Corporate affirmative action for women?

[Aimless]

I think the Swedish parliament is ca. 50-50

[Aimless]

What I don't understand is how Margaret Thatcher can be some sort of super-argument that trumps everything. She's one woman, and a very manly one to boot. Which is the only way for a few women to get ahead in this world, alas

[Enoch the Red]

What I don't understand is how Margaret Thatcher can be some sort of super-argument that trumps everything. She's one woman, and a very manly one to boot. Which is the only way for a few women to get ahead in this world, alas

Couldn't the same argument be made that by determining the metric for equality being positions that have traditionally been male-dominated, you are doing the exact same thing? You're demanding that equality, or what you consider equality, come at the sake of the very qualities that many women use to define themselves?

In short, if you think the only way a woman can be equal to a man is by pursuing careers that might only appeal to, or demand a masculine attitude, aren't you saying they can only get ahead by becoming a man?

[Loki]

What I don't understand is how Margaret Thatcher can be some sort of super-argument that trumps everything. She's one woman, and a very manly one to boot. Which is the only way for a few women to get ahead in this world, alas

What do you do if women simply aren't as interested in politics? Have a look at the debate societies in high school, politics classes in college, and local elections. If women consistently make up a quarter to a third of the people interested in politics, why would you expect them to have equal representation with men at the top? When you add the fact that countries like the US and UK have a first-past-the-post electoral system, it becomes unreasonable to expect a group that makes up substantially less than a third of the top candidates to get anywhere near half of all seats. Sure, you can force parties to run more women, but how does that change the underlying reality about women being less interested in politics? I would think a better approach would be to try much harder to get girls interested in politics at an early age and recruit more female candidates in local races, not to force unqualified MPs upon the country.

[wiggin]

I think the Swedish parliament is ca. 50-50

Maybe because most Swedish political parties have internal gender quotas? Not exactly a shining example.

[Aimless]

Look, i was just saying we've met cain's demand. Swedish politicians are all so mediocre that it doesn't matter how they get in, but the parliament members are generally individually voted in

[Loki]

Um, the parties choose the candidates, and one of the options is to simply vote for the entire party list.

[Aimless]

Um, the parties choose the candidates, and one of the options is to simply vote for the entire party list.

Sure but the keen voter can be specific if he likes, although it doesn't really matter due to aforementioned general mediocrity. Anyone know how Norway's experiment with corporate affirmative action has turned out?

[wiggin]

Look, i was just saying we've met cain's demand. Swedish politicians are all so mediocre that it doesn't matter how they get in, but the parliament members are generally individually voted in

My understanding of the Swedish political system is vague, but I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people just vote for the party list, which is set by the internal quota. The point is that this ratio has been mandated from above (albeit not due to a law), rather than a naturally occurring distribution because Swedish politics are so wonderfully egalitarian.

Yes, I understand your point to Cain, but my question is whether you think this is a good idea. Should government representatives be mandated on the basis of anything other than merit and the result of an election? I certainly don't think so.

[CitizenCain]

Yes, I understand your point to Cain, but my question is whether you think this is a good idea. Should government representatives be mandated on the basis of anything other than merit and the result of an election? I certainly don't think so.

I'm not sure sure it wouldn't be a lateral move to how we pick our tyrants these days, but the suggestion that government force this rule on itself first is an obvious case of setting it up to fail in government, so that they don't set it up to fail in private enterprise. Let the voters hear that their candidate who won in a landslide can't legally take office because "not enough women," and that'll be the end of that idea, I'm betting.

[Dreadnaught]

Ah, yes. "Why is it such a problem if there are no women in important decision-making roles?"

Back to the kitchen it is then, I guess. They should be grateful that we let them vote!

I don't see how you don't recognize the strawman you're making when your country has a female Prime Minister.

More generally, this is the problem with all these "disperate impact" analyses that are cropping up in various court cases. Yes, disproportionate representation can indicate a problem. But the numbers themselves don't define a problem.

[GGT]

What do you do if women simply aren't as interested in politics? Have a look at the debate societies in high school, politics classes in college, and local elections. If women consistently make up a quarter to a third of the people interested in politics, why would you expect them to have equal representation with men at the top? When you add the fact that countries like the US and UK have a first-past-the-post electoral system, it becomes unreasonable to expect a group that makes up substantially less than a third of the top candidates to get anywhere near half of all seats. Sure, you can force parties to run more women, but how does that change the underlying reality about women being less interested in politics? I would think a better approach would be to try much harder to get girls interested in politics at an early age and recruit more female candidates in local races, not to force unqualified MPs upon the country.

I'd say take a look at the culture of High Schools first, then connect college level political science interest as a result, or at least a corollary. Same could be said for math, science, or engineering. Girls haven't been encouraged, welcomed or recruited in STEM fields until recent years. Debate societies in HS had a perverted incentive for popularity. During my HS years, taking classes like Constitutional Law or Trigonometry meant being the lone female. Being the elected class treasurer wasn't based on skills or goals, but popularity.

Thankfully, hopefully, that's changed over the years. Now we have women who aren't only interested in politics, or political science, but law and justice. More women as para-legals and attorneys than ever before. It's a long slog to get women into POP (positions of power) and choose elected office. Just ask Olympia Snowe from the great state of Maine how hard that is.....

[GGT]

BUMP

What do y'all think of the Augusta National Golf Club and the possibility of inviting their first woman member? It's traditionally been offered to every CEO of IBM, and IBM has been a long-standing sponsor of the Masters Tournament. IBM now has its first female CEO. Should Augusta have its first female member, too?

[CitizenCain]

Clearly, she shouldn't be allow to join until after completing gender reassignment surgery.

Seriously, what's the point of question, and what relevance does it actually have to the thread?

[GGT]

Because it's current news with the Master's Tournament being played, and it's related to corporate affirmative action for women...with a different twist from the OP.

The question is whether Augusta will continue or change its policies for a CEO who happens to be female, and if/how that might affect IBM's future sponsorships. Other corporate sponsors (with women executives, board members, clients and consumers) are watching, too. Their decision wouldn't come via a government mandate or quota, but from changes within the golf and business cultures....and pressures from public opinion.