tag onto the first part, I've figured that in the absence of an authority god, or really any purpose for existence I've decided I like that little ditty that says "the purpose of life is to give life purpose". If I can be so bold as to say, it sounds like your science has provided you with an excellent outlet to make a worthy mark on the world. If I've terribly misunderstood, sorry.

[EyeKhan]

There is nothing inherently wrong with nihilism depending on the perspective you take. For instance, it could be worse. The universe could have a purpose or meaning, one that is counter to your own being. Its actually a bit freeing. Wonderfully freeing. I don't really know beyond this what I could say. While I am capable of writing what I assume is intelligently, the ability to translate what is in my head is not at the level of yourself, and your ability to imbue it with both meaning and aesthetic value. Even if I were about to vocalize or write these thoughts, I am uncertain whether my reasoning or perspective would be relatable or useful. IMHO, as I highly value altruism, I thank you for your post, however I feel sorrow that I cannot offer anything of equal worth in return.

#1. You're a fine enough writer - makes me wonder what's really in your head that you think you can't express it.

#2. I was thinking the same thing about nihilism. Having that philosophy doesn't need to be redeemed.

@ Nessus - I'm very happy you failed to end your life. I don't know you well but what you contribute here is definitely valuable, regardless of how you feel about it personally. This is my measure of value alone, which is as it should/ must be. You know, and anyone and everyone ought to know, there is no objective value to anything. But that doesn't make life unworthy of living - in a very real way it makes an individual's life more meaningful. Our culture constrains us, certainly, but in the end we determine what value we place on everything, based on how we feel, our wants and needs, and our whims. By your post it seems you've gone from giving no value to your life to understanding/ realizing it actually has great value. There-in lies your redemption, and you don't have to give up nihilism to have that, eh? Stickin' it to the Void - that's valuable.

[Aimless]

Well I'm glad you got to have that day it's hard to get your mind around innit

[Nessus]

I puke up these things and then it is hard to follow up.

Andrew: That was, I think, at the core of what I finally saw. That these things can happen, that they do happen. And boy golly, just for the chance of them, I want to be kicking around! The person in question in the story isn't accessible, but the fact that they exist changes my internal calculation. Their existence is enough. And what a strange thing that is to say.

Enoch: I don't mind at all. I think it's very much true what you say. The same applies to you for the most part, but I will high-light here Loki as I feel he's my arch-nemesis. I vehemently disagree with most/a lot of what he thinks (how would you quantify that?), but it is somehow important to me to know what he thinks. I often have mock debates with him in my head! What I think of Loki, or you, is different than what I think of say Steely, but I still would grieve never hearing from Loki again. Or you. I kind of want to reference that mock conversation between Einstein and Marilyn Monroe in Insignificance; I must forever keep turning the possibilities around in my head, I have to keep thinking to ever approach the truth. There is great value in being challenged by people of your own caliber.

And we are still able, I feel, to share emotional bonds of sorts even with our nemeses; if Loki is sad, it doesn't make me altogether happy! At the very least when the reasons do not divide us ideologically, I'd call him friend and commiserate. (And if they do divide us, he can go fuck himself )

Illusions, we don't tangle that much, but you read and commented, that's the most I could reasonably expect. I can understand if it doesn't feel like much to you, but it doesn't have to be. I think by now I'm fairly certain a vast majority of this has to transpire between my own ears, and the distant input from as little as we do interact can't be expected to play a great role. But I think it valuable that you bothered to say anything.

Coinich, you're more or less correct, now that I have something to feel good about myself, and that being something I have valued easily as long as I could be considered a human being, it's made it possible to approach life as desirable.

Chaloobi, we know each other fairly well context withstanding. Anyhows, you could be right. You are right about how I view my own existence. Nihilism frightens me because it implicitly demands a certain amount of detachment; just because I recognize my passions for science and women are arbitrary might not be enough, their arbitrariness itself denies them certain value. I think. I'm not sure.

Minx, you're goddamned right it is

[EyeKhan]

Chaloobi, we know each other fairly well context withstanding. Anyhows, you could be right. You are right about how I view my own existence. Nihilism frightens me because it implicitly demands a certain amount of detachment; just because I recognize my passions for science and women are arbitrary might not be enough, their arbitrariness itself denies them certain value. I think. I'm not sure.

But your passions are NOT arbitrary. They have value because whatever about you - the sum of your experiences and your genetics - looks out through your eyes and gives them value. What else matters? You are the measure of value - not the bible, not any cosmic struggle of good and evil, not Adam Smith's markets or even, <shudder>, Stanley Kubrick. When value is denied, when detachment is demanded, that's not some objective reality - that is YOU choosing to restrict yourself.

All that said, consider this. Nobody here posts more interesting pictures than you. (Sorry Ziggy, you're a close second....) Anyone might disagree, but they'd be wrong. Especially Fuzzy. I find real value in what you like to post and I know from experience that (at least some of) what you like to read has value too. So in addition to the power nihilism gives you to value what you want, your interests are also validated by my own judgement. And truthfully, as far as I can tell nothing is valuable unless I value it.

[Lebanese Dragon]

Andrew: That was, I think, at the core of what I finally saw. That these things can happen, that they do happen. And boy golly, just for the chance of them, I want to be kicking around! The person in question in the story isn't accessible, but the fact that they exist changes my internal calculation. Their existence is enough. And what a strange thing that is to say.

Are you a mathematician now? . All I have to say is all humans are the same, and your worth is internal, don't hinge it to anything else! Glad you've found something enjoyable. The universe has many secrets.

[Dreadnaught]

Thanks for sharing.

Isn't this more about the sunsetting of nihilism and the rise of some kind of...different engagement? Which I think is a good thing, BTW!

[Nessus]

Isn't this more about the sunsetting of nihilism and the rise of some kind of...different engagement? Which I think is a good thing, BTW!

It doesn't follow, at all. Nihilism isn't the sole purview of the depressed and bored of life; arguably the most powerful people in the world at the moment, those running the various banking and financial institutions, are nihilists to the core. The magick of the thing is that since nothing has inherent value, you're free to arbitrarily choose your own values. Their choice is simply different from mine.

What horrifies me is the ontological challenge hereforward; is it possible to live with the emotional dissonance of genuinely caring about something and recognizing its destruction is the most beautiful thing to some other sub-set of humanity? I'm deeply worried that I will have to re-examine the ash of Auschwitz and I honestly do not know what lies on the other side.

[Aimless]

Wait, she's BROWN?!?!??!

[Nessus]

The married chick? No.

[Aimless]

Oh, whew, I was really shocked there for a mo

[CitizenCain]

I'm deeply worried that I will have to re-examine the ash of Auschwitz and I honestly do not know what lies on the other side.

Sounds dangerous. Could lead to giving a shit, or other fates worse than death.

[Hazir]

If Marilyn Monroe was so stupid, then why did she kill herself?

[EyeKhan]

If Marilyn Monroe was so stupid, then why did she kill herself?

She didn't. Her murder was covered up to look like a suicide.

[CitizenCain]

You're both wrong, a bushel of strawberries costs a small fortune in LRA-occuppied territories.

[Catgrrl]

Nessus, I wanted to let you know I have read this a few times now, and thought about it for awhile. Unfortunately, I do not possess the ability to accurately portray my thoughts in writing form. I just wanted to thank you for sharing your thoughts with us, and though it may be terrifying, it's also an amazing part of the human experience that chance meetings can throw our world, and what we know to be true, into chaos. I think life is always about reevaluating one's priorities and perspectives. Our experiences shape us. Consider it just as you would discovering something in the scientific world. That there is more out there. I agree that it is terrifying, but maybe it can be more than just that. Living is a whole range of emotions, after all. Finding a balance in that is very difficult.