Does that make Merlin Molotov?
Does that make Merlin Molotov?
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
You still get a "great deal" because your employer subsidizes your premiums, AND has access to large group negotiations with lower up-front costs, AND gets tax deductions that are not available to others.Originally Posted by Dreadnaught
Every year in the US, many people with health insurance (or Govt. Medicare) can change their insurance preferences around late October/early November.
Due to increased costs and mandates from Obamacare, my employer re-bid the entire company's workforce. We went from having 4 provider choices to just one (with two different options). Oh, and our employee premiums were increased slightly.
I still get a great deal, but hopefully middle-class voters are paying attention to all their mail on these issues.
Hint: the attack was not based on a disagreement with their political position.
Hope is the denial of reality
But you only attack political positions
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
You know, like every other employer in the country.
Oh, and unlike individuals, which Obamacare curiously forgot to address...
Nonetheless, I appreciate you subsidizing my health care.
I don't attack people for their political positions.But you only attack political positions
Hope is the denial of reality
Good news!
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
We may not like Obamacare for several reasons, but it's not because it "ignored" the individual. To the contrary, it aims to empower individuals and (eventually) decouple access and affordability of CARE from employment.
At least you're being honest in the admission that ALL health care is connected, whether public or private.Nonetheless, I appreciate you subsidizing my health care.
Torture comes and torture goes
Knights who'd give you anything
They bear the cross of Coeur de Lion
Salvation for the mirror blind
I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
Which is what I am
I aim at the stars
But sometimes I hit London
If that were the case, they simply would have stopped subsidizing employer-based plans and saved all that paper.
Are you kidding? Large employers hired lobbyists from the insurance industry to keep the "employer mandate" intact, along with their tax deductions.
So all the lefties that passed the bill were bought and paid for?
Drain the swamp indeed Nancy!
Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita
Last debate in 15 mins, folks
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
The righties were bought and paid for, too. Don't forget the PPACA was based on conservative principles of "individual responsibility", and pushing the individual mandate (Heritage Foundation in particular) with approval from the Insurance Industry. It only became anathema when passed by a Democratic majority under a Democrat President.
Who passed the bill again?
Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita
At least your honest. Obama said people won't lose their employer care. You recognize that Obama care is the first step on a path towards losing it. You're OK with this (and there are certaintly advantages to it) but I guess its too much to expect honesty from Obama.We may not like Obamacare for several reasons, but it's not because it "ignored" the individual. To the contrary, it aims to empower individuals and (eventually) decouple access and affordability of CARE from employment.
At least you're being honest in the admission that ALL health care is connected, whether public or private.
The employer based health care system is a really bad idea you know. It limits employee mobility, it saddles companies with expenses their foreign competitors don't have.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
So do union contracts and pensions; except these have a far more devastating effect than employee health insurance. I guess you're against those as well.
Hope is the denial of reality
Foreign firms also have those things, so US firms are not put at a comparative disadvantage by them.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Depends on which countries we're talking about, particularly regarding pensions.
Hope is the denial of reality
My point is that Obama is being dishonest when it comes to people keeping their employee healthcare.
I don't see how it limits employee mobility or sticks them with expenses foreign companies don't have.
US companies can compete for talent with health care and deduct their health care costs. Meanwhile, companies that operate in markets with socialized medicine have to pay higher taxes to support those systems.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Job-lock related to insurance portability is probably a bigger problem/concern among those who have anything that can be classified as a "pre-existing condition" and esp. among those who are a little more replaceable. For the more fortunate, portability seems to be more of a short-term concern.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Isn't that what the high risk pools are for? I know Illinois has one.
Hope is the denial of reality
I know I've mentioned it before, my dad was turned down for jobs because his age would have fucked up the companies' insurance costs.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Did he sue for this obvious age discrimination?
Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita
No, I doubt it would have stuck, and I dont think it would have improved his outlook. When Sara Lee shut down distribution down here most of his higher ups were able to find positions in comparable companies and warehouses. It was only that 15-20 year relationship with them that allowed them to be so honest with him. A friendship that I doubt would have lasted through a lawsuit, a lawsuit that would have blacklisted him from even attempting to continue to find work in his field.
Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 10-24-2012 at 12:16 AM.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Certainly pensions should be independent of employers - like a more robust social security system with its employer independent portability. Not sure about union contracts - portability is not really a big issue with low skill labor.So do union contracts and pensions; except these have a far more devastating effect than employee health insurance. I guess you're against those as well.
As far as devastating effects are concerned, neither pensions nor union contracts are that way by nature. At my company the blame for the UAW contract rests firmly on management's shoulders - past management over a period of many years. It was easier to agree to more and more benefits, however crazy they were, rather than standing firm when times were really good. Then when things got bad then worse the latest management team had no ability to take back the lunacy their predecessors had agreed to and the UAW wasn't about to give it up easily. As for pensions, if regulations hadn't been relaxed so companies could gamble pension dollars in the stock market and under-fund them based on absurd projections of return, the pension systems would have been fine. And if companies couldn't offer older employees early retirements in lieu of layoffs to reduce their work force, a practice that effectively loots the pension system while letting companies get rid of employees at much lower severance cost, the pension systems would be much healthier too. Like with damn near everything in society its often how you use something, how you manage it, how you take care of it and maintain it that determines how effective or problematic it is. Abuse the pension system, roll over in contract negotiations, and you create a monster. Maybe not right away, but sooner or later.
Companies are probably at least fault for the health care costs. They can't have all that much control over the ever rising costs the way they did over the pension system management and the union contract negotiations.
Last edited by EyeKhan; 10-24-2012 at 12:31 AM.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
If you have a job with health care coverage, and you are married and you have children, the loss of that health care coverage is a big deal. You might move from one company with benefits to another, but you're not going to do anything risky like start a business. Nor will you take a leave of absence to work on an advanced degree or something. Maybe its more about limiting risk and innovation than portability?
Regarding the socialized medicine - it's more efficient than our fractured for profit health care and that cost is spread over a large base - an entire nation. Our health care system is just not cost competitive with socialist systems.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
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