Ventless Washer/Dryer Combos

[Dreadnaught]

Anyone use them? In general, I've always been wary of them. Especially because the dryers can be so crappy. But I've had a chance to use one pretty extensively for a bit and I'm beginning to come around -- I air-dry most of my clothes anyway, so having something in my apartment has some advantages. Especially because it would fill the space currently occupied by my dishwasher, which has been used about 10 times over several years.

That said, I'm still highly wary of spending the money. Anyone have any experience with them?

[Flixy]

I don't even have a dryer

[Loki]

Do Europeans even wash clothes?

[Flixy]

Well, I can't always have it drycleaned

[Wraith]

Well, I can't always have it drycleaned

"it"?

As in, you only have one article of clothing?

All the stereotypes were right. Europeans are filthy.

[Flixy]

I have German roots, embrace the FKK!

[RandBlade]

I've only ever had separate washer and dryer. Kind of need a dryer in the British winter .

Ours has a condenser unit you then empty down the drain - works well enough. If I was to turn back time I'd probably rather have got a combo - not just to save the space but also time: it'd be good to be able to set a load when you go to bed and have it dry in the morning, no need to switch over.

[Hazir]

I've only ever had separate washer and dryer. Kind of need a dryer in the British winter .

Ours has a condenser unit you then empty down the drain - works well enough. If I was to turn back time I'd probably rather have got a combo - not just to save the space but also time: it'd be good to be able to set a load when you go to bed and have it dry in the morning, no need to switch over.

A friend of mine has got one and he's a happy camper with his combo. It takes a lot less space in his appartment and it works real well. Only problem in his case is that the full capacity of the washer is double the full capacity of the dryer.

Ventless is the way to go by the way. If there is a drain in the room where you place it you don't even have to empty the water depot manually.

About your dish washer; I hope you don't think it's more economical to hand wash the dishes, because it isn't. I saw this in Istanbul where both my water bill and electricity bill dropped dramatically (think 50% off) after I had a dish washer installed.

[Loki]

I always find it odd how there are virtually no laundromats outside of NYC.

[Hazir]

I always find it odd how there are virtually no laundromats outside of NYC.

We still have them in Amsterdam So it may be an Amsterdam thing

[Loki]

Do you have lots of apartment buildings? I think that might be the reason in NYC.

[Hazir]

Do you have lots of apartment buildings? I think that might be the reason in NYC.

Yes, and lots of tiny houses that don't always have room for washers/dryers. 50m² is not considered excessively small overhere. Our 105m² is considered a generous sized flat in the center of the city.

There are even some bath houses in the city from times when inside plumbing was considered a luxury. Nowadays they're more used by homeless people and your's truly when the bathroom was being renovated. Sort of convenient, but I was quite pleased they would clean the cabins after every use.

[GGT]

If you line dry most your clothes, why not just replace the dishwasher with a front-load washing machine? There are lots of "apartment" sized units, and not too expensive either. Just make sure they install one of those water pans underneath it, and the shut off valve is handy, in case it springs a leak.

[Unheard Of]

That said, I'm still highly wary of spending the money. Anyone have any experience with them?

We've had three. We got rid of the first because we moved in to a better equipped apartment and didn't room for it. This was a shame as it was very well designed. The second was a low end model (we were short of ready funds having just bought a house). It broke after 4 years with a fault that is common on that brand's washing machines, not just washer-dryers (water heater stops working so the thermostat never hits the magic temperature and the wash cycle never starts). We've had our third for about 18 months and it has performed adequately so far. That said, we've got a baby now and we're doing so much washing that the only way to get everything dry is with a lot of airing racks and a dehumidifier to stop the house getting damp from condensation.

I looked at a UK consumer magazine (Which?) when we bought the third. They rated combined washer/dryers as much less reliable than separates, and less effective at drying. Some brands are better than others - Bosch and Miele were highly rated. If I had enough money for a Miele I'd have probably been able to afford a bigger house in the first place. We didn't have space for a Bosch, and ended up with a Hotpoint.

[Flixy]

I always find it odd how there are virtually no laundromats outside of NYC.

Don't know any around here, but I know plenty in Antwerp, and I think also in Ghent. Antwerp also has a lot of old small buildings, I suppose.

When my washing machine is broken I just do laundry at the neighbours

[Khendraja'aro]

About your dish washer; I hope you don't think it's more economical to hand wash the dishes, because it isn't. I saw this in Istanbul where both my water bill and electricity bill dropped dramatically (think 50% off) after I had a dish washer installed.

My father has this weird notion of absolutely having to rinse the plates before putting them into the dish washer. Which kind of defeats the purpose in my eyes.

I looked at a UK consumer magazine (Which?) when we bought the third. They rated combined washer/dryers as much less reliable than separates, and less effective at drying. Some brands are better than others - Bosch and Miele were highly rated. If I had enough money for a Miele I'd have probably been able to afford a bigger house in the first place. We didn't have space for a Bosch, and ended up with a Hotpoint.

What I'd love to have is a Miele washing machine with this automatic dosage function. No more using too much washing agent which in turn reduces water consumption.

Too bad that they're still hideously expensive - 1,000 € last time I looked.

[Flixy]

If it's very dirty you have to, no? I'm not very experienced with dishwashers though, never had one.

[Khendraja'aro]

If it's very dirty you have to, no? I'm not very experienced with dishwashers though, never had one.

That's why dish washers have different programs

Really efficient ones use as few as 12 liters of water. Try to do that when washing a full load of dishes manually!

[GGT]

...It broke after 4 years with a fault that is common on that brand's washing machines, not just washer-dryers (water heater stops working so the thermostat never hits the magic temperature and the wash cycle never starts)....

That's another feature to consider, just like dishwashers with internal food disposals or water heaters. I think most "ventless" types approved in the US connect to existing plumbing (the dishwasher) and use existing water heaters (connected to bathroom showers). That's why they're considered "ventless" -- and no new plumbing or roof venting for sewer gases is required.

I looked at a UK consumer magazine (Which?) when we bought the third. They rated combined washer/dryers as much less reliable than separates, and less effective at drying. Some brands are better than others - Bosch and Miele were highly rated. If I had enough money for a Miele I'd have probably been able to afford a bigger house in the first place. We didn't have space for a Bosch, and ended up with a Hotpoint.

Household appliances are kinda like media technology, or even automobiles. Their important innards are made by a few conglomerates, then sold down-scale as basic no-frills, or tweaked with more features as they go up-scale. What matters first are the internal machinery parts like the motor and drum, secondary are the components like plastic or stainless steel, third are types of plastic sealers. Front mount washers need a durable long-lasting water seal, not so much for top mount machines.

Not sure who owns what these days, but Hotpoint and Kenmore brands used to use White-Westinghouse parts...same as Maytag and KitchenAid.

[Hazir]

My father has this weird notion of absolutely having to rinse the plates before putting them into the dish washer. Which kind of defeats the purpose in my eyes.



What I'd love to have is a Miele washing machine with this automatic dosage function. No more using too much washing agent which in turn reduces water consumption.

Too bad that they're still hideously expensive - 1,000 € last time I looked.

Throwing a tantrum every time anybody does that (in Istanbul) has solved that problem. Nobody dares pre-rinsing down there any longer.

Miele; I think they're way too expensive for other house hold appliances, but the last 30 years we have had Miele washers and dryers. They are really the best. The first set we replaced after 20 years and only because we were moving and that way would avoid logistic problems if we'd need to replace after a couple of years. They came with a free vacuum cleaner, so that softened the financial blow a bit.

[Hazir]

If it's very dirty you have to, no? I'm not very experienced with dishwashers though, never had one.

No, you just wipe/scrape off big pieces, and leave the rest on. If anything rinsing reduces the effectiveness of the detergent.

[GGT]

There were several side-line adverts and 'articles' about laying low on dishwasher detergent recently. I never clicked to read them, but figured it was about phosphate detergents eating away at plastic lined dishwashers, or that no/low phosphate detergents weren't cleaning very well.

My Maytag dishwasher is at least 10 years old, and came with the house. The whole thing is plastic or vinyl (excepting the heating element or machinery innards). The bottom seal has been slowly disintegrating, while the performance of 'cycles' has diminished. We have to pre-rinse everything or it still comes out dirty. Adding more detergent would only hasten the disintegration of the rubber/plastic/vinyl seals.

[GGT]

That's why dish washers have different programs

Really efficient ones use as few as 12 liters of water. Try to do that when washing a full load of dishes manually!

Our "Energy Star" ratings are kinda complicated.

I can wash tons of dishes in a half gallon of super hot water (wearing gloves) with a good detergent (Dawn), and rinse them in one gallon of fresh water (with the right kind of pressure aerator in the faucet). Pricing depends on which is more expensive --- the water, the energy used to heat the water, or the electricity used to run the machine.

It matters more with washing machines cleaning blankets, towels or jeans, than dishwashers basically rinsing off food particles.

[Hazir]

There were several side-line adverts and 'articles' about laying low on dishwasher detergent recently. I never clicked to read them, but figured it was about phosphate detergents eating away at plastic lined dishwashers, or that no/low phosphate detergents weren't cleaning very well.

My Maytag dishwasher is at least 10 years old, and came with the house. The whole thing is plastic or vinyl (excepting the heating element or machinery innards). The bottom seal has been slowly disintegrating, while the performance of 'cycles' has diminished. We have to pre-rinse everything or it still comes out dirty. Adding more detergent would only hasten the disintegration of the rubber/plastic/vinyl seals.

i Don't understand how the dosage of detergent is an issue, you seriously have to try to get detergent in powder form. Overhere you buy them in tablet form and you use Always the right amount of detergent.

If you need to pre-rinse that simply means your dish washer is broken; pre-rinsing is not a solution for a broken dishwasher.

[Dreadnaught]

A friend of mine has got one and he's a happy camper with his combo. It takes a lot less space in his appartment and it works real well. Only problem in his case is that the full capacity of the washer is double the full capacity of the dryer.

Ventless is the way to go by the way. If there is a drain in the room where you place it you don't even have to empty the water depot manually.

About your dish washer; I hope you don't think it's more economical to hand wash the dishes, because it isn't. I saw this in Istanbul where both my water bill and electricity bill dropped dramatically (think 50% off) after I had a dish washer installed.

Ah, but I don't pay for my water and heat, while I do pay for electricity.

But wait, why can't the dryer condenser just drain into the washer drain?

If you line dry most your clothes, why not just replace the dishwasher with a front-load washing machine? There are lots of "apartment" sized units, and not too expensive either. Just make sure they install one of those water pans underneath it, and the shut off valve is handy, in case it springs a leak.

I do use the dryer for non-shirts and pants. But good call on shut-off valves. I would probably get a water-hammer reducer as well.

We've had three. We got rid of the first because we moved in to a better equipped apartment and didn't room for it. This was a shame as it was very well designed. The second was a low end model (we were short of ready funds having just bought a house). It broke after 4 years with a fault that is common on that brand's washing machines, not just washer-dryers (water heater stops working so the thermostat never hits the magic temperature and the wash cycle never starts). We've had our third for about 18 months and it has performed adequately so far. That said, we've got a baby now and we're doing so much washing that the only way to get everything dry is with a lot of airing racks and a dehumidifier to stop the house getting damp from condensation.

I looked at a UK consumer magazine (Which?) when we bought the third. They rated combined washer/dryers as much less reliable than separates, and less effective at drying. Some brands are better than others - Bosch and Miele were highly rated. If I had enough money for a Miele I'd have probably been able to afford a bigger house in the first place. We didn't have space for a Bosch, and ended up with a Hotpoint.

Indeed, it is a lot of complexity added to a machine. What was the brand you were happy with at first? LG seems to have good reviews, which surprised me.

[Hazir]

Where did I say the drain should be separate?

[Dreadnaught]

Well you said the ideal location is a room with a drain. I'm just not sure I've ever heard of a room with water supply that didn't have a drain, so wanted to clarify what you meant.

[Hazir]

Mentioning a drain for the dryer part was a bit superfluous. By the way, that whole waterlock bla bla; I don't know what washing machines cause that kind of problems, but in the 30 years I have had washing machines I never had any situation with them Guess it's a matter of buying the right quality.

Shame on you by the way for wasting hot water for no other reason that you don't get a separate bill for it.

[Dreadnaught]

My building has a centralized water heating plant that produces hot water for a lot of people at once. We get substantial efficiencies of scale given, especially versus having a separate water heater in each apartment or having a dishwasher use electricity to heat-up cold water into steam.

You do realize that none of us has any real metrics for our respective situations and could argue this forever?

I also always had to do dishes as a chore; the dishwasher feels like a cop-out. I look forward to passing the chore in the future.

[Khendraja'aro]

I'm not entirely sure that heating water is one of those things which have an efficiency of scale. Using electrical energy to heat water is pretty efficient at any size. It's the other way (read: converting heat into electrical power) which poses the problems.