If 50% of a population hold an extreme view do the mere numbers actually make that view non-extreme?Originally Posted by Loki
Does it really make sense to call ~50-60% of Americans extremists? Kind of dilutes the power of the term, no?
He's about as extreme a libertarian as you can get without advocating anarchy.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Yes. Extreme is subjective, not objective.
Socially very liberal.
Politically, probably around the centre, European centre that it is.
Economically, I'm fairly conservative nowadays, pretty right-wing European.
Also, "normal"!
~
I would consider my old uni friend that I keep in touch with, that I have referred to a couple of times in the General threads, as a fairly classic case of the extreme left, European-wise, in my view.
He's gone off and joined a community in the woodlands, building huts and living off the land, being entirely eco green, hugging trees daily etc. His facebook posts are mostly a barrage of fairly extreme anti-authority diatribes, anti-police, anti-banks, anti-US foreign policy etc.
Socially very liberal.
Politically, probably around the centre, European centre that it is.
Economically, I'm fairly conservative nowadays, pretty right-wing European.
Also, "normal"!
~
I would consider my old uni friend that I keep in touch with, that I have referred to a couple of times in the General threads, as a fairly classic case of the extreme left, European-wise, in my view.
He's gone off and joined a community in the woodlands, building huts and living off the land, being entirely eco green, hugging trees daily etc. His facebook posts are mostly a barrage of fairly extreme anti-authority diatribes, anti-police, anti-banks, anti-US foreign policy etc.
Remarkable he is able to post on Facebook while doing all that, or maybe my image of a woodland community building huts is all wrong.
I read a very funny comment about that somewhere. Someone said he finally understood that California was right to ban 'Gay Marriage', they were in clear violation of Leviticus because they hadn't arranged for the 'stoned' part before.About 60% of Californians just voted to fry 'em.
Congratulations America
Well, it's a good question with no answer I think. Extremism is relative, but what if the center takes over its ideas? Like with the nazi's.
Congratulations America
I asked him about that very point. He has access to a farmhouse which is 'nettable. Need somewhere to keep plugged in so they can start el révolucion.
Extremes are never good.
* If you have no money, you live in a worry as you can't make a living. If you have too much money, you live in constant fear of losing it or losing the value of your money, you may need a life as you have become a financial casino addict. Being rich is to have enough money not to worry about money. Not too much, not too little.
* Bailing out banks is often seen as right wing, where people see their property expropriated by banks, with or without a debt (i.e. robo-sign "mistakes"). In the extreme Spanish banking system, not only you lose your home, but also you keep half of the current debt. In the other extreme there is communism, that expropriates people's property at will, with or without reason, just like banks. However, under communism you lose your property but have no debt when you are homeless. In both, bancocracy and communist regimes, there is an elite of people living with extreme luxury, while the rest are having a struggle to survive.
Even if people have tried to blame religion as cause of extremism, as an excuse for abolishing religion, it should be noticed that there are non religious extremists. Politics also brings extremism, so in that case politics should be abolished.
The basic problem of extremism is that the system goes first, then human being welfare. So extremism is more like a bee hive, where everyone is but a brick on the wall. Anglosaxon cultura has lots of such hive extremism. Free market vs people in need after Sandy, bank bailouts vs bailing out americans... There are plenty of examples where anglosaxons pick the system and let people suffer.
Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.
That is most definitely not the case. An extreme punishment like torture or the death penalty will stay extreme, as in: The worst punishment available/possible. That's what it means: The end of the rope, no escalation possible. One could also argue that an extreme viewpoint is the one where no modicum of moderation is discernible.
Just like "no punishment for anything" would be the extreme opposite to this.
Just because the majority of the population slides around on the continuum between these two extremes doesn't make them any less extreme.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
So if 99.99% of the population believes the world is not flat is that an extremist belief because its an absolute?
If 60% of the population believe that serial killers should get the death penalty after a trial, 20% believe they should be incarcerated after a trial, while the remaining 20% believes that they should be summarily shot upon capture without a trial then within that population which is the moderate position and why?
Yeah, I'm an extremist.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
The extremism is in the lengths to which you'll go to deny science and uphold obstinate ignorance.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
If you think the death penalty is the worst punishment possible, you sorely lack in imagination.
Or knowledge of history.
"Like".
Y'know, example and all that stuff. My point still stands.
I fail to see how a majority cannot possess extremist views just because they're the majority. And if you have to believe that the world is not flat then that particular argument falls flat on its face.
And your example of the serial killer is easy: All of those are extremes. After all, they all punish the guy after a trial. Not after a conviction.
But to make the death penalty stuff more clear: It does not allow for moderation. You cannot half kill someone or kill him only a little bit. It's either-or. And that makes it extreme.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Hello
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
what
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Gee, thanks?
Yes, I've always been socially liberal, but consider that part of my Libertarian streak. "These days" I tend to be more supportive of certain government interventions, because of our situation. I was probably considered politically "liberal" to advocate for the auto industry rescue loans.....but I found that more important for the nation than bailing out reckless financial institutions in the Lehman aftermath.
Ditto after the BP oil mess (or hurricanes Katrina and Irene, for that matter) when it became apparent that corporate America hadn't done a good job at true risk management, or they used every one else's risks to their own advantage/profit. I was also pissed at our government for not protecting our national resources, coast lines, or People. The de-Regulation and laissez-faire attitudes of the Reagan era just don't work in today's modern world.
I like to think I'm a realist or pragmatist, with some populism thrown in. I believe the science of climate change, evolution, human behaviorism and cultural identity (including religion)....are competing forces that can't be met by Capitalism or Freee Markets alone. Government has an important role to play. If that makes me "very liberal" politically, then so be it.
QUESTIONThere are very few Extreme Leftists left in the US. Not sure if that means the "center" has moved, or what.: What do you have to support to be Extreme Left? Command economy, confiscation of private assets, worker's paradise? If that's the case, I don't know anyone Extreme Left politically in the US.
The first time I voted there was an option to vote for the Communist Party candidate (Angela Green?) and The Socialist Party or People's Republic had a candidate, too. It was too long ago, I can't remember the names, but they were very "left". Today's slate had more right-leaning candidates. Libertarian, Constitutional, Justice --- those were their party names. Even the Green Party candidate Jill Smith was more Libertarian/Conservative than left-wing SSSocialists.
Beyond the obvious torture, imprisonment, and then execution? How about arresting/killing family members? Deporting/killing your entire village?
Hope is the denial of reality
Loki, you can't keep treating Khen as the embodiment of Nazi Holocaust Germany just because he's German.
Why you'd even bring up the Nazi angle is beyond me. Stop accusing others of what only you are guilty of thinking...
Hope is the denial of reality
I know what you meant, but how does your definition work with things like that where one or both ends can extend off into infinity? If 'extreme' is defined as the end of the scale, does that mean no punishment can be defined as extreme, given the possibly infinite spectrum of human suffering? Or does it mean that any punishment a western government doles out is 'extreme' because it's so much closer to no punishment at all than the worst thing we can inflict upon them? If the death penalty is defined as extreme, then isn't that only because you're using Rand's definition to set threshholds, thus making your definition essentially the same?
I don't generally care to argue definitions too much. Usually I'm quite happy to let other people define them, and only inclined to bring them up to ensure that we're using the same definition. In this case, I think Rand's definition is more useful, only because it seems more well defined. It's still not very well defined, but one can at least get a rough feeling for where things lay.
Okay, then stop treating Khen differently simply because he's German. He's said nothing extraordinary or unusual.
pfft. Who's kidding whom?
I'm trying to work out if she actually believes I'm a voice inside her head or if she's not aware of any non-Nazi regime doing the things I mentioned...
FYI, I was thinking of Genghis Khan, Stalin, and Pinochet (though those acts are frequent enough that I'm not quite sure why there's any need to attribute them to any specific regime). Stop your Nazi/German obsession.
Hope is the denial of reality
I'll believe you when you start replying to Khen as if he was just any other American with German identity or cultural roots.
I think you're projecting.
The discussion turned towards things worse than death. Loki misread Khen's statement as asking for examples. Loki gave examples. How is that only happening because Khen is German? Is there some rule that giving examples is akin to an accusation of being a Nazi?
Just wanted to say hi to EyeKhan
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
As one of the only people in your list who you basically called an extremist, I must challenge you to point out how I am an extremist.
I was actually going to argue that a key component of extremism is devaluing the total worldview/worth of someone who disagrees with you in specific areas (or whose existence is somehow in the way of your agenda). I had some thoughts about what views might constitute left wing extremism, but...
This isn't meant to be some kind of "gotcha" trap, but if you explain why you think I'm an extremist I'll show you what I'm talking about.
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