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Thread: House Democrats ban earmark spending for profit-based companies

  1. #1

    Default House Democrats ban earmark spending for profit-based companies

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/us...armark.html?hp

    WASHINGTON — House Democratic leaders said on Wednesday that they would no longer dole out budget “earmarks” to profit-making companies, wiping out one of the most lucrative and controversial means of awarding no-bid contracts to private firms.

    The ban is the most aggressive step yet in a three-year effort in Congress to curb abuses in the awarding of earmarks, which direct that federal money be spent in a very specific way. The move follows criminal investigations, ethics inquiries and political embarassment linked to the use of earmarks.

    If the ban had been in effect last year, it would have blocked some 1,000 earmarks, many of them for military contractors that received multi-million-dollar contracts, leaders of the House Appropriations Committee said in announcing the decision.

    The move came less than two weeks after the House ethics committee cleared seven members of a defense appropriations subcommittee of allegations growing out of their awarding of earmarks to political contributors.

    The earlier decision to clear the lawmakers drew sharp criticism from government watchdog groups, who said it would open the door to further abuse. The ban announced Wednesday appeared to be an effort by House Democrats to regain the high ground after a series of allegations against their own members. Republican leaders are considering how and whether to follow suit.

    Since retaking control of Congress in 2007, the Democrats have taken a series of steps, including disclosing publicly which lawmakers requested each earmark, in an attempt to eliminate abuses. While outside critics of the earmark process have dismissed some of those steps as cosmetic, the ban on earmarks for profit-making companies announced on Wednesday drew quick praise.

    “I think it’s a pretty big deal,” Scott Lilly, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, the liberal research group, said in an interview.

    “That was always the most questionable and problematic aspect of the whole process,” he said, referring to the practice of directing awards to private contractors. Earmarks for universities, research organizations and other non-profit groups would still be allowed under the new restrictions.

    Stephen Ellis, vice president of Taxpayers for Common Sense, a a budget watchdog group that has also been critical of the earmark process, said that “for-profit earmarks are ground zero for pay-to-play, and it makes sense to rein them in.” But he added that the Senate leadership would have to adopt its own similar ban for the restrictions to be effective.

    Senator Daniel Inouye, the Hawaii Democrat who leads the Senate Appropriations Committee, showed little inclination to follow the House’s lead. Mr. Inouye said that current restrictions on earmarks, including the disclosure requirements, “have erased the impropriety” of past years.

    He said that it did not make sense to discriminate against profit-making organizations. “I am not sure why we should treat for-profit earmarks any differently than nonprofit earmarks,” Mr. Inouye said.
    I think I like the idea, but since it's from the House Democrats, I have a sneaking suspicion not everyone will agree with me there. Decreasing corporate influence in the government is a worthy goal in my opinion.
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  2. #2
    How long until the large corporations set up non-profit wings to get that same money? These people are career politicians. They're not so stupid as to not realize that if they allow major loopholes, groups will find a way around the law.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    How long until the large corporations set up non-profit wings to get that same money?
    Not long. Blink.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    How long until the large corporations set up non-profit wings to get that same money? These people are career politicians. They're not so stupid as to not realize that if they allow major loopholes, groups will find a way around the law.
    Of course, but what is the alternative? Nothing? Is it not the first step in the right direction? Loopholes can be closed. Links to organisations can be proven.

    I can understand your scepticism, but you have to start somewhere.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    Of course, but what is the alternative? Nothing? Is it not the first step in the right direction? Loopholes can be closed. Links to organisations can be proven.
    I agree with you. Baby steps. It's certainly not acceptable to throw your hands up and declare "this can't be fixed so I'm not trying."

    I can understand your scepticism, but you have to start somewhere.
    Don't you think a 'k' looks better in that word?
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    Of course, but what is the alternative? Nothing? Is it not the first step in the right direction? Loopholes can be closed. Links to organisations can be proven.

    I can understand your scepticism, but you have to start somewhere.
    Get rid of all earmarks, period. If some organization needs money, Congress as a whole should debate and vote on it.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Get rid of all earmarks, period. If some organization needs money, Congress as a whole should debate and vote on it.
    Do you think anything good could be lost by that?
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    Do you think anything good could be lost by that?
    It will take longer for the organizations to get their money. But I think that's a reasonable compromise when it allows us to have transparency.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    It will take longer for the organizations to get their money. But I think that's a reasonable compromise when it allows us to have transparency.
    I'd think there would be a lot of funding that would never happen at all if it had to get approval by the wider congress. And not necessarily just bridges to nowhere. Some stuff is just too small to warrant the attention of all of congress. Its like needing a VP to approve my request for legal pads or something. If you had to do that, you just would do without. But I need my legal pads.
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  10. #10
    Why should the federal government pay for it? Let the state governments tax and spend the money they want for state specific stuff.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    I'd think there would be a lot of funding that would never happen at all if it had to get approval by the wider congress. And not necessarily just bridges to nowhere. Some stuff is just too small to warrant the attention of all of congress. Its like needing a VP to approve my request for legal pads or something. If you had to do that, you just would do without. But I need my legal pads.
    Then if it is small, I'm betting it is at a local level... so let the local governments handle it. Problem solved.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImAnOgre View Post
    Then if it is small, I'm betting it is at a local level... so let the local governments handle it. Problem solved.
    What and have the Fed and the Tards there lose power?






  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Why should the federal government pay for it? Let the state governments tax and spend the money they want for state specific stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by ImAnOgre View Post
    Then if it is small, I'm betting it is at a local level... so let the local governments handle it. Problem solved.
    I'm sure most of it is local. It's your representative working for the community, bringing home the jobs, the infrastructure improvements, whatever. A lot of people appreciate this kind of thing.

    One of my favorites was the three million dollar overhead projector that McCain railed about in the campaign. Yeah, it was an overhead projector - for a planetarium ffs. Talk about dishonesty - that kind of game playing loses my vote immediately. The projector was replacing an old one at some famous planetarium - was that in Chicago? - can't remember. For a science institution, a university, a city or even a state, that's a tough bullet to bite. So if you think planetariums are valuable, then maybe it is something the federal government can help out with. Or maybe you don't and maybe it's not. Maybe the answer is 'no we can't afford something like that.' (iirc they never got the funding anyway...) But at least be honest about it instead of giving everyone the impression there's some kind of scandal going on.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/us...armark.html?hp

    I think I like the idea, but since it's from the House Democrats, I have a sneaking suspicion not everyone will agree with me there. Decreasing corporate influence in the government is a worthy goal in my opinion.
    I have no problem with the idea per se, but I don't think it's going to actually stop what's been going on.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    Of course, but what is the alternative? Nothing? Is it not the first step in the right direction? Loopholes can be closed. Links to organisations can be proven.

    I can understand your scepticism, but you have to start somewhere.
    Libruls Obama Communists Pork etc.

  16. #16
    The beat goes on ...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/us...2lobby.html?hp

    WASHINGTON — Jolted by a sudden tightening of the rules, lobbyists and military contractors who have long relied on lucrative earmarks from Congress were scrambling Thursday to find new ways to keep the federal money flowing.

    “The playing field has changed dramatically,” said Michael H. Herson, a lobbyist in Washington whose firm, American Defense International, represents numerous defense industry contractors who have already put in their requests this year for earmark money.

    Those clients, who along with hundreds of other businesses got $1.7 billion last year through the controversial practice of awarding earmarks, will now be barred from receiving money under a new policy adopted Wednesday by Democrats on the House Appropriations Committee.

    House Republicans, seeking to outdo the Democrats in ethics reform, went even further Thursday by agreeing to swear off all earmarks, for both nonprofit and commercial organizations, for the next year.

    “This is the best day we’ve had in a while,” said Representative Jeff Flake, an Arizona Republican who has been a fierce opponent of earmarks — no-bid contracts directed by lawmakers — but had found little support among Republican colleagues before this week. “In terms of us getting this moratorium, the stars were aligned. What the Democrats did certainly motivated the Republicans.

    Senate leaders, however, have not rushed to follow the House, a situation that would set up a clash when the two chambers try to reconcile their spending bills.

    No one was willing to predict on Thursday how that confrontation might play out. Meanwhile, defense contractors and the “K Street” lobbyists in Washington who often represent them were planning new ways of packaging their financing requests — and trying to keep the revenue coming in.

    Some firms talked of partnering with hospitals, universities and other nonprofit organizations in seeking federal money, an idea that Congressional officials said might not be allowed under the new rules. Others said they planned to become more aggressive about applying directly to the Pentagon and other federal departments and agencies, and not Congress, for grant money. Still others are warning their clients to diversify their financing sources and become less reliant on Washington.

    “For firms that have made their living on getting earmarks for their clients, this is a sea change,”
    said Joseph M. Donovan, managing partner at Nelson Mullins Public Strategies Group, a Boston lobbying firm that represents about 50 private and public clients. “It fundamentally changes their business model.”

    Mr. Donovan said his company had anticipated a sharp cutback in earmarks because of the political mood in Washington and began taking steps to help clients navigate the new landscape. That includes hiring an in-house writer to help them apply for federal grants directly from executive branch agencies instead of Congress.

    Because that grant money is usually awarded based on competitive bids, he said it would be harder for smaller companies with promising research-and-development ideas. Contractors will have to be “more strategic” in their thinking, he said, “because I don’t want to be in the position of telling them that things are being done through a wink and nod and you’re just going to get a million dollars.”

    In the Senate, some lawmakers have defended earmarks as a necessary tool for Congress to exercise the power of the purse and influence federal spending. Supporters say that for every “Bridge to Nowhere,” the Alaska earmark project that became infamous five years ago, there are worthy projects that get less attention.

    As one example, supporters pointed to the earmarking of tens of millions of dollars in the 1990s to General Atomics and other military contractors for early development of what became the Predator program, the unmanned drones now used frequently in airstrikes in Afghanistan. Senator Daniel K. Inouye, the Hawaii Democrat who leads the Senate Appropriations Committee, said that if the House ban on commercial earmarks had been in effect then, “we would not have the Predator today.”

    Limiting earmarks to nonprofit recipients is not necessarily a cure-all. For example, Representative John P. Murtha, the Pennsylvania Democrat famous for his earmarking largess, set up the Concurrent Technologies Corporation in his district in the 1980s as a nonprofit research center for metalworking, and he helped guide more than $1 billion in defense earmarks to it before he died last month.

    Executives at Concurrent contributed frequently to Mr. Murtha’s campaigns. The group has come under scrutiny by F.B.I. investigators looking into pay-to-play allegations against the now-defunct lobbying firm P.M.A., which represented Concurrent and other clients that got earmarks.

    Whether earmark money will dry up completely was a matter of sharp debate Thursday. While Democrats and Republicans alike were trumpeting their respective efforts and hailing the end of an era in earmark abuse, some lawmakers warned that, without close oversight, lobbyists and contractors would find new ways to get around the restrictions.

    In particular, lawmakers said they were wary about commercial companies piggybacking on nonprofit projects, or remaking themselves into nonprofits.

    Indeed, Mr. Flake, the Arizona Republican, predicted that the rules in the House might tighten even more.

    “Democrats will have to go further, once people understand that you’ll have for-profits masquerading as nonprofits,” he said in an interview.

    As a way of guarding against that, the new restrictions by House Democrats include the auditing of 5 percent of all nonprofit earmarks. But some lawmakers and lobbyists closely involved in the earmarking process predicted that Congressional appropriating committees could still find ways to provide money for pet projects at home — for instance, by directing the Pentagon to add the project money to its own budget.

    Lawmakers who support earmarks “are still going to move money around on the committees,” said Mr. Herson of American Defense International. “It just won’t be as transparent.”
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
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    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  17. #17
    This seems like something that will be forgotten in a year's time.

    I just don't trust members of Congress to not try and start wiggling in earmarks at some point when in an election crunch back at home.

  18. #18
    That's a good point. A lot of this is probably, get your face in an article with a quote: "I too want to ban earmarks! Me! Please spell my name correctly". And if this thing crashes and burns, they can in a campaign say: "Look, know it failed! But I'm a good guy! I said so myself".

    But there's always a bit of hope for reduction of earmarks.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  19. #19
    Do-nothing Democrats!

    C'mon McCain fanboys. You can do better at rationalizing your rhetoric!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    This is the kind of partisan one-upsmanship I can get behind. Next, the Dems will have to ban earmarks for everything, forever.

    A related question, though: Are earmarks inherently bad, or is it just the way that they're used? Could there be a ruleset that would gain benefits from earmarks without the abuses we get now? I'm honestly a bit ignorant on the subject.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    A related question, though: Are earmarks inherently bad, or is it just the way that they're used? Could there be a ruleset that would gain benefits from earmarks without the abuses we get now? I'm honestly a bit ignorant on the subject.
    That's kinda what I was trying to ask.
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  22. #22
    You seemed to be making the argument that they were needed, and at first I thought you were right, but if they're not earmarked don't these things still get bought, just by whatever agency or whatever the money goes to? Are earmarks just preempting that decision by the actual stakeholders to make sure money gets sent to whatever agency the politician likes?

  23. #23
    What's to stop vote-based nonprofits (like ACORN) from subverting our democracy, then?

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    You seemed to be making the argument that they were needed, and at first I thought you were right, but if they're not earmarked don't these things still get bought, just by whatever agency or whatever the money goes to? Are earmarks just preempting that decision by the actual stakeholders to make sure money gets sent to whatever agency the politician likes?
    I meant to try and draw out a discussion of what they might be useful or helpful for. Everyone starts a discussion these days about earmarks already knowing they are corruption and pork incarnate. Such knowings always make me suspicious.

    As far as your questions, I don't know. The only advantages I can think of, unrelated to what amounts to buying votes, would be doing an end run around the beauracracy or the rest of congress, which means less time and money spent, though at the cost of lost oversight and expert administration.

    Quote Originally Posted by agamemnus View Post
    What's to stop vote-based nonprofits (like ACORN) from subverting our democracy, then?
    Who's democracy?
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    I meant to try and draw out a discussion of what they might be useful or helpful for. Everyone starts a discussion these days about earmarks already knowing they are corruption and pork incarnate. Such knowings always make me suspicious.

    As far as your questions, I don't know. The only advantages I can think of, unrelated to what amounts to buying votes, would be doing an end run around the beauracracy or the rest of congress, which means less time and money spent, though at the cost of lost oversight and expert administration.
    I actually did intend to come in here making that position, but I really couldn't come up with anything that really needed earmarks. Also, you already posted something similar so I had to take the opposite position, because I'm a contrarian bastard.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Also, you already posted something similar so I had to take the opposite position, because I'm a contrarian bastard.
    You do realize it's ok and often very helpful to have more than one person asking the same questions, especially in a case like this where most people are in zombie lockstep? A little momentum could spur some freer thinking.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  27. #27
    Probably, but contrarianNess > utility.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Probably, but contrarianNess > utility.
    But that's not even you. You're just channeling Nessus. And a little utility might help some of the, uh, difficulties some believe the discussion around here has been having.
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    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  29. #29
    I don't see why any earmarks are necessary. Anything done with earmarked money can be done with the same money just not earmarked. For-profit companies can be the best and most competitive to expend your money on - but why shouldn't they face competition then?

    In this modern 21st century we should move to a "Google democracy". Put all non-secret governmental spending online in a database that can be mined and researched. Any pork/waste can be identified by groups/journalists/bloggers and rather than lobbying spending up it can be lobbied publicly down instead. Or to better causes. Accounts need to be done, receipts need to be submitted, why not put them online?

    More free information will fix the problem more than more bureaucracy or hoops. Maybe "Linux democracy" would be a better term.

  30. #30
    Well, the issue is that earmarks are when congress directs money to specific programs or projects, instead of lump sums to federal agencies controlled by the president. There is a certain balance-of-power I can appreciate with the idea that congress can specifically direct funds to certain important projects. The President shouldn't have exclusive power over how money is spent.

    But in practice it's usually just a handout spree and really just part of the problem. After all, allegedly earmarks only cost about $20 billion a year.

    I think the deeper problem is the idea that members of Congress can basically micromanage budgets around its own ideological prerogatives, which in turn means members of Congress start horse trading on budget issues and ignore bigger issues like the US' massive entitlement spending gap.

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