Well that brings a new level of transparency to votingI'm guessing vote confidentiality isn't a big thing there, over here a type of voting computers was banned because it was theoretically possible to determine what someone voted.
Well that brings a new level of transparency to voting
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
It always amuses me when countries like Russia feel the need to fake the votes even when they would clearly win them.
Hope is the denial of reality
And here come the sanctions.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ficials-crimeaThe US and the European Union have retaliated over the Crimea referendum by targeting sanctions against Russians and Ukrainians.
European foreign ministers imposed EU-wide sanctions on Monday against 21 Russian and Ukrainian officials linked to unrest in Crimea. Washington followed up an hour later with a list of its own, targeting seven top Russian government officials and politicians and four Crimea-based separatist leaders accused of undermining the "democratic processes and institutions in Ukraine".
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
The next round will entail writing a nasty Op-Ed in a Russian newspaper.
Hope is the denial of reality
They have Op-Eds in Russian newspapers?
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
I guess they'll have to buy a newspaper in Russia first. Adds to the cost of the message!
On a serious note, the Russian stock market went up 5% today. That tells you everything you need to know about the efficacy of the sanctions.
Last edited by Loki; 03-17-2014 at 04:09 PM.
Hope is the denial of reality
Well, all of 21 Russians will have to undergo the indignity of having to get around visa rules being applied to them. Probably they'll just buy a Bulgarian passport.Originally Posted by Loki
Congratulations America
There's no need to do anything else. I'm sure Putin will be satisfied once he has his lebensraum.
BTW, basically a gift for Hazir:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...britain-russia
Actually, I don't know what to make of this. On the one hand I feel this just shows what you get if you try to guard your sovereignty in the EU with a dangerous disregard for the fact that Europe is on the doorstep of Russia. On the other hand, this is the state we're in so could I really blame them for not wanting to risk 25% of their economic basis for a piece of land they don't feel all that strong about?
Congratulations America
If they don't feel so strong about it, they shouldn't have signed the Budapest Memorandum.
Hope is the denial of reality
You know as well as I do that the purpose of that was not to safeguard Ukraine, but to get rid of yet another state with a nuclear stockpile. Once that was achieved Ukraine got about as important as is shown right now. Still think that nuclear weapons don't count in the balance of power?
Congratulations America
So, whose up for occupying Karelia?
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26627236 Next?
That depends on whether the UK and US want to maintain their credibility when convincing other states to give up their nuclear programs. See Iran and North Korea.
Hope is the denial of reality
I have to agree with Loki here. If this really was a bluff by the UK and US, they just got called and it will hardly work ever again.
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
So, let's weigh this. On one side 'credibility' on the other side 'not another war' (USA) and 'no massive recession' (UK). Tough choice? I think not. If containing Russia was ever going to happen then significantly different choices should have been made over the last 20 years. As we speak the situation is we see a US that's sick and tired of war, and a EU that has neither the will nor the means to stand up to Russia.
I presume we can expect another stern message to Russia now that the Crimea turns out to be Russian after all. Maybe 10 more people will be added to the restricted list.
Congratulations America
A Ukranian officer was killed just now; still not a war gentlemen?
Congratulations America
So what's next now that the Anschluss Crimea is complete?
I would think that all of Ukraine eastern of the Dnjepr river, and possibly Odessa and surrounding area will soon also turn out to be ancient parts of the motherland. And nobody will do anything against it that will hurt the City of London or Daimler interests.
Congratulations America
Alaska has always been an integral part of Russia. It was a historical mistake to sell it to the USA.
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
If you choose prosperity over maintaining international order, eventually you'll get neither prosperity nor order.
Hope is the denial of reality
Well, the entire Caucasus and half of Ukraine were part of "Russia" about as long as the Crimea, so...
You actually believe the Ukrainians won't fight over a third of their territory? I can assure you that if Russia attempts a serious land grab (I don't mean a few villages), there will be real war, even if the Ukrainians know they won't win the initial fighting.
If I were the Ukrainians, I'd completely cut off access to Transnistria. Then see what Russia does.
Hope is the denial of reality
Probably. Maybe you should send an angry tweet to Mr Cameron and Mrs Merkel.
Congratulations America
You have of course also looked at a map with the percentage of people in that area who are ethnic Russians and like me you know that the trick the Russians are going to play out is not an invasion of a peaceful Ukraine, but simply stoke the fire under local pro-Russian nationalists untill the eastern Ukraine is ready for secession. Not a single Russian soldier will cross the border untill the area has declared itself independent of Kiev.
This game will continue untill we stop calling this by other words than what it really is.
Congratulations America
In terms of wanting to join Russia, the area is about 50-50. The Russians can stoke tensions (which I'm sure they'll do), but they're not going to get their Crimea scenario. The Ukrainian military and police has control there. The only way that area joins Russia (and the only way any kind of referendum will be allowed to take place there) is if Russia sends in tens of thousand of troops to "save" its ethnic kin.
Hope is the denial of reality
I don't see much proof of Ukrainian police or army having ontrol over the east. We'll see soon enough I suppose.
Congratulations America
They're regularly going in between rival protesters. The idea that there's a total collapse of authority in the east is a Russian myth.
Hope is the denial of reality
That makes sense. Putin certainly never agreed to the sale, so there's no reason he should be bound by it.
In all seriousness, I don't see why Putin should stop here. After all, we're only willing to go so far in terms of sanctions. He sees that pretty clearly now. Once we reach that limit, why not go after which ever other goodies he wants? I guess the question is what else he can reasonably expect to get without paying too high of a cost. Taking eastern Ukraine would entail quite a high risk. Maybe annex the other "semi-states"? Start lashing out at the Baltics (through provocations, not necessarily troops)?
Hope is the denial of reality
Now that Crimea has been annexed by/for Putin's Russia....doesn't that mean a majority of Ukrainians can now 'exercise' their democratic alliances to Europe and the West? I get the impression that Crimean voters skewed the election of pro-Russia Yanukovych in the first place, because of demographics in important urban/port cities, and the structures of their political and voting processes that weren't necessarily "democratic" to begin with.
Isn't there a half-glass-full angle here?
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