But of course all those people (half the US-American populace, mind!) simply have got to get off their butts and go looking for better jobs! It's that easy! [/lewk]
But of course all those people (half the US-American populace, mind!) simply have got to get off their butts and go looking for better jobs! It's that easy! [/lewk]
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Your NPR author needs to learn some basic statistics and something called the ecological fallacy.Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Hope is the denial of reality
I was just referring to what they mention in Chacha's link:
I remain convinced that Romney needs to sit down and learn about Venn diagrams.— "About half of people who don't owe income tax are off the rolls not because they take advantage of tax breaks but rather because they have low incomes."
— Of the rest in that group, 75 percent "pay no income tax because of provisions that benefit senior citizens and low-income working families with children."
To imply that most of those who don't pay income taxes are getting away with something, however, raises questions. "Put bluntly," Economix writes, "these are not households shirking their tax liabilities. The pool consists mostly of the poor, of relatively low-income working families and of old people. The tax code is specifically designed to reduce the burden on them."
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Erm, so 87.5% of the people who don't pay income tax don't pay it because they don't make enough money. What's your point? Do you find it unreasonable to assume that people who are highly dependent on government assistance aren't going to vote for the guy who wants to cut government spending?
Hope is the denial of reality
Wait, Romney is complaining about people not paying income tax?
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Believe it or not, 13% is higher than 0%.
Hope is the denial of reality
So, any and all Americans who pay the 15% rate or higher have the right to look upon on Romney as some kind of mooching scrounger?
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Do you believe the 47% of Americans who do not pay income tax are all irresponsible moochers off the government who don't care about their own lives? Seriously?
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
Do you believe that any time someone makes a general statement, they intend to apply that statement to every member of the group they are describing? Not going to defend the ineptness of the NPR piece you linked to by the way?
Hope is the denial of reality
The solid majority. That's the point of a general statement.
Are you going to tell me whether or not any American paying 15% income tax or higher is right to call Mittens a scrounger?Not going to defend the ineptness of the NPR piece you linked to by the way?
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
This is what I remembered right away. Lewk only recently celebrated that he was finally paying taxes. So does that mean he was worthless, someone who would have voted for Obama no matter what, someone who refused to take responibility and woudn't care for himself?
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
I find it silly for a man who greatly benefits from tax deductions and exemptions to impugn other people who benefit from the same, esp. when the latter group needs it far more than he does and consists to a significant extent of people who've either paid taxes all their lives or will do so. I do recognise that many in that group will not want to vote for him, of course.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Nice of you to totally miss his point, which is about dependence on government largesse not on dodging taxes.
Hope is the denial of reality
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...o-the-47-vote/
A decent chunk of people who don't pay federal income tax are likely Romney voters. Esp. seniors who draw SS and Medicare. I wonder if those folks appreciate being referred to as moochers....or the "entitlements" they paid into is seen as "welfare".
Romney said these things to his supporters, at a $50,000/plate fund raiser dinner, held at the home of one of his wealthy donors. He already has their vote, they already want to pay less in any tax, they already buy into the Trickle Down theory that Tax Cuts = growth .....so why did he wander into this divisive narrative about The Others?
He's also manipulating the term INCOME as it relates to taxation and federal revenue, because he's talking to high-income voters. Almost everyone pays some type of tax that funds Federal spending, whether it's a consumption tax, excise tax, surcharge or fee. Even the unemployed, working poor, senior citizens, college students, and military personnel. I'd like to see a chart showing how much Federal Revenue actually comes from Federal Income Tax.
Both candidates acknowledge that we have a huge deficit that needs to be paid off. Hell, everyone knows that. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't know we're spending more than we take in with revenue, especially after The Great Recession. Their approaches are very different, though.
I think it's a big mistake for Romney and the GOP to frame their ideology the way they have, using pejorative terminology like Food Stamp President, Welfare President....Makers vs Takers....wealth redistribution, SSSocialism, etc. Painting the picture that millions of Americans are just moochers and loafers, with a "victim" mentality and "expectations" that teh gummint should take care of them.
He's showing his disconnect from millions of average Americans....who want that job. That most Americans DO equate work with being self-reliant and responsible. A job (or two) that pays enough to provide food and housing for their families, send their kids to a decent school, see a doctor when they're sick, pay for the meds and treatments they need, and have some care and dignity when they're older. That if a bad patch happens, they're not labeled as moochers or slackers for needing some temporary assistance. That they won't be put out on the streets as a beggar, or viewed as a leech, when they can't keep up with costs of living -- or growing old.
Federal welfare programs, 0% income tax rates and other government safety nets effectively subsidize the low wages paid to the bottom rung of employees in an large company, low wages directly translating into increased profits for companies such as the ones Mittens made his money from, making him one of the biggest scroungers of them all.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Minx didn't miss the point. You did. Romney is dependent on government largesse (corporate welfare) AND a tax system that favors high-income tax dodging. He also benefits from our electoral process and two-party-dominant system that floods the electorate with campaign ads, filled with falsehoods and propaganda, funded by anonymous super PAC donors.Nice of you to totally miss his point, which is about dependence on government largesse not on dodging taxes.
He's also being disingenuous about "China as a cheater" strategy. Romney and Bain Capital gained multiple million$ by out-sourcing and off-shoring, firing American workers, raiding their retirement funds, closing domestic plants (after he forced them into bankruptcy by loading them up with debt)....and sending them to China.
That makes absolutely zero sense. Is it your assertion that without welfare, wages for the unskilled would actually increase?
Hope is the denial of reality
I can't speak for Steely....but it's true that low worker wages can translate into increased corporate profits. The kind of thing that made Romney his million$ in venture capital, and corporate 're-structuring' at Bain Capital. The kind of business transaction that could just as easily be called vulture capital and/or corporate raiding.
Without federal assistance programs, those working at the bottom rungs of employment income might become the mobs with pitchforks..... at all of Romney's gated residences, and his wealthy country club and beach-side benefactors.
Ah yes, another one of those "government is the reason you are what you are" arguments.
Hope is the denial of reality
No, just that profits wouldn't be as high. Or you'd have to spend some money to train a new hire because an employee died of starvation or exposure.That makes absolutely zero sense. Is it your assertion that without welfare, wages for the unskilled would actually increase?
. . .
Romney is the epitome of what "government" can do that way. From Utah to Mexico, and back again, using government definitions of religious freedom and marriage. Plus government exemptions from the Viet Nam War draft specifically for Mormons (he wouldn't have to claim CO status even is his draft number was called). His father built Mitt's life of privilege, one that only CEOs of auto companies and/or Governor's families enjoyed. Private schools, VIP status, special favors, a very sheltered and protected life. With stock options.Ah yes, another one of those "government is the reason you are what you are" arguments.
That makes no sense. No welfare would mean a higher supply of labor, which means somewhat lower cost of labor. I'm not quite sure how someone working a full time job would starve to death or not have anywhere to live...
Hope is the denial of reality
Romney pays taxes. He supports the government programs with his tax dollars. The 47% do not.
You're lumping "welfare" in with all "government" programs. Not really a surprise, since you're a Romney fanboy now.
Millions of Americans work full-time jobs, sometimes two or three part-time jobs, but are still living paycheck-to-paycheck, and qualify as working poor. Not because they're spendthrifts, wasting their income on booze or lottery tickets, or because they're lazy ass moochers. It's quite simply because basic COL are higher than their wages.
No, they won't starve to death, but might become obese and diabetic-prone by subsisting on the cheapest, crappiest carbs. If you've ever worked in a charitable food pantry, or seen the type of foodstuffs "the government" provides to food banks, you'd know that. And no, they won't lack shelter....if you count their cars, tent cities, homeless shelters, trailer parks, or packing 8 people into a 2 bedroom apartment.
Then he should have no reservations about sharing his tax return history with the voting public.
Including you. Using your mortgage interest, marital status, dependent child, and healthcare deductions. Didn't you brag about getting a federal tax refund a while ago?The 47% do not.
Why would you release his tax returns when asked to by liberals? So they can focus more on legal tax deductions he has taking? Its a dumb move politically.Then he should have no reservations about sharing his tax return history with the voting public.
Including you. Using your mortgage interest, marital status, dependent child, and healthcare deductions. Didn't you brag about getting a federal tax refund a while ago?
And I was not *bragging* about not paying any taxes. I was talking about how absurd it was that I pay no taxes. Furthermore I *do* pay taxes now. And my position on taxes has remained consistent when I wasn't paying taxes to now when I pay some income taxes (10% or less this year probably) and will continue to stay consistent when I pay more taxes in the future. Tax cuts are good but they should benefit everyone *assuming you pay taxes*. Everyone should have some skin in the game when it comes to the federal income tax.
True, fair point.
********
Romney's remark was inarticulate, but it's merely sped-up what began last week, and what I predicted long ago:
Around the time of the conventions, the media would begin to hit Romney hard over everything, big and small. Too many members of the media are simply too culturally and politically invested in the Obama narrative to let it go, and we're beginning to see it show. I'm not really talking about the 47% thing as much as the Libya thing, the middle-income definition thing, etc.
Oddly enough, I got to see Bill Clinton speak to a semi-private gathering a few months ago where he was asked to weigh-in on the election. The gathering was about a hundred people and it was recorded, so it's not like this was a secret conclave. Clinton said that Obama would win the election for a number of reasons. His #2 reason was that, come September/October, the media would simply "wake up and begin to make the determination" that Obama had to win the presidency, and this determination would inform the coverage of the race, much as it did in 2008.
To Romney's credit, he's embracing this thing full-on and trying to direct the discussion to a question of government's size. But the media doesn't really want to play ball on this as they would if Obama was trying to direct the discussion. This will be tough.
No doubt it makes it more difficult for Romney but I still believe that the American people still believe that America is prosperous because of freedom not government. When that 47% becomes 57% we are basically screwed.True, fair point.
********
Romney's remark was inarticulate, but it's merely sped-up what began last week, and what I predicted long ago:
Around the time of the conventions, the media would begin to hit Romney hard over everything, big and small. Too many members of the media are simply too culturally and politically invested in the Obama narrative to let it go, and we're beginning to see it show. I'm not really talking about the 47% thing as much as the Libya thing, the middle-income definition thing, etc.
Oddly enough, I got to see Bill Clinton speak to a semi-private gathering a few months ago where he was asked to weigh-in on the election. The gathering was about a hundred people and it was recorded, so it's not like this was a secret conclave. Clinton said that Obama would win the election for a number of reasons. His #2 reason was that, come September/October, the media would simply "wake up and begin to make the determination" that Obama had to win the presidency, and this determination would inform the coverage of the race, much as it did in 2008.
To Romney's credit, he's embracing this thing full-on and trying to direct the discussion to a question of government's size. But the media doesn't really want to play ball on this as they would if Obama was trying to direct the discussion. This will be tough.
Commented about this earlier. Before this point, how badly did you consider yourself a victim? In what ways were you unwilling to take personal responsibility? Why were you unwilling to care for yourself or family?
and that 47% includes everything from millionaires to seniors. Why do you hate America so much?
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
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