The siege of Toulouse aka. Muslim Kills Jews
Have you guys been following this?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/17455224
The comparisons to Breivik--and the criticisms against the French right--came early in Swedish media, and they don't really seem to know how to handle the fact that the perp is a Muslim. I gather the BBC was very smooth in acknowledging the need for a soft touch.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Uhm, I don't get the comparison to Breivik. Wasn't he a crazy right wing anti-immigrant white dude? The suspect in the French shootings has an immigrant mother, is a Muslim with self-professed radical Islamist leanings/ties, and was upset about 'Palestine and Afghanistan'. I mean, they're both politically motivated terrorism, but that's about it.
I didn't start a thread because I don't think there's much to say. Antisemitic Islamist fundamentalist kills some of the French Occupation Forces and a few Jews. Dog bites man. It's terrible, but essentially a non-story.
I think Minx is referring to speculation as to the ideology of the attacker before anything concrete was known about him. I remember hearing reports that he was likely part of the far right in France, if not an out and out neo-Nazi. In fact, if you Google neo-Nazi right now you, the first hit is an AP article talking about how the suspect is likely affiliated with far right extremists. The content of the article has been updated with the newest information, but the headline remains.Originally Posted by wiggin
That is not to say that it would be a stretch of the imagination to see this coming from neo-Nazi groups within Europe.
Neo-Nazi groups in Europe rarely target the military, and their violence is generally of the random street attacks variety.
Hope is the denial of reality
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03...ildren-deaths/French paratroopers Imad Ibn Ziaten, Abel Chennouf and Mohamed Legouade were killed last week by the same gunman responsible for the Ozar Hatorah shooting in Toulouse, police believe.
The three dead soldiers included two members of the 17th parachute regiment. Police have interviewed three former soldiers expelled from the regiment for neo-Nazi activity in 2008, but a police source told Reuters on Tuesday they had been ruled out of the investigation.
If you look at the names of the soldiers and the story it doesn't really is that far off to suspect a neo-nazi.
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
Yes, the soldiers are Arab and black, but I still can't recall the last time Western European Neo-Nazis went after people in uniform. I also can't recall the last time they planned an operation against Jews (their attacks are usually opportunistic or are against property). I thought there was an outside chance this was done by Iran, but the only other two reasonable scenarios were a Muslim extremist or a Norway-type psychopath (yes, the Norwegian guy was also a Neo-Nazi, but his attack wasn't supported by any Neo-Nazi organization).
Hope is the denial of reality
*shrugs* I didn't have any opinion on his motivations until they found the suspect. I don't understand why people (and the media) speculate without cause. Plenty of kooky ideologies out there from all parts of the spectrum.
Gun violence is pretty rare in Europe, especially when it's planned and involves multiple targets.
Hope is the denial of reality
Since when does the media not speculate about any incident that is extraordinary? It's part of the game.
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
Well, there's a segment of humanity (by which I mean virtually all of it) that prefers jumping to conclusions and confirming their biases to defering judgement, or thinking, or other fates worse than death.
Surprising you haven't figured that out already.
I'm personally just relieved that this particular shitbag got shuffled off to the next life, instead of 3 years in the court system. A little miffed that they even tried to take him alive, but at least it worked out in the end.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
double post
Several police officers were wounded during the arrest and one is in a hospital in critical condition, that is pretty pathetic result when you have the suspect isolated without a way of retreat and without hostages. After having prepared the operation for over 24 hours...but at least it worked out in the end.
Sure, but I hate cops, and love more examples of the French national allergy to combat-effectiveness,so, well, yeah. Like I said, it worked out in the end. Anti-Semitic thug dead, uniformed thugs wounded. Good deal.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Nature loves symmetry; I remember seeing the first reports of the Norwegian bombing (and later shootings) and I immediately thought "right wing loonie", while the media talking heads were more or less openly blaming Mohammedans.
The neo-social democrat Weltanschauung has a hard time recognizing the fact that radical Mohammedanism is just as much against what they call civilization as the far right fascists. This has been evident for ages.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Doesn't help that the terrorist was previously deported from Afghanistan and was on a French watch list. You'd think the police would take a closer look at the guy after the first murder, but no.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17475293
Though at least they didn't get 5 injuries from a single dog.
Hope is the denial of reality
Early speculation in the media based on premature conclusions. They were too keen, apparently something wonderful about being the first one out with a comment/opinion.
While Muslims killing Jews is commonplace in the US, this sort of event is still fairly rare in much of Europe (or, at least, that's the public impression), and extremism is still a hot new topic in some places (such as Sweden). The "twist" of it actually being a Muslim this time makes it even more interesting to a spoiled populace that's becoming increasingly irritated with political correctness.I didn't start a thread because I don't think there's much to say. Antisemitic Islamist fundamentalist kills some of the French Occupation Forces and a few Jews. Dog bites man. It's terrible, but essentially a non-story.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Hope is the denial of reality
I wasn't being serious
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
The larger French Muslim/Jewish organizations are all being very nice about this, but I can't help but think this reinforces the less fortunate arguments of each group: from the Jews who think France is fundamentally anti-Semitic and Jews must move to Israel/America to the Muslims who think France must be purged of its Jews.
Last edited by Dreadnaught; 03-25-2012 at 10:33 PM.
I'm not sure how this reinforces the arguments of fundamentalist Muslim groups...
But agreed on the French Jews thing. A huge proportion of the French expat community in Israel saw this as a vindication of their beliefs, and France continues to lose Jews to emigration at a pretty fast clip. Given that it's apparently a bad idea to take the Paris subway wearing a skullcap, I'm not sure this is a bad thing, either.
Last edited by wiggin; 03-25-2012 at 10:56 PM.
In that the guy will be seen as a hero to some subset of his community. His mother is married to the father of a famous Syrian "martyr" who helped shuttle Jihadists into Iraq around 2005-2006. And his brother is being formally investigated.
This guy was no lone wolf, and there is a subsection of the French population that will quietly praise him. Just like there is a subsection of the French Jewish population that will quietly say, "Told ya France is no good for Jews."
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