PRISM -- NSA Monitoring Web Services We All Use?

[GGT]

Getting into the weeds a bit...but technically many US Postal workers aren't gov't employees, but contract workers (like Snowden). USPS can copy/track any mail that's requested by authorities, with no requirement to notify the trackee. But a warrant is required to actually open mail (excluding prison inmates).

E-mail or other activity can be gotten from ISPs and IT companies (Google, Facebook, cell phone providers) without a warrant. Gathering that meta-data is being defined like "mail cover", and only needs a warrant to open and read the contents. What makes it so creepy is that it's probably all legal....and in the fine print and TOS people rarely read but readily Accept. Consumers tend to think sharing info with a "third party" means marketers, not a private company contracted by NSA.

The other thing that's creepy is those warrants are granted by secretive FISA courts, with congressional approval, but only reviewed by "special committees". The American public doesn't really know how those FISA judges are chosen, their criteria, or if they simply rubber-stamp any warrant request. And there's not a lot of trust in "special committees" after seeing flat earth members on Science and Technology....

[Ominous Gamer]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/4...fourth-rallies

[Veldan Rath]

Can I attach a restore the 10th and repeal the 17th to that

[GGT]

No one's going to comment on secret FISA courts or their judges appointed by SCOTUS?

[earthJoker]

No one's going to comment on secret FISA courts or their judges appointed by SCOTUS?

I read about it. I already said that I distrust the government to correctly control itself if the controlling is done behind closed doors. The revealings about the FISA just confirm my distrust.

[Dreadnaught]

I'm beginning to think Snowden is basically the Troll of the Year.

[Ominous Gamer]

With all these revelations, defcon organizers have asked the feds to sit out this years event; must be some serious mistrust there considering defcon has always been neutral grounds for both sides to socialize, share and poach talent.

[Aimless]

http://www.businessinsider.com/gover...on-keys-2013-7

Tsk, tsk

[Khendraja'aro]

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...earches/67864/

[RandBlade]

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...earches/67864/

A man searches for "pressure cooker bombs" at work, work reports the suspicious activity, it gets investigated.

Not seeing any fault here by anyone other than the idiot who thought that was a good idea while at work.

[Loki]

Now Snowden is whining about the US breaking the law by trying to capture him. Pot kettle black.

[RandBlade]

Yeah surely Snowden knew when he leaked that the US was breaking its own laws, that they'd risk breaking it again to get him?

[Loki]

Apparently you're only breaking the law if you do something he doesn't approve of.

[Dreadnaught]

Khend posted that before the update on the article was appended. He didn't see that it turned out the story was wildly misunderstood-

The Suffolk County Police Department released a statement this evening that answers the great mystery of the day.

Suffolk County Criminal Intelligence Detectives received a tip from a Bay Shore based computer company regarding suspicious computer searches conducted by a recently released employee. The former employee’s computer searches took place on this employee’s workplace computer. On that computer, the employee searched the terms “pressure cooker bombs” and “backpacks.”

After interviewing the company representatives, Suffolk County Police Detectives visited the subject’s home to ask about the suspicious internet searches. The incident was investigated by Suffolk County Police Department’s Criminal Intelligence Detectives and was determined to be non-criminal in nature.

Looks like a very different case from the initial rumor.

[Khendraja'aro]

A man searches for "pressure cooker bombs" at work, work reports the suspicious activity, it gets investigated.

Not seeing any fault here by anyone other than the idiot who thought that was a good idea while at work.

Yes, because real terrorists will be so clever as to actually search for such things without using TOR and the like.

You know that there's a thing called "false positives" and if you are too sensitive (like in this case) you'll absolutely drown in them?

[RandBlade]

Yes, because real terrorists will be so clever as to actually search for such things without using TOR and the like.

You know that there's a thing called "false positives" and if you are too sensitive (like in this case) you'll absolutely drown in them?

So they have a quick conversation and then leave with an attitude of "nothing wrong here". Oh the horror.

[Ominous Gamer]

Looks like the only group that screwed up here is the company that reported their own employee. Its not illegal (or anyone's concern) how curious the public can get, especially around recent events. But once a report is filed, the authorities have to follow up. The public is really really stupid, and the police, feds, code enforcement, never get the full picture, so they have to go out and figure out whats really going on. You wouldn't believe the kind of bullshit I have to report from people trying to get their neighbors in trouble.

[Khendraja'aro]

So they have a quick conversation and then leave with an attitude of "nothing wrong here". Oh the horror.

So, you actually think nothing problematic of having hundreds of such visits per month to citizens' homes who have done nothing wrong? Doesn't strike you a bit Orwellian?

I mean, this is the government telling you: "Yeah, we're watching your every move!"

[GGT]

You wouldn't believe the kind of bullshit I have to report from people trying to get their neighbors in trouble.

That's creepy. I can understand how public libraries (using tax dollars) might justify some kind of National Security threat/alert mechanism. But why should it fall to the Librarian?

[Ominous Gamer]

money.

my library system enjoys a rather nice tax bracket, something most other county agencies don't have. Yet we're part of the county. So while we don't suffer to greatly from extreme amounts of mismanagement, the county administrator sees us as a empty hole for which he can throw county services that he doesn't want to or cant afford to fund.

Within the last 7 years, without raises, the libraries in my county have been tasked with taking in code enforcement complaints, being the intake line for all county departments (including shit like the suicide line), and they are also looking to have us take in permitting.

[Veldan Rath]

Sounds like you have a jerk of an admin

[RandBlade]

Looks like the only group that screwed up here is the company that reported their own employee. Its not illegal (or anyone's concern) how curious the public can get, especially around recent events. But once a report is filed, the authorities have to follow up. The public is really really stupid, and the police, feds, code enforcement, never get the full picture, so they have to go out and figure out whats really going on. You wouldn't believe the kind of bullshit I have to report from people trying to get their neighbors in trouble.

If the company feels they have a reason to be concerned is it that unreasonable to put a tip in? Are they discouraged from doing so? Is it better for them to do nothing and then treat the guy awkwardly because they're suspicious of him and "monitor" him for further suspicious activity - or fire him for it (you do have "at will employment" right) as its a hassle they don't want - or just to raise a concern, get it dealt with and a line be drawn in the sand?

Besides can you imagine the stick they'd get if the guy did turn out to be a terrorist and it leaked that they knew he'd been searching for bombs at the company and they'd ignored it?

So, you actually think nothing problematic of having hundreds of such visits per month to citizens' homes who have done nothing wrong? Doesn't strike you a bit Orwellian?

I mean, this is the government telling you: "Yeah, we're watching your every move!"

If it was from NSA monitoring as was implied - yes.
If those visits cause major harassment or are from ethnic or other dubious profiling - yes.
If its from people reporting what they reasonably think is genuinely suspicious activity - no.

money.

my library system enjoys a rather nice tax bracket, something most other county agencies don't have. Yet we're part of the county. So while we don't suffer to greatly from extreme amounts of mismanagement, the county administrator sees us as a empty hole for which he can throw county services that he doesn't want to or cant afford to fund.

Within the last 7 years, without raises, the libraries in my county have been tasked with taking in code enforcement complaints, being the intake line for all county departments (including shit like the suicide line), and they are also looking to have us take in permitting.

On the one hand it sucks, on the other hand its better in this environment to have others responsibilities be given to you - rather than your responsibilities be given to someone else and get shut down.

Besides as I've said before, I suspect libraries of the future will either diversify their interests (as yours is) or close (as others are). At least by making yourself more useful the probability of closing is slashed.

[GGT]

money.

my library system enjoys a rather nice tax bracket, something most other county agencies don't have. Yet we're part of the county. So while we don't suffer to greatly from extreme amounts of mismanagement, the county administrator sees us as a empty hole for which he can throw county services that he doesn't want to or cant afford to fund.

Within the last 7 years, without raises, the libraries in my county have been tasked with taking in code enforcement complaints, being the intake line for all county departments (including shit like the suicide line), and they are also looking to have us take in permitting.

In other words, Florida is fairly fucked up?

[Ominous Gamer]

most of the state is yes. a lot of my county operates as best it can, but some of the recent decisions are either there to save the most money no matter what, or to screw over the library because future raises will be based on department performance. The library has, for decades, blown the other departments out of the fucking water when it comes to customer satisfaction. Starting next week we will begin answering all animal control calls. The 2 day training for something this extreme consisted of "go shadow them, but be careful, they know you are taking their jobs and might be hostile to you". The decision to move animal control over the library was done when both the animal control director and the library director were on vacation. And yeah, they had zero people skills over there.

-----------------------

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...cy-violations/
Newly published leaks show NSA’s thousands of privacy violations
Screw-ups big and small lead to citizens' info getting sucked into NSA databases.

[RandBlade]

That's what I was saying - at least you're the one having the responsibilities transferred TO and not FROM. It could be worse.

[Ominous Gamer]

FROM wouldn't effect us at all. staffing hasn't changed since the absorption of the phone duties. our library duties have simply suffered. One reason why the main library isn't part of the maker space, genius bar, or open teaching objectives that the regionals are moving forward with. the main library doesn't have the staff to support the library expansions.

Its causing problems with turnover too, add in the extra stress from the unrelated duties and people have been dropping like flies. There had been at least one vacant spot in the main library for 3 years now. Even I'm ditching at the end of the month, and that leaves a huge hole in their web department.

[GGT]

Using the Terrorism Act to detain the partner of a Guardian reporter who wrote about US and UK security services was "legally and procedurally sound", Scotland Yard has said....

He was detained under schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act 2000. This allows police to hold someone at an airport, port or international rail station for up to nine hours for questioning about whether they have been involved with acts of terrorism....

Scotland Yard, which has not revealed on what grounds he was detained, said in a statement on Monday night that the "examination" of Mr Miranda was "subject to a detailed decision-making process"....

"They took my computer, my video games, my mobile phone and memory cards - everything."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23763625

[Ominous Gamer]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...stroyed-london

destroying physical property to destroy digital file copies. straight up intimidation.

[GGT]

Maybe someone familiar with UK power structures and legislation can explain who's in charge of their oversight, or how it works there?

I don't really know how different branches or agencies interact, between PM/Parliament/Scotland Yard/MI6, etc. I don't know much about British laws surrounding "Freedom of the Press", either. (All the Rupert Murdoch fiascos and conflicts-of-interest are fairly complicated and confounding.)

Is there an equivalent to US "special" congressional committees that are briefed on classified documents/programs, or something comparable to our secret FISA courts (whose judges are appointed by SCOTUS Chief Justice) approving warrants for any agency, under the auspice of National Security?

And what's the British equivalent to US "Freedom of Information" laws, aka sunshine laws, meant to inform the public about what their government is doing?


Edit---how did the UK manage to install "surveillance cameras" practically everywhere, while convincing the British public it was for "their own good"?

[katsung47]

Snowden: NSA targeted journalists critical of government after 9/11

By Jonathan Easley - 08/13/13
Leaker Edward Snowden accused the NationalSecurity Agency of targeting reporters who wrote critically about thegovernment after the 9/11 attacks and warned it was “unforgivably reckless” forjournalists to use unencrypted email messages when discussing sensitivematters.

Snowden said in an interview with the New YorkTimes Magazine published Tuesday that he came to trust Laura Poitras, thedocumentary filmmaker who, along with Guardian reporter Glenn Greenwald, helpedreport his disclosure of secret surveillance programs, because she herself hadbeen targeted by the NSA.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...#ixzz2cGWW8MQY