What made you go WTF today?

[GGT]

Then make everyone clean up after themselves and rotate through the people who will sweep up afterwards.

Students are already expected to help "clean up". It's not as if kids leave their trays on lunch tables, or throw trash on the cafeteria floor and walk away. And it's not like they leave all the balls, matts, and gym equipment laying around when the bell rings. Students are expected to keep their desks organized and tidy, clean up after art projects, and keep classrooms clean. Especially in Elementary grades. Some teachers use a rotating schedule based on tasks, some use the "everybody clean-up now" method. That's very different from the humiliation Lewk is espousing.

Out of curiosity, when's the last time you were even in a public school or classroom?

[Ominous Gamer]

Are you really trying to equate sweeping up the lunchroom after lunch with slavery? Is doing homework slavery? What about pushups during gym class? I mean, that's almost exactly like the horrors of slavery.

You're forcing labor that benefits the owner by not having to pay for what would be a wage earning task, doing manual work that provides no reward or benefit to ones who were forced to work. The definition of slavery includes forced labor.

[Aimless]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...ef=mostpopular

Oh Georgia <3

[Lewkowski]

It won't achieve anything. Not to mention that this also means that you're now paying teachers to sweep the floors - or do you think that pupils can do the sweeping unsupervised?

Which means in turn that not only did you not save any money (as you're paying teachers to do that), you're actively putting people out of a job, namely those low-skilled jobs anyone could do. Thought about that?

Why would you need it to be supervised? Just check it when they are done. And anything that gets rid of unnecessary jobs is GOOD.

[Aimless]

I honestly don't have strong feelings about this one way or the other, but I don't believe that students will suddenly break down if the expectation was that they do more around the school to help out. Is it a surefire way to instill a strong work ethic? I doubt it. Would it hurt? I somehow also doubt it.

Ten bucks says it'll lead to class-based bullying and resentment

Are you really trying to equate sweeping up the lunchroom after lunch with slavery? Is doing homework slavery? What about pushups during gym class? I mean, that's almost exactly like the horrors of slavery.

*shrugs* Homework and PE go toward your education and your grades.

[Aimless]

Because self-esteem is the be all end all.

Well, for starters, a good strong sense of self-esteem is probably very advantageous when it comes to lifetime happiness, earnings and productivity. More to the point, the tradeoff isn't worth it. You dream small and think short-term, so I don't expect you to understand this

[Aimless]

Why would you need it to be supervised? Just check it when they are done. And anything that gets rid of unnecessary jobs is GOOD.

If we killed all children we could get rid of all teachers and pediatricians you in? It would be GOOD

[Loki]

And we can then sell their bodies for food instead of giving out food stamps! Everybody wins.

[Khendraja'aro]

Why would you need it to be supervised? Just check it when they are done. And anything that gets rid of unnecessary jobs is GOOD.

You have never worked with children apparently.

[Loki]

I also like the implication that if people can be forced to do some job for free, that becomes an unnecessary job. If we conscript people to be bankers, would that make this an unnecessary job?

[Enoch the Red]

Ten bucks says it'll lead to class-based bullying and resentment

I'm saying make everyone clean up after themselves and do basic janitorial work, not just the poor kids.

*shrugs* Homework and PE go toward your education and your grades.

And putting in a little elbow grease now and again goes towards making the person better rounded and not afraid of doing actual work.

You're forcing labor that benefits the owner by not having to pay for what would be a wage earning task, doing manual work that provides no reward or benefit to ones who were forced to work. The definition of slavery includes forced labor.

Jesus, by that definition anyone who has worked for their parents when they were kids is a slave.

[Khendraja'aro]

Yes, thank you, Enoch, you just stumbled upon the reason why codes of law tend to be huge.

[Flixy]

While the make-poor-kids work thing is obviously retarded, I'm not all against some sweeping, I had to sweep floors when I was in detention, I'm fine with that.

Also, the reasoning is that ' there's no such thing as a free lunch'.. No kid pays his own lunch, parents do. And it's not the kid's fault his parents are poor. So essentially you're instilling the message 'there is a free lunch, unless you're from a poor background'.

[Ominous Gamer]

extra labor via punishment isn't all that bad. its the idea that the students, all the students, should be taking time out of already short school day to play janitor. Theres a huge different between cleaning up after ones self/family, and hundreds of other students.

[Lewkowski]

I also like the implication that if people can be forced to do some job for free, that becomes an unnecessary job. If we conscript people to be bankers, would that make this an unnecessary job?

You seem to have some huge hate for making kids do a little hard work. Why?

[GGT]

You need to make up your mind, Lewk. First you say "sweeping up" is easy work, no big deal, and instills a work ethic. Then you say it's really a punishment, even humiliating, and kids with good grades should be exempt. Now you're saying it's hard work, and an unnecessary chore/job altogether.

[Loki]

You seem to have some huge hate for making kids do a little hard work. Why?

Because that's not the purpose of school.

I seem to recall you saying that it's up to parents to raise their kids, not schools. If parents want to get their kids to work, that's their prerogative. Why would you want to delegate that responsibility to schools?

[GGT]

Because he hates poor people, and wants schools to "teach" poor kids there's no such thing as a free lunch?

[Lewkowski]

Because that's not the purpose of school.

I seem to recall you saying that it's up to parents to raise their kids, not schools. If parents want to get their kids to work, that's their prerogative. Why would you want to delegate that responsibility to schools?

Schools should prepare a work force and provide the basics. A good work ethic is important and often lacking in today's generation.

[GGT]

In other words, you can't really defend your position...it just feels good to say today's students are slackers. What's next WTFLewk -- walking 5 miles to school, uphill, without shoes?

[Veldan Rath]

Schools should prepare a work force and provide the basics. A good work ethic is important and often lacking in today's generation.

Schools should teach how to think, not what to think, after the basics are instilled. A good work ethic is hard to communicate at school, except to help create good habits in schoolwork. This is really the realm of the family, where the kids see it first hand. Which DOES suck if the family is in distress.

[GGT]

And families in distress shouldn't be seen as moral failures.

[Veldan Rath]

How about we qualify that as not all families in distress be seen as moral failures.

I've got three examples living with me where the parents were abject failures.

[Loki]

-40 here (including wind chill). The fun part is that it's -40 in both celcius and farenheit.

[wiggin]

+57 F here. You chose to move to a frozen hellscape, not me!

[Loki]

Excuse to stay in.

[GGT]

Yeah, even "normal" winter weather has a way of conducing "stay-in" human behavior, at least in 4 season climates and snow states. We're not that far removed from our cave-dwelling ancestors just yet.

But WTF....climate science deniers are using this winter to say global warming is a hoax.

[Flixy]

Yeah, even "normal" winter weather has a way of conducing "stay-in" human behavior, at least in 4 season climates and snow states. We're not that far removed from our cave-dwelling ancestors just yet.

But WTF....climate science deniers are using this winter to say global warming is a hoax.

There is of course that little word 'global' isn't Australia suffering from a heat wave? We've had warmest January days in about a century, here. So aside from using current weather reports as climatology data, they don't even manage to look across any borders..

[Khendraja'aro]

There is of course that little word 'global' isn't Australia suffering from a heat wave? We've had warmest January days in about a century, here. So aside from using current weather reports as climatology data, they don't even manage to look across any borders..

Yeah, I'm currently asking myself why I bothered to change my tires to winter tires - the temperature has yet to drop below 4 °C over here.

[Ominous Gamer]

give it a few days. Florida is going from heaters to ACs in less than 48 hours. High tomorrow of 82F for around here.