What's it really like to claim job-seeker's allowance?

[Loki]

If those guys in England are anything like our guys in Germany, then the job agency is really a high point of annoyance for anyone with a skill-set above "low". And I'm not too sure about the ones with low skills, either.

Case in point: My own experience. After I had finished my studies, there was a three months gap until the start of my teaching job (university ends at the beginning of October, hiring new teachers-to-be ("Referendare" in Germany) begins at the end of January).

Not to deny your main point, but why exactly did you need unemployment benefits if you were fairly certain you were going to get a well-paying job in three months? The way I see it, unemployment benefits are contingent on you accepting the jobs that you're offered to get you off benefits as quickly as possible. If you know you'll have a job soon, it seems rather dishonest to claim the benefits without doing the second part. Not saying you yourself are dishonest, since German law allows for this nonsense, but I fail to see a reason for allowing it.

[Khendraja'aro]

Thank you for proving my point!

There was a job out there available to you, but you didn't want it. Same as I've said countless times in this thread and you're backing it up thank you . You should have been in a position where you took that job. A system whereby its more productive to not work than to take a job like that is a completely broken system.

Surely it can not be better for you to be withdrawing from the taxpayer rather than supporting yourself in a call centre job?

Well, way to miss the point. What I was getting from the state was enough for rent, food and other necessities of life. Even a bit less money would've been somewhat uncomfortable.

So I'm not quite sure why exactly you're overjoyed about this company paying less than the state - unless you want people who cannot turn down such a job offer to be absolutely miserable and dirt poor? Keep in mind that the money we get is calculated to be the minimum living standard.
I don't see the benefit of supporting such scum of the earth.

Not to deny your main point, but why exactly did you need unemployment benefits if you were fairly certain you were going to get a well-paying job in three months? The way I see it, unemployment benefits are contingent on you accepting the jobs that you're offered to get you off benefits as quickly as possible. If you know you'll have a job soon, it seems rather dishonest to claim the benefits without doing the second part. Not saying you yourself are dishonest, since German law allows for this nonsense, but I fail to see a reason for allowing it.

We're required to file for unemployment or we'll get massive problems when it comes to retirement age. And since it was the state itself which made this three months gap mandatory (ALL universities' summer semesters end in October!), I really don't feel guilty about that. They originally hired people at the end of October - it's only recently that they switched it to the beginning of February.

Now, honestly, would you want to hire someone for a job if you know he'll be gone in two or three months? I remember my times in call centers - and we always needed several weeks to be fully capable with what the job demanded of us.

[Asmodian]

Not to deny your main point, but why exactly did you need unemployment benefits if you were fairly certain you were going to get a well-paying job in three months? The way I see it, unemployment benefits are contingent on you accepting the jobs that you're offered to get you off benefits as quickly as possible. If you know you'll have a job soon, it seems rather dishonest to claim the benefits without doing the second part. Not saying you yourself are dishonest, since German law allows for this nonsense, but I fail to see a reason for allowing it.

The unemployment benefits are there to maintain an uninterrupted stream of income for someone in between jobs, a person working surrenders a significant part of his income to this scheme. Therefore is entitled to a certain period when he will continue to receive uninterrupted income for a fixed period of time. System is unfair in that this time period is limited to 2 years for those that have worked for 20 years and those that have worked 2, but I do not see anyway to fix it without creating massive social unrest.

I don't see why getting you working asap has anything to do with it, if this is to have any benefit at all is to provide me with a grace period to find an acceptable job. I view it same as health insurance, I waste money every month paying for it but when I get sick I expect them to help fix whatever is wrong with me not to get me out of the hospital ASAP.

[Loki]

We're required to file for unemployment or we'll get massive problems when it comes to retirement age. And since it was the state itself which made this three months gap mandatory (ALL universities' summer semesters end in October!), I really don't feel guilty about that. They originally hired people at the end of October - it's only recently that they switched it to the beginning of February.

Now, honestly, would you want to hire someone for a job if you know he'll be gone in two or three months? I remember my times in call centers - and we always needed several weeks to be fully capable with what the job demanded of us.

Like I said above, I don't blame you, but I fail to see a reason for these ridiculous regulations. It's like the state enjoys forcing people into using its services.

[Khendraja'aro]

Like I said above, I don't blame you, but I fail to see a reason for these ridiculous regulations. It's like the state enjoys forcing people into using its services.

Again, would you have provided me with a decent-paying job for those three months?

[Loki]

The unemployment benefits are there to maintain an uninterrupted stream of income for someone in between jobs, a person working surrenders a significant part of his income to this scheme. Therefore is entitled to a certain period when he will continue to receive uninterrupted income for a fixed period of time. System is unfair in that this time period is limited to 2 years for those that have worked for 20 years and those that have worked 2, but I do not see anyway to fix it without creating massive social unrest.

I don't see why getting you working asap has anything to do with it, if this is to have any benefit at all is to provide me with a grace period to find an acceptable job. I view it same as health insurance, I waste money every month paying for it but when I get sick I expect them to help fix whatever is wrong with me not to get me out of the hospital ASAP.

Except you're not really unemployed in that you're not actually looking for a job; you already have one. Save some money to last you the three month; and if you have an offer of employment, you should have no problem getting a bank loan if you don't have savings. It should not be the job of government to help skilled workers use loopholes to further increase their income. I'm getting my last pay check this May, and won't start working until late August (assuming I find a job before then). I have no intention of applying for unemployment since I'll know whether I'll have a job by May.

Again, would you have provided me with a decent-paying job for those three months?

Of course not. Use the time to brush up your skills or take a vacation. If you're truly desperate for cash, there are plenty of temp jobs out there that have no expectation of you staying more than a few weeks.

[Steely Glint]

I don't know if its by accident or design that the sub-category of long-term keeps getting ignored. Bear in mind that approximately 99% of people are not classed as long-term unemployed.

Maybe it's because until now nothing you've said has suggested that talking specifically about long-term the unemployed? Also, your condemnatory tory-boy horseshit is hardly any less offensive when applied solely to the long-term unemployed.

Furthermore it is not healthy or ideal for the individual concerned to spend a lifetime not doing anything, that way is shown to lead to a number of problems (including drugs etc) as well as having an influence on others.

No, it isn't. Unfortunately, you seem to have no solutions beyond 'lol, get a job dole-scum'.

Further support (and compulsion) for these individuals is completely different to viewing it the same as everyone.

Couldn't parse this sentence.

True, so-called disability rates are astronomical in some areas. And not a good thing for those who're genuinely disabled.

No, it isn't.

[Khendraja'aro]

Of course not. Use the time to brush up your skills or take a vacation. If you're truly desperate for cash, there are plenty of temp jobs out there that have no expectation of you staying more than a few weeks.

Right. "Plenty of temp jobs".

Heh. Keep in mind that for the duration of these three months I was staying in a small town and that the next bigger town has a university in it.

There was and is nothing "plentiful" about those temp jobs.

Not to mention that you're talking about a country and an area you know next to nothing about, so please, don't try to give me advice about my own country.

[Loki]

Right. "Plenty of temp jobs".

Heh. Keep in mind that for the duration of these three months I was staying in a small town and that the next bigger town has a university in it.

There was and is nothing "plentiful" about those temp jobs.

Not to mention that you're talking about a country and an area you know next to nothing about, so please, don't try to give me advice about my own country.

I've read plenty about Germans complaining about more and more jobs becoming temporary instead of permanent.

[Khendraja'aro]

I've read plenty about Germans complaining about more and more jobs becoming temporary instead of permanent.

Yes. Temporary in the sense of "your contract is extended for another six months, a year or some other increment".

Not in the sense of "you can drop in or out at any time".

All my jobs during my time at university were temporary in that sense. Didn't mean that a guy who only had three months free time was hired, however. I was always asked: "How long do you think you'll remain at the university?", with the implied statement: "Don't bother applying if you're here for less than six months."

[Loki]

Do you not have temping agencies, where you get hired for a few weeks to do (predominantly) secretarial work?

[Ominous Gamer]

Took slightly over 2 months for the mother of a couple of kids Brandy babysits to land a job through one of those. She makes $10 an hour, working from 3 or 4 till midnight, doing something with home foreclosures.

[Khendraja'aro]

Do you not have temping agencies, where you get hired for a few weeks to do (predominantly) secretarial work?

Yes. But even those agencies want you for longer stints than mere months. Yes, you get hired out for only some months, weeks or only a day. But your contract with the temp agency, that is a bit more long-term.

[Loki]

The joy of not having at-will employment.

[Khendraja'aro]

The joy of not having at-will employment.

The unemployment rate is currently at 6.6%.

So, your point would be exactly ... what?

[RandBlade]

This is extremely short sighted. One shouldn't immediately move down several rungs in the workforce because they found something they are simply capable of doing. By taking that lower job you are removing your ability to fully commit to finding the right job. A job that would pay the taxpayers back several times over.

Immediately? Yeah I can agree to that.

Except Khen said he already had a job arranged and needed something temporary. So this was perfectly suitable.
Also 18+ month unemployed people wouldn't fall under immediately either.

There is also the problem of states over here cancelling support for just about anything, including adsense accounts that don't make enough to pay for a lunch.

Then fix the problem.

Maybe it's because until now nothing you've said has suggested that talking specifically about long-term the unemployed? Also, your condemnatory tory-boy horseshit is hardly any less offensive when applied solely to the long-term unemployed.

Really? Because I've mentioned the long term in every post, since the first reply of this thread.

[Loki]

The unemployment rate is currently at 6.6%.

So, your point would be exactly ... what?

Yeah, you have that unemployment rate because of your labor inflexibility. You must have had at-will employment before Merkel, when unemployment stayed at above 10% (http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=gm&v=74).

[Dreadnaught]

The unemployment rate is currently at 6.6%.

So, your point would be exactly ... what?

May Allah bless Gerhard Schroeder's Agenda 2010?

[Ominous Gamer]

Also 18+ month unemployed people wouldn't fall under immediately either.

What would your limit be?

[Asmodian]

Except you're not really unemployed in that you're not actually looking for a job; you already have one. Save some money to last you the three month; and if you have an offer of employment, you should have no problem getting a bank loan if you don't have savings. It should not be the job of government to help skilled workers use loopholes to further increase their income.

Hmm I have a section in my social deductions that is specifically for this purpose, i.e. to maintain my income at roughly the same level (its actually caped at 10k a month so not quite), I together with my employer contribute roughly 10% of my gross salary for this purpose why would I not make use of this and eat in to my savings instead? This is my money, the job I hypothetically found does not begin right away so the government gets to return some of the money it stole from me, it is perfectly legal btw. Its called unemployment insurance it insures me against losses in income during breaks in employment.

Now it is caped at one year and a half regardless of how much money the state leached of me before I lost my job and I must have worked at least 2 consecutive years prior to being entitled to it and you must have been fired from your past job to get it. After the 1.5 years expire you can still get something called AI, which insures you have enough to survive but is not dependant on your previous income.

[Khendraja'aro]

Yeah, you have that unemployment rate because of your labor inflexibility. You must have had at-will employment before Merkel, when unemployment stayed at above 10% (http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=gm&v=74).

Wait, I'm talking about current measures, politics and rates - and you're trying to go back in time again?

Weird, must be some kind of Loki-esque misinterpretation of reality. Or your usual shenanigans. I mean, just look at what you tried to pull with your "temp work" argument, where you have just shown that you didn't know the first thing about what you were actually talking about. And now you're trying to do that again.

[Flixy]

Asmodian, you should remember that according to several people here it's outstanding if you are wealthy and use tax rules, or even sending money to tax havens, to save yourself money (while staying within the rules), but when you're unemployed and use completely legal tax rules or welfare possibilities to save yourself money, you're an immoral piece of shit. Even when you're not even abusing the system but simply use the income insurance and/or other welfare you've paid your fair share of. In fact, for using them exactly in the situation they were intended for.

[Loki]

By "several people here", do you mean your drunk buddies?

[Nessus]

I'm not your buddy, pal

[Loki]

I'm not your pal, friend.

[Flixy]

By "several people here", do you mean your drunk buddies?

My drunk buddies don't go to these forums. And I'm assuming they are more or less sober at 2PM on a tuesday, but it's summer so you never know.

What a pathetic whining dole-bludger.

That would be one person I am referring to, for example.

[RandBlade]

What would your limit be?

At the most, increments of 6 months.

I think its reasonable to spend upto 6 months seeking a job in your old industry. After 6 months you should widen your search to anything you're qualified for. After 12 months you should be able to take anything at all, even menial entry-level unskilled jobs. After 18 months I think its far beyond reasonable to give hardcore assistance to those who've been unable to support themselves.

I further think that it should be possible to take a part-time job in any indusry while looking - and those who do so should not be penalised for it. One of the greatest flaws in the system is the withdrawal of benefits too soon, providing a virtual 100% tax rate (sometimes more) on people - that is morally wrong IMO. A withdrawal of benefits should be classed the same as a tax of earning - and at the same rate. Not a 100% cliff. You implement a cliff and people won't jump off it. It is the fault of the government that in Khen's example he'd get less working from a call centre than he would not working - I don't understand how anybody can justify that situation.

[Veldan Rath]

I further think that it should be possible to take a part-time job in any indusry while looking - and those who do so should not be penalised for it. One of the greatest flaws in the system is the withdrawal of benefits too soon, providing a virtual 100% tax rate (sometimes more) on people - that is morally wrong IMO. A withdrawal of benefits should be classed the same as a tax of earning - and at the same rate. Not a 100% cliff. You implement a cliff and people won't jump off it.

This, oh gods this. Trying to get someone will a low skill set into the job force should not be an all or nothing strategy. Some people WANT to work. But withdrawing benefits completely when they find part time work is short sighted.

[Ominous Gamer]

I think its reasonable to spend upto 6 months seeking a job in your old industry. After 6 months you should widen your search to anything you're qualified for. After 12 months you should be able to take anything at all, even menial entry-level unskilled jobs. After 18 months I think its far beyond reasonable to give hardcore assistance to those who've been unable to support themselves.

Timbuk2, the data entry specialist Now that would be a quality use of his skills

I further think that it should be possible to take a part-time job in any indusry while looking

Getting fired for doing job interviews only digs the hole deeper.