Which is why it's pretty inefficient, since you have to create the energy firstOriginally Posted by Khendraja'aro
I'm also not too sure about economy of scale, IIRC modern boilers are very efficient already anyway.
Which is why it's pretty inefficient, since you have to create the energy first
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Ah, but we use hydrocarbon fuels to heat our water (not electricity). And we use the same system to heat steam for our heating system. Though I should go hunting for some metrics...
No you don't. I've learned now that doing dishes may carry lessons for kids, but making life easier for parents is not one of them.
The time you save from no longer washing dishes you will spend on cleaning up after them. The spillage, the poorly washed items, the wasted time as they stand in front of the sink day dreaming...
You have spent a lifetime perfecting your method of doing dishes, passing it on will be a chore in and of itself, a years long chore.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
And? Do you think that those hydrocarbons appear in your house by magic? Or that burning gas/oil is somehow more efficient?
(Protip: It isn't)
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
It is more efficient than burning them for heat, which heats water, which generates electricity at a poor rate (IIRC power plant efficiencies are 30-50%), which then generates water.
Or do you think that electricity appears in your house by magic? Or that skipping a few step in the process is somehow not more efficient?
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Can't you just feel the rage of Khend just bleeding into an irrational rant?
But yes, Flixy is right that burning petroleum to heat the water/radiators in the building is more efficient than burning coal/gas/oil (depends) to heat water to generate electricity to be transmitted to a building to then heat water/radiators. I'm not sure it's dramatically more efficient, but probably more efficient nonetheless.
We have more sources of electricity than mere burning of hydrocarbons.It is more efficient than burning them for heat, which heats water, which generates electricity at a poor rate (IIRC power plant efficiencies are 30-50%), which then generates water.
Or do you think that electricity appears in your house by magic? Or that skipping a few step in the process is somehow not more efficient?
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Dread's building apparently uses heating oil (literally filling big tanks in the basement 'boiler room') and a centralized water heater system. Then each apartment gets hot water/steam to its radiators and faucets, using just pipes. It's a nice type of moist heat, and doesn't need complicated vents and return-air ductwork. Pretty typical in older buildings. That's why he's asking about ventless machines, and needs to consider any type of leak that could dump gallons of water into the apartment below. Dishwashers don't hold water like a washing machine tub does....
Anyway, there's an apartment-sized dual W/D -- not two stacked units, but one machine that washes and then tumble dries. I found it years ago when looking for something to fit into a closet that backed up to a bathroom with access to faucet and sink/toilet drain. No venting required. I think it was a Miele but can't remember.
It's a big portion though!
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
I know for a fact that Miele has been selling them for years, but I think brands like Samsung and LG are carrying them too.Dread's building apparently uses heating oil (literally filling big tanks in the basement 'boiler room') and a centralized water heater system. Then each apartment gets hot water/steam to its radiators and faucets, using just pipes. It's a nice type of moist heat, and doesn't need complicated vents and return-air ductwork. Pretty typical in older buildings. That's why he's asking about ventless machines, and needs to consider any type of leak that could dump gallons of water into the apartment below. Dishwashers don't hold water like a washing machine tub does....
Anyway, there's an apartment-sized dual W/D -- not two stacked units, but one machine that washes and then tumble dries. I found it years ago when looking for something to fit into a closet that backed up to a bathroom with access to faucet and sink/toilet drain. No venting required. I think it was a Miele but can't remember.
Congratulations America
I didn't specify the type of hydrocarbon.Dread's building apparently uses heating oil (literally filling big tanks in the basement 'boiler room') and a centralized water heater system. Then each apartment gets hot water/steam to its radiators and faucets, using just pipes. It's a nice type of moist heat, and doesn't need complicated vents and return-air ductwork. Pretty typical in older buildings. That's why he's asking about ventless machines, and needs to consider any type of leak that could dump gallons of water into the apartment below. Dishwashers don't hold water like a washing machine tub does....
Anyway, there's an apartment-sized dual W/D -- not two stacked units, but one machine that washes and then tumble dries. I found it years ago when looking for something to fit into a closet that backed up to a bathroom with access to faucet and sink/toilet drain. No venting required. I think it was a Miele but can't remember.Though the ventless is actually not for the reason you suspect. But I am indeed talking about an all-in-one unit.
Did you like it? Miele is a pretty good brand, though not sure it works the price range.
Correct -- the LGs seem to have a substantial price difference with good ratings, but I'm suspicious.
Why? LG is building decent appliances. I owned an LG microwave combination which was VERY easy to use and good at a very reasonable price. The only reason I'm not using it any longer is that we got everything built in in the new kitchen. I would still prefer Miele for washing and/or drying but wouldn't feel too hesitant about buying LG if Miele would be unaffordable.
Congratulations America
I've actually had no experience with their appliances. Though I hear their phones are kinda shit.
Damn, I wish these Asian conglomerates would stick to building just a few things. One brand failure makes it hard to judge the products made in a totally unrelated division.
Their phones are not 'kinda shit', their phones are not cutting edge technology, there is a difference between the two. Their TV's are amongst the best.
Congratulations America
Hazir, you don't seem to understand that our US experience with appliances and manufacturers isn't like European's experience. It's taken over a decade for Fisher-Paykel products to become "mainstream" here, and sold at Sears or Lowe's or Home Depot. Same for LG or Dyson. Americans are still fairly entrenched in name brands, wary of unfamiliar or new brands, or trusting brand names that cross product lines. Samsung is a trusted brand name for televisions, but not necessarily refrigerators.
I did a quick search. Maybe it wasn't Miele but Haier.
http://www.nextag.com/Haier-Cu-Ft-Ve...61830EC7A970F0
Dyson's made it over there?
I don't see why you would buy an appliance for no other reason than that it's manufacturer has built appliances forever. On the other hand, Americans kept buying American cars when those were certifiably the worst in the world except the Trabant.
Congratulations America
The auto industry isn't quite like the home appliance industry. It's similar in some ways....like readily available replacement parts, and repair/service people knowledgable on imports. Plus the price comparisons, and when things go from average to high end.
I was only explaining the typical US experience for buying things like washers or fridges. Not too long ago, folks took their appliances with them when selling a home, or negotiated to keep them. Standard cut-out sizes in attached cabinetry for free-standing ranges, dishwashers, fridges. Integrated or built-ins didn't become the "norm" until our housing boom, and house porn like HGTV. That's when homeowners wanted "professional grade" appliances like 6 burner Viking ranges, or a Sub Zero style fridge, but didn't want to pay $6,000 for an appliance.
The US industry was quick to make a new niche for renovators and new homes, bridging the gaps. Besides putting stainless steel on just about everythingplaces like Sears and Lowe's negotiated agreements with Bosch and Fisher-Paykel et al, either as "approved" distributors or showroom dealers. They also had to honor warranties and have service/repair people who could work on them. Without telling folks it'd take 9-12 weeks to get replacement parts.
We can buy an AGA or La Cornue range, but it's still considered very high-end....because it's either imported, has to be purchased wholesale without warranty, or comes through a high-end distributor offering sales AND service. The manufacturers like it that way---it maintains their "brand" reputation as high-end, exclusive and expensive.
We're talking not about premium appliances but good quality appliances at attractive prices. None of the nonsense of demanding professional grade appliances for kitchens that are barely used to brew coffee.
Congratulations America
Well I do that too. But only very little. Just to get the food off. I don't like the smell of food from the washer and we don't use enough plates to let it run every day.
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
If you run it every second day you don't get smells and you still save energy and water.
Congratulations America
Look Hazir, I'm only trying to explain the US shopping experience. You didn't understand why American brand-loyalty is related to manufacturers, availability or price.
Miele is still considered a premium brand with high-end prices, and isn't available in average places (Sears, Lowe's, Best Buy). It took over a decade for Bosch, LG and Fisher-Paykel to get into those markets, and they're still more expensive than our domestic name brands.
OK, then I don't understand the US appliance market. For reasons that seem to have to do more than anything else than that it doesn't function like a normal market. That doesn't make the idea that you shouldn't buy a perfectly good washer-dryer just because its brand name is also stuck on rather generic phones sensible.
Congratulations America
Dread and I have been trying to explain the US market to you. Miele is out of his price range, and LG isn't well known in the appliance division yet. That's why there's a 'suspicion' even though they get decent ratings.
Not sure how the European market works, but would you buy a washing machine from Nokia (if their name was on one)?
Yes, if they got good reviews and were attractively priced (working from the premise Miele would be out of my price range).
I bought my first Samsung Phone long before Samsung was a leading brand; and found out that my Phone could even survive a full washing cycle in my Miele.
Congratulations America
As with here, I'm not even 100% sure what is being disagreed-on.
It's been a while, but I think it was a Zanussi.
There's a man goin' 'round, takin' names
And he decides who to free and who to blame
Bought a Beko condensing tumble dryer last month. Cost £230, and is a B rating.
Our washing machine is a combo, and the dryer on it is AWFUL. Pair of jeans take 2 hours in the combo and is still wet, a whole load in the dryer takes less than an hour and is bone dry. Wife is happy because she can do multiple loads at once, and I'm happy because she's spending less time stressing about stupid things like washing and is spending less on electricity.
How do you expect to run with the wolves at night when you spend all day sparring with the puppies?
- Omar Little
^^I've heard things like that. Though I wouldn't even put jeans in there, wouldn't they shrink after hours of condenser-generated heat?
After some measuring and number crunching, I decided to not pursue the whole thing. The measurements suggested it would fit fine, but with the need for cutting a half-inch notch under my counter. Which would be a bit of a hassle, but doable.
The real problem was the numbers. A lot of my laundry "stress" is because I obsessively try to fit everything into one load at the end of each week so that I don't have to go back and forth. Which is fine, but if for some reason I have to miss a day or two I rapidly run out of the clothing "basics" of jeans, socks etc (I really don't like owning a lot of stuff).
That said, getting a ventless combo unit in my apartment would have an upfront cost of 11-15 years of laundry. That doesn't include the electricity costs. When you look at the numbers like that, I could just bite the bullet and buy a few more clothing items, do laundry at irregular intervals and probably be just as happy.
I can't say I fully understand your problem, but jeans would not shrink significantly in a dryer. I'd worry more about sweaters and the likes. Wear also isn't a real big problem. 'We've got towels that went through almost 30 years of washing and drying and only recently have started fraying at the fringes.
Congratulations America
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
