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Thread: "Malicious Communications"

  1. #1

    Default "Malicious Communications"

    Increasingly, in the UK, the charge of "Malicious Communications" has been brought to bear upon members of the public who use social media or other electronic communication to post messages which have caused offence.

    Most recently we have Tom Daly, the British Olympic diver who missed out on a medal yesterday.

    Tom Daley Twitter abuse: Police arrest boy in Weymouth

    A teenager has been arrested by police investigating abuse of Team GB diver Tom Daley on Twitter.

    After coming fourth in the men's synchronised 10m platform diving event on Monday, the 18-year-old received a message telling him he had let down his father.

    Daley's father Rob died in 2011 from brain cancer.

    A 17-year-old boy was arrested at a guest house in the Weymouth area on suspicion of malicious communications.


    ~

    Various other recent arrests:
    ________________________

    Arrest over 'racist tweet' at footballer Danny Simpson

    A man has been arrested after a Premier League footballer was allegedly subjected to racist abuse on Twitter.

    Newcastle United defender Danny Simpson claims he was targeted on the social networking site on Monday.

    Northumbria Police arrested and bailed an 18-year-old man on suspicion of malicious communications.

    ________________________

    Councillor Ken Gregory cautioned for 'get Aids' voicemail

    A Tory councillor who left a message saying "with a bit of luck you'll get Aids" on another councillor's phone has been cautioned by police.

    Ken Gregory, a member of Thanet council in Kent, received a caution for malicious communications on Wednesday.

    John Worrow, who is bisexual and an Independent on Thanet District Council, received the voicemail message on his mobile phone earlier in May.

    Mr Gregory has been suspended from the Thanet council Conservative group.

    ________________________

    Man sentenced over racist tweets about Newcastle United

    A football fan who posted racist comments on Twitter directed at Newcastle United has been given a suspended jail sentence.

    Sunderland fan Peter Copeland, 29, had admitted two offences under the Malicious Communications Act.

    ________________________

    Jade Goody website 'troll' from Manchester jailed

    An "internet troll" who posted obscene messages on Facebook sites set up in memory of dead people has been jailed.

    Colm Coss, of Ardwick, Manchester, posted on a memorial page for Big Brother star Jade Goody and a tribute site to John Paul Massey, a Liverpool boy mauled to death by a dog.

    The 36-year-old "preyed on bereaved families" for his "own pleasure", Manchester Magistrates Court heard.

    He was jailed for 18 weeks for sending "malicious communications".

    ________________________

    .... and the list goes on ...

    ~

    The draft of the Malicious Communications Act states:

    1 Offence of sending letters etc. with intent to cause distress or anxiety. Any person who sends to another person— .
    (a)a [letter, electronic communication or article of any description] which conveys— .
    (i)a message which is indecent or grossly offensive; .
    (ii)a threat; or .
    (iii)information which is false and known or believed to be false by the sender; or .
    (b)any [F2article or electronic communication] which is, in whole or part, of an indecent or grossly offensive nature, .
    is guilty of an offence if his purpose, or one of his purposes, in sending it is that it should, so far as falling within paragraph (a) or (b) above, cause distress or anxiety to the recipient or to any other person to whom he intends that it or its contents or nature should be communicated.

    (2)A person is not guilty of an offence by virtue of subsection (1)(a)(ii) above if he shows— .
    (a)that the threat was used to reinforce a demand [F3made by him on reasonable grounds]; and .
    (b)that he believed [F4, and had reasonable grounds for believing,] that the use of the threat was a proper means of reinforcing the demand.

    ~

    Is this law fair?
    Does it infringe on the right to free speech?

    I'm a firm believer that one has the right to say, pretty much, whatever one wants to another, and that it should remain legal to do so, whether the remark is insulting, offensive, sexist, homophobic or racist.

    However, this line is blurred when transferred from oral communication from one to another, let's say one person passing another on the street, to being a recording accessible to the public, say a twitter or facebook post.

    This blurring of the line conflicts with my belief. I'm unsure whether the offenders referred to in the cases above should face legal consequences or not.

    Does the fact that the offensive remark is subsequently accessible by thousands, millions, and is therefore a matter of public record, somehow worsen the remark?

    Is there similar legislation in other countries?

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    There is a fine line to be drawn between free speech (which I believe in as a right and think we're not careful enough to protect) and harrassment, libel, slander etc

    The latter three have never been permitted, and are normally illegal anywhere. The Malicious Communications Act fits into that vein of thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  3. #3
    Libel and slander are covered by other, more specific laws.

    Harrassment is more of a grey area, which may fall under this act.

    But it was more the off-hand remarks that people have made, as detailed in the cases I outlined in the OP, that I am concerned with here.

  4. #4
    Sorry, but there is no sane reason for defending the making of trash talking illegal. It's simply insane. Since when is saying anything hurtful illegal? Maybe we can start arresting people at school cafeterias or on soccer pitches, because things far worse than that get said. To even imply that a public statement that's offensive somehow crosses the line into harassment or ludicrous.

    Rand, you think that if I tweeted that Gordon Brown's parents should be ashamed of him for the crappy job he did as a PM, I should be arrested for harassment?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  5. #5
    The definition of harassment usually involves some kind of on going pattern of behaviour targeted towards an individual. No one of incident should ever be described as harassment. This whole thing is insane, we shouldn't be criminalising being a dick on the internet.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  6. #6
    And as far as trolling goes, this was incredibly tame. Might as well arrest everyone who writes comments at the Daily Mail or Yahoo "News".
    Hope is the denial of reality

  7. #7
    I agree that there should be a pattern of abuse and not one-off.

    I don't know if the series of Tweets have been deleted or not, but there was not just the one Tweet. Not saying this arrest isn't an over-reaction but there was a whole series of abusive Tweets there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #8
    You want to make repeatedly insulting a public figure illegal? Were there threats of violence? Did the guy commit libel?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  9. #9
    Yeah to be honest I have been wondering when someone would bring this up. It seems like a big fad right now to criminalize being a dick on the internet. I can't see why it should be illegal, though I do think that threatening statements are a bit different.

  10. #10
    Let's say we're both standing in front of a police officer, and I say "I'm going to kick your ass" to you but don't take any further steps. What do you think are the odds I'll get arrested? 0.01%?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Let's say we're both standing in front of a police officer, and I say "I'm going to kick your ass" to you but don't take any further steps. What do you think are the odds I'll get arrested? 0.01%?
    In this example, are you black?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Let's say we're both standing in front of a police officer, and I say "I'm going to kick your ass" to you but don't take any further steps. What do you think are the odds I'll get arrested? 0.01%?
    Okay, but if you send someone threatening hate mail, I do think that's problematic.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    Okay, but if you send someone threatening hate mail, I do think that's problematic.
    Really? You know how many people would get arrested if this was a prosecutable crime? Celebrities get thousands of hate mail each...
    Hope is the denial of reality

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Might as well arrest everyone who writes comments at the Daily Mail or Yahoo "News".
    Good plan. But let's stay on topic.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  15. #15
    Isolated twitter comments probably don't count as harrassment. That phone message however I don't know about.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You want to make repeatedly insulting a public figure illegal? Were there threats of violence? Did the guy commit libel?
    To the second question yes, there were death threats.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #17
    Recently a woman in a high profile job in the government of a country in Latin America had a video of herself stolen and posted in Youtube. It is no big deal, as she wears underwear that is just like a swimsuit at the beach. She is saying things that any woman in love would say to a lover. It belong to the private life of that woman.

    Incredibly, BBC wrote about her instead of writing about the one who has stolen the material and posted it on the net. It ended up in a massive press bullying event that is openly offensive as it violates her right to privacity. They say she is a woman with public life, but even those people have right to a private life. The massive coverage of that is the equivalent of stoning her, as any web search using her name returns news about this.

    A man filmed himself using underwear, saying the same things she said and there was no news coverage. It seems that her sin was to be a woman and to have a high profile job. Even if it was a woman copycat, she would have been in the news. It tells me how discriminatory the media is. The sin is to be a woman.

    BBC behave like a discriminatory yellow journalist paper. I will not refer to her, her job or her country, so it will not ass a Google entry. Just a matter of respect.
    Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.

  18. #18
    How in the hell is this the fault of the BBC and not the fault of the government that dismissed her for recording a stupid video?

  19. #19
    No idea what AR81 is on about.

    ~

    Article in the Beeb today ...

    New Twitter abuse laws not necessary, say police

    New laws to help police deal with cases of abuse on social website Twitter are not needed, senior officers have said.

    Recent examples have included offensive tweets aimed at Olympic diver Tom Daley and Bolton footballer Fabrice Muamba.

    Stuart Hyde, of the Association of Chief Police Officers, said forces should take a "common sense" approach.

    The Police Federation, which represents rank-and-file officers, said police could not be expected to investigate every instance of abuse on Twitter.

    Only this week Blue Peter presenter Helen Skelton said she was closing down her Twitter account because of the negative comments she was receiving.

    Cumbria Chief Constable Mr Hyde, who speaks on e-crime for the Association of Chief Police Officers, said police should get involved if people's lives were being made a misery.

    But asked if new laws were needed, he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "No, I think we have got quite a lot of legislation, dating back to the Malicious Communications Acts of 1998 and 2003. There is a lot there that helps us and gives us the power to do stuff.

    "This is a new technology, a new way of communicating, it has grown exponentially. There hasn't been separate legislation so we are using legislation that wasn't particularly created for this but it works reasonably well most of the time."

    He continued: "We are learning from it, there are things that have sometimes gone wrong and I think sometimes it is important that we make sure we provide the service people need.

    "If people come to us and say 'I am really upset, I've been offended, my life has been made a misery and I want somebody to do something about it', then yes the police should, whenever possible, try to help."
    Mr Hyde said abuse on Twitter did not appear to be a huge problem, based on the number of complaints police were receiving.

    "I don't want police officers dragged off the streets to deal with frivolous complaints. Where these complaints are pretty serious then it is quite right that we should intervene, and we do that," he said.

    "It is important to look at the whole context. It is not just about one tweet, it is a whole range of tweets. Look at what the individual has done - is this a concerted attempt to have a go at one individual in a way that passes the threshold for offences against the law? If it is, then clearly we should intervene and do something to stop it."

    Mr Hyde urged Twitter to play its part in policing its own site.

    Police Federation spokesman Steve Evans said "The sheer scale of it is huge. Police resources are stretched almost to breaking point so if we started trying to investigate every instance of stupidity within Twitter then we would be really pushed.

    "That doesn't mean to say we won't deal with criminal offences. If criminal offences are clearly there, then it is the police's job to investigate them."

    Earlier this year Twitter chief executive Dick Costolo said it would introduce measures to help curb the proliferation of "hate speech" and so-called trolling on its service.

    "The reason we want to allow pseudonyms is there are lots of places in the world where it's the only way you'd be able to speak freely," he said.

    "The flip side of that is it also emboldens these trolls. How do you make sure you are both emboldening people to speak politically but making it OK to be on the platform and not endure all this hate speech? It's very frustrating."
    Mostly a reasonable discourse; continued harassment which causes one's life to become a misery should be investigated, whereas the odd off-hand comments should not (and indeed could not).

    However, the Twitter comment aimed at Tom Daly was a single off-hand comment, yet the perpetrator was still arrested and charged. I'd like to see the police comment on that.

    No comment on the infringement of free speech and how arrests over Twitter comments plays into that, but then I wouldn't really the expect rank-and-file Police to do so.

  20. #20
    It wasn't a single off hand comment:



    Some later Twitter comments appear to have been removed from the site but apparent attempts by the user to apologise remained. "@TomDaley1994 I'm sorry mate i just wanted you to win cause its the olympics I'm just annoyed we didn't win I'm sorry tom accept my apology." He added: "please i don't want to be hated I'm just sorry you didn't win i was rooting for you pal to do britain all proud just so upset."

    Later, however, another tweet to Daley read: "i'm going to find you and i'm going to drown you in the pool you cocky twat your a nobody people like you make me sick".

    Tweets to other users who criticised his earlier message were spiked with profanity. One read: "i dont give a shit bruv i'm gonna drown him and i'm gonna shoot you he failed why you suporting him you cunt." Another, to a different Twitter user, read: "do you want me to come to your fucking house now with a rope and strangle you with it."
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012...ey?INTCMP=SRCH

    Basically, death threats = arrested. I still think the Malicious Communications act is a bad piece of legislation, but in this particular case I don't think police involvement was unwarranted.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  21. #21
    Tom Delay needs to learn to internet. Why would he even respond?

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    To the second question yes, there were death threats.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    However, the Twitter comment aimed at Tom Daly was a single off-hand comment, yet the perpetrator was still arrested and charged. I'd like to see the police comment on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Basically, death threats = arrested. I still think the Malicious Communications act is a bad piece of legislation, but in this particular case I don't think police involvement was unwarranted.
    Exactly any death threats (no matter how minor) should at least warrant an investigation/caution which is what happened here. I've been on the receiving end of death threats, now matter how puerile its not funny.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  23. #23
    Ah okie Steely. The several media reports I'd read quoted the single "you let your dad down, I hope you know that" comment.

    lol "what the hell I'm on sky news" - doesn't take long in this day and age ...

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    lol "what the hell I'm on sky news" - doesn't take long in this day and age ...


    Yeah that's funny. His tirade continued after that mixing apologies and threats. I believe at one point he threatened Sky - yeah that's going to help!

    Its all been deleted now which is probably why the Mainstream media haven't repeated and instead concentrated on the initial Tweet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  25. #25
    Turns out, morons are on the internet.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Beeb
    Outrage at India arrests over Facebook post

    The arrest of two women on Monday over a comment on Facebook has sparked off widespread anger in India.

    One of the women had criticised the shutdown of Mumbai in her post, after the death of politician Bal Thackeray, while the other "liked" the comment.

    The women, accused of "promoting enmity between classes", were released on bail after appearing in court.

    The death of the controversial Hindu nationalist politician on Saturday afternoon brought Mumbai to a halt.

    In her Facebook comment on Sunday, 21-year-old Shaheen Dhanda wrote: "People like Thackeray are born and die daily and one should not observe a 'bandh' [shutdown] for that."

    Her 20-year-old friend Renu Srinivasan 'liked' the status.

    The Times of India newspaper responded with the headline: "Shame: 2 girls arrested for harmless online comment."

    The newspaper said the arrests were a "clear case of abuse of authority".

    "The girl was not slandering anybody, nor was she promoting hatred towards any community".

    The newspaper said the charges should be dropped and a case of "wrongful arrest" registered against the police.

    Press Council of India Chairman Markandey Katju has written a letter to the Maharashtra Chief Minister Prithviraj Chavan criticising the arrests.

    "We are living in a democracy, not a fascist dictatorship. In fact, this arrest itself appears to be a criminal act, since... it is a crime to wrongfully arrest or wrongfully confine someone who has committed no crime," Mr Katju, a former Supreme Court judge, said.

    Telecommunications Minister Kapil Sibal was quoted as saying by the Press Trust of India news agency that he was "deeply saddened" by the arrests.

    "It is their point of view, and enforcement of these laws are not to ban people from expressing their views," he said.

    In recent months, police have arrested a number of people in cases which are being seen as a test of India's commitment to freedom of speech.
    At least when people in India are arrested for making harmless Facebook posts, people are outraged by it, and speak out against it. Wish I could say the same for the UK.

  27. #27
    I'm not sure this would have been busted under the UK's malicious communications act.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  28. #28
    I've seen countless remarks like that on Facebook, none have resulted in arrest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I've seen countless remarks like that on Facebook, none have resulted in arrest.
    Give it time
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  30. #30
    I'm actually curious what would happen if some prominent non-white politician in Britain died and people made similar tweets/Facebook posts about him.
    Hope is the denial of reality

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