Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 84

Thread: Well, Rolling Stone Shit the Bed

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch the Red View Post
    Just so we are clear, you believe that if a person cries rape they should be thrown in jail for the rest of their lives because of the damage that would do to the lives of the people they accused, but you see no problem with someone killing another person who was not actively posing a threat to them because it was conceivable they could have? Using your logic I would think that if a woman even suspected a man was thinking about raping her she would be within her rights to not only cry rape, but kill him.
    Eh? Theft is a capital offense in my ideal world. So I absolutely don't think there is a comparison to shooting an INTRUDER instead of making absolutely sure he was going to commit an ADDITIONAL crime while he has INVADED your property and making false accusations. That being said the standard of beyond reasonable doubt would apply to the supposed false acquisition as well. I'm just saying is that I never hear about criminal charges being filed on people who obviously lied about being raped.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Eh? Theft is a capital offense in my ideal world. So I absolutely don't think there is a comparison to shooting an INTRUDER instead of making absolutely sure he was going to commit an ADDITIONAL crime while he has INVADED your property and making false accusations. That being said the standard of beyond reasonable doubt would apply to the supposed false acquisition as well. I'm just saying is that I never hear about criminal charges being filed on people who obviously lied about being raped.
    If someone walks into a garage to retrieve a ball that rolled in there, they can be put to death because they are an INTRUDER? If the standard you are using is that someone is potentially capable of committing a crime while on your property, why not extend that to people who claim they were raped, or could have been raped as well?

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Eh? Theft is a capital offense in my ideal world. So I absolutely don't think there is a comparison to shooting an INTRUDER instead of making absolutely sure he was going to commit an ADDITIONAL crime while he has INVADED your property and making false accusations.
    So you're okay with people killing anyone they perceive as sexual assailants, since that's the ultimate definition of INTRUSION, INVASION, or THEFT?

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch the Red View Post
    If someone walks into a garage to retrieve a ball that rolled in there, they can be put to death because they are an INTRUDER? If the standard you are using is that someone is potentially capable of committing a crime while on your property, why not extend that to people who claim they were raped, or could have been raped as well?
    Except that wasn't what happened and you know it. No ball rolled into the garage. The thief was in there to take stuff, everyone pretending it was something else or giving "what if it was..." nonsense is just deflecting the story. And now your drawing an even WORSE comparison in this thread.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Except that wasn't what happened and you know it. No ball rolled into the garage. The thief was in there to take stuff, everyone pretending it was something else or giving "what if it was..." nonsense is just deflecting the story. And now your drawing an even WORSE comparison in this thread.
    So what I am understanding you to say is there may be situations where someone trespasses on your property where it would not be acceptable to murder them, is that right? It was not too long ago that I had someone approach me as I was working in my garage. I didn't know them, and I didn't particularly want them in my garage. Would I have been within my rights to kill them?

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Except that wasn't what happened and you know it. No ball rolled into the garage. The thief was in there to take stuff, everyone pretending it was something else or giving "what if it was..." nonsense is just deflecting the story. And now your drawing an even WORSE comparison in this thread.
    Last I checked, no one's been charged with theft. But someone was charged and convicted of murder. It seems you're on the wrong side of the law here.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  7. #37
    If you perceived them as a threat, you might be "justified" in killing them. The problem is that perception doesn't always reflect reality. That's counter-intuitive....which demands these things be adjudicated in courts of law. It's an abrogation, and context, that makes any system just, fair, and safe.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch the Red View Post
    So what I am understanding you to say is there may be situations where someone trespasses on your property where it would not be acceptable to murder them, is that right? It was not too long ago that I had someone approach me as I was working in my garage. I didn't know them, and I didn't particularly want them in my garage. Would I have been within my rights to kill them?
    Not the same situation and you know it.

    Look I'm not sure why you are continuing to argue about this. I think thieves deserve to be shot. A thief was shot. I'm on the side of the homeowner. You don't think thieves should be shot and so are on the side of the dead thief.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Last I checked, no one's been charged with theft. But someone was charged and convicted of murder. It seems you're on the wrong side of the law here.
    And OJ was shown to be not guilty of killing his ex. An appeal to the current law really only applies if we are discussing what the current law is. We aren't - we are discussing the stupidity of Rolling Stone and this tangent was spawned on why we don't send false accusers to jail.

    So in an effort to redirect that... if it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that someone lied about being raped - what do YOU think their sentence should be?

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Not the same situation and you know it.

    Look I'm not sure why you are continuing to argue about this. I think thieves deserve to be shot. A thief was shot. I'm on the side of the homeowner. You don't think thieves should be shot and so are on the side of the dead thief.
    There was no theft! The only evidence was premeditation to kill by the homeowner
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Not the same situation and you know it.

    Look I'm not sure why you are continuing to argue about this. I think thieves deserve to be shot. A thief was shot. I'm on the side of the homeowner. You don't think thieves should be shot and so are on the side of the dead thief.
    You said yourself that the ruling set a dangerous precedent. Do you not see how shooting anyone who stepped into your garage, regardless of their intention, could also be a dangerous precedent?

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    And OJ was shown to be not guilty of killing his ex. An appeal to the current law really only applies if we are discussing what the current law is. We aren't - we are discussing the stupidity of Rolling Stone and this tangent was spawned on why we don't send false accusers to jail.

    So in an effort to redirect that... if it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that someone lied about being raped - what do YOU think their sentence should be?
    As usual, you've mixed too many things together. "Proven beyond a reasonable doubt" is a legal term used in criminal trials. The fourth estate (press, media) is rarely involved in felony trials. We don't usually prosecute magazine writers or news reporter as false accusers, let alone send them to jail, even if their reporting turns out to be substandard.

    I think you're caught up in defining rape, or sexual assault, in general terms -- meaning there's no victim, and no perpetrator, just perceptions and statements vying for legal verification.

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    As usual, you've mixed too many things together. "Proven beyond a reasonable doubt" is a legal term used in criminal trials. The fourth estate (press, media) is rarely involved in felony trials. We don't usually prosecute magazine writers or news reporter as false accusers, let alone send them to jail, even if their reporting turns out to be substandard.

    I think you're caught up in defining rape, or sexual assault, in general terms -- meaning there's no victim, and no perpetrator, just perceptions and statements vying for legal verification.
    I'm not talking about people who pass along information irresponsibility. I'm talking about people who deliberately lie in an attempt to cause legal problems up to and including prison. If someone lies about seeing someone murder someone should they be prosecuted? If yes than why the hell would false rape accusations be any different?

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    There was no theft! The only evidence was premeditation to kill by the homeowner
    Yeah I guess he just accidentally wandered into his garage for shits and giggles. Anyone who doesn't think this thug was trying to steal is blind, deaf and dumb.

  15. #45
    "Witnessing" murder vs rape are very different things.

  16. #46
    Some follow-up.... Interesting (astonishing? ridiculous?) that Rolling Stone took no apparent disciplinary action against the idiots who did the bed shitting, which appears to be simply negligent, sloppy journalism from the ground up to the top.

    'Collective Fault' At 'Rolling Stone' Led To Rape Story, Columbia Says

    Columbia University says a retracted Rolling Stone article about the rape of a young woman at the University of Virginia "was the collective fault of the [magazine's] reporters, the editor ... and the fact-checking department."


    "We don't believe in this case Jackie was to blame," Sheila Coronel, academic dean at the Columbia Journalism School, said at a news conference today.


    Jackie is the name the magazine used to identify the young woman who said she was gang-raped during a fraternity party at the University of Virginia in 2012. The article prompted outrage and spurred the university to suspend all of the school's fraternities; those bans have since been lifted.


    Steve Coll, dean of the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, called the report released by the school on Sunday a "piece of journalism about a failure of journalism."


    Coll and Coronel wrote the report, which was commissioned by Rolling Stone after major discrepancies were found in its reporting of the story, which was published Nov. 19, 2014.


    The report, as NPR's David Folkenflik noted on Morning Edition, found "repeated, fundamental errors in the magazine's reporting and editing process."


    As David noted:


    "The story became a viral phenomenon, propelling a national debate over how well colleges handle allegations of sexual assault at a time of close federal scrutiny. But some of the methods employed by the article's author, Sabrina Rubin Erdely, came under challenge by such journalists as Richard Bradley and Hanna Rosin. In early December, The Washington Post published the first of several articles poking holes in Erdely's article."
    On Sunday night, Rolling Stone's managing editor, Will Dana, retracted the story, apologized to readers, to the fraternity named in the reporting and to the University of Virginia. Erdely, in a separate statement, said the Columbia report was a "brutal and humbling experience."


    David adds: "No journalists associated with Rolling Stone have been suspended or punished at the magazine for their role in the debacle. Dana said all have been involved in strong journalism — and he does not want this story to define them. Dana said he intends for Erdely, a freelancer, to continue to write for Rolling Stone."
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/..._campaign=news
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  17. #47
    And the main element there is that Rolling Stone doesn't think it made any kind of a systematic mistake that needs fixing.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  18. #48
    "The story became a viral phenomenon, propelling a national debate over how well colleges handle allegations of sexual assault at a time of close federal scrutiny. But some of the methods employed by the article's author, Sabrina Rubin Erdely, came under challenge by such journalists as Richard Bradley and Hanna Rosin."

    IE - who cares about the truth it was a good narrative!

  19. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    12,462
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Their problem is generally limited to extremely one-sided analysis and lying by omission. I imagine both are caused by wanting to make huge, sensationalist claims without doing the work to verify them.
    It's not just them, it's the whole discourse in the USA about rape (on campus). I remember reading a piece in a German newspaper that put the numbers in the right perspective their conclusion was that most people talking or writing about it base their opinions on heavily inflated figures.
    Congratulations America

  20. #50
    Has this been posted yet?

    BeforeRolling Stone ran with Jackie’s story they bought Billy’s.

    “Jackie” is the first name of the freshman at the University of Virginia who claimed she was gang-raped at a frat house by seven men.

    “Billy Doe” is the pseudonym for a former altar boy from Philadelphia who claimed he was raped at St. Jerome Parish by two priests and a Catholic schoolteacher.

    Sabrina Rubin Erdely, a contributing editor for Rolling Stone, wrote both stories.

    Will Dana, the managing editor of Rolling Stone, has already apologized for the November 19 story about a gang rape at the frat house by saying the magazine’s trust in Jackie was “misplaced.” Dana also said the factual discrepancies in Jackie’s story were “deeply unsettling.”

    But the factual discrepancies in Jackie’s story are dwarfed by the factual discrepancies in Billy’s story that was published in the September 15, 2011 issue of Rolling Stone. I know, because I’m a former reporter for the Los Angeles Times and Philadelphia Inquirer who’s been documenting Billy’s astonishing lack of credibility for the past two years on bigtrial.net.

    The holes in Jackie’s story began with the frat house not having any event scheduled the night of the alleged attack. Then, Jackie claimed the alleged ringleader of the attack was a frat member who worked as a lifeguard at the campus pool. But when the fraternity checked the employee roster at the campus pool, no member of the frat worked there. In addition, another alleged attacker accused by Jackie turned out to belong to a different frat.

    Billy Doe can rack up three factual discrepancies on his way to the bathroom.

    Erdely’s problems with the Billy Doe story began when she accepted as gospel, as did other reporters, a 2011 Philadelphia grand jury report that claimed Billy was raped as a 10-year-old altar boy by two priests, who passed him around like a piñata, and then a year later, by his sixth-grade homeroom teacher at his parish school.

    The Philadelphia district attorney, Seth Williams, also ran with Billy’s story without doing any investigating.

    Rolling Stone can run a correction. But what do you do about sending four men to jail for a sexual crime spree that may have only taken place in the imagination of a junkie criminal scheming to get out of jail? That’s the problem we have here in Philadelphia.

    Erdely’s Billy Doe story was published under the headline, “The Catholic Church’s Secret Sex-Crime Files.”

    It may not have been Erdely’s fault that the grand jury report was subsequently found by this reporter to be intellectually dishonest and contain more than 20 factual errors. But Erdely did write a one-sided story that Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League, ripped at the time as yellow journalism for “the factual errors, the stereotypes, the grand omissions and the melodramatic language.”

    Erdely had an undisclosed conflict of interest, first noticed by reporter Paul Farhi of The Washington Post, as the wife of an assistant district attorney, Peter Erdely, in the Philadelphia D.A.’s office. She only interviewed people who ripped the church, such as a couple of former prosecutors, two critical former priests, a sex abuse victim and a former seminarian kicked out for disciplinary reasons.

    But Billy Doe had an arrest record; six busts as an adult for theft and drugs, including one bust with intent to distribute 56 bags of heroin. He’d been in and out of 23 different drug rehabs. And every time he told his story the details kept changing.

    What Erdely didn’t know was that, before the district attorney ran with Billy’s claims in the grand jury report, Billy’s story had already drastically changed, as revealed in formerly confidential police records and grand jury transcripts.

    When he first reported his claim of abuse on January 30, 2009, Billy told two social workers for the Archdiocese of Philadelphia that he had allegedly been:


    • Anally raped for five hours inside the church sacristy after an early-morning Mass by Father Charles Engelhardt, who afterward threatened to kill Billy if he told anybody about it.
    • Punched in the head and knocked unconscious inside the church by Father Edward Avery; when the fifth grader woke up, he was allegedly naked and tied up with altar sashes. According to Billy, Avery proceeded to anally rape Billy so brutally he bled for a week.
    • Punched in the face by his sixth-grade school teacher, Bernard Shero, and strangled with a seat belt before the teacher allegedly raped him in the backseat of a car.


    But when Billy subsequently told his story to a grand jury and the police, all the allegations about anal rape, the death threat, being punched in the head and knocked unconscious, tied up naked with altar sashes, being punched in the face and strangled with a seat belt, all of those details were dropped.

    Instead, Billy told a whole new story about allegedly being forced to perform a strip tease, and engage in oral sex and mutual masturbation with the same trio of assailants. This was the story reported uncritically by the grand jury and printed in Rolling Stone.

    Two years after the district attorney ran with Billy’s story in the January 21, 2011 grand jury report, the district attorney’s detectives finally got around to investigating Billy. And what did they discover? That all the witnesses they talked to, including Billy’s mother, brother and former teachers, contradicted Billy.

    Here’s what the grand jury report and Rolling Stone alleged, and what the D.A.’s detectives discovered:


    • Billy claimed Engelhardt attacked him in the sacristy after an early morning Mass. His mother, however, kept meticulous calendars chronicling the daily events of Billy and his older brother—both altar boys at the same parish—including the Masses they served. Mom’s calendars didn’t list one early morning Mass for Billy during his entire fifth-grade year when the attack allegedly occurred.
    • Billy claimed Engelhardt accosted him when he was an altar boy putting away wine after Mass. But his older brother, an altar boy and a sexton, said it was the job of the sexton to put away the wine after Mass.
    • Billy claimed Father Avery raped him when he was a fifth-grader putting way the bells after a bell choir concert at the church. Three of Billy’s former teachers, however, told detectives that only eighth-grade boys were allowed to become members of the bell choir maintenance crew for a simple reason: Only eighth grade boys were strong enough to lift 30-pound tables and carry bell cases that weighed 30 pounds. As a fifth-grader, Billy only weighed 63 pounds. The teachers’ story was backed up by the school yearbooks.
    • Billy claimed the two priests who raped him used the code word “sessions” to describe their alleged sex parties with Billy. The two priests told their lawyers they never used that word. Detectives found a more credible explanation for the origin of sessions when they talked to one of Billy’s former drug counselors. He said that sessions was the word counselors used to describe one-on-one and group therapy sessions with drug addicts like Billy, who was certainly familiar with the lingo.
    • The grand jury report and Rolling Stone claimed that Billy kept two books under his bed about sex abuse because he was trying to come to terms with the horrific attacks he’d been subjected to. But Billy told detectives he kept the books under his bed because they had hardcovers, which he used to crush Xanax capsules he was snorting. When the detectives examined the book covers they found numerous indentations.


    There’s more. When she wrote her story, Erdely quoted from the church’s “secret archive files” that documented sexual abuse in the Archdiocese of Philadelphia over four decades. The files, pried loose with search warrants, documented the crimes of 169 priests, who raped and abused hundreds of children.

    But those files contradict Billy’s story. Not once in 45,000 pages of documents is there an instance of one abuser priest trusting another abuser priest enough to pass along a victim, as alleged by Billy. Also, in the secret archive files, predator priests spend years patiently grooming victims by building up trusting relationships with children, as well as their parents and other family members. In Billy’s stories, however, three predators with no relationship with Billy or his family strike without warning.

    Often in the secret archive files, predator priests target broken families. Billy’s father, however, was a sergeant in the Philadelphia police department, his mother a registered nurse. Billy also had a live-in grandmother that was a second mother to him. And a brother two years older who was a student and altar boy at the same school.

    The family lived only a mile away from the church, but according to testimony, drove their sons to and from Mass when they served as altar boys.

    What are the odds that in such a family a boy 10 and 11 years old is brutally raped by three different men over the period of a year, and nobody—not his mother, father or brother, or any teacher or priest or nun at the school—sees or hears a thing? Not even some bloody underwear.

    There are also many problems with the investigation done by the D.A.’s office. It began on January 28, 2010, when a detective bailed Billy out of jail and drove him to the D.A.’s office, where his parents were allowed to sit in on the interview. Billy was 21 at the time, and normal procedures in the city police and district attorney’s office call for interviewing an adult complainant and his parents separately.

    District Attorney Seth Williams has never explained why Billy’s parents were allowed to sit in on that initial interview. He has not explained any of the factual discrepancies in Billy’s many stories, and why the D.A. would proceed with what Williams described as a “historic” prosecution of the church with a star witness so lacking in credibility.

    Instead, the D.A.’s only response to me for the past two years has been to stonewall. And other than my blog, nobody in the media has bothered to ask Williams about Billy.

    Four men—three priests and a school teacher went to jail because of Billy’s allegations, and one of those men, Engelhardt, died in prison on November 15, a couple weeks after his lawyers were in appeals court, arguing that he deserved a new trial. The priest, according to his superior, Father James J. Greenfield, spent his last hours handcuffed to a hospital bed guarded by two armed corrections officers.

    Rolling Stone can run a correction. What can Seth Williams say to the family of Father Engelhardt?
    Source

  21. #51
    I really hope that the frat wins their law suit and the punitive damages put this tabloid out of business. I doubt it will happen but it might be one of the few good things that come out of our retarded legal system.

  22. #52
    The chances of them winning are basically nil. And unfortunately, most readers of Rolling Stone aren't buying the magazine for its well-sourced articles. Pretty sure that at this point Playboy has more honest and reliable stories.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  23. #53
    One more:
    One of the painful things the New Republic was forced to undertake when it first came to light that reporter Stephen Glass had fabricated certain details of his stories was to go over all his stories with a fine toothed comb to determine exactly how systemic the problem had been with Glass’s reporting. After all, a reporter who faked details in one or two stories might well have done so in others. To TNR’s credit, they promptly performed an exhaustive, line-by-line review of each of Glass’s stories over the years and laid bare the gruesome results for the world to see, exposing that the infractions for which Glass was eventually caught were only the tip of the iceberg, and that fabulist reporting by Glass was the rule, not the exception.

    By way of contrast, in the wake of a damning CJR report on the reporting practices of Sabrina Rubin Erdely and the editorial and fact checking practices of Rolling Stone, Rolling Stone has shown absolutely no inclination to engage in a similar soul searching over whether Ms. Erdely might have engaged in similarly shoddy reporting in the past, and whether such shoddy reporting (if it exists) might have slipped through their fact checking and editorial system. Ms. Erdely by all appearances has not been professionally disciplined at all for her blunders and the Rolling Stone brass is acting as though this is an isolated incident in which they were blameless victims of an exceptionally clever con artist.

    It turns out, Erdely may have been guilty of the same journalistic errors she committed in reporting the UVA rape story on at least one other rape story that garnered national attention at the time. The story in question was published in 2013 and was titled “The Rape of Petty Officer Blumer."

    Erdely’s reporting of the Blumer story is eerily similar to her reporting of the UVA story. In each case, Erdely uses a central figure who has a similar tale to tell: she was a victim of a horrific rape, she reported the rape to authorities, and her concerns were ignored and/or used against her. The narrative in each case is used to advance the theory that the institution in question (college administrators in the UVA case, military command in the Blumer case) is indifferent to the problem of systemic sexual assault occurring right under their noses. In both cases, the stories read suspiciously as though Ms. Erdely arrived at her conclusion before writing her story, and simply set out to find the first person who would constitute a credible vehicle for the narrative she wanted to create, without regard to the factual accuracy of her story. Recall that during the initial investigation of the UVA story it was uncovered that Erdely had sent emails indicating that she was looking for a story that fit a particular fact pattern – it would be no surprise to discover that similar emails existed in this case.

    RedState has now spoken with multiple members of Navy command who were either personally involved in the investigation of Ms. Blumer’s allegations or who had firsthand knowledge of the facts of this case. For obvious reasons, their names have been withheld to protect their identities. However, it seems clear that, if Ms. Erdely’s story concerning Petty Officer Blumer were subjected to the same scrutiny as the UVA story, it might well come unraveled just as quickly.

    The key fact from these conversations is this: Everyone I spoke to in connection with this investigation was crystal clear that at no point did Sabrina Erdely or Rolling Stone ever contact them whatsoever, even to ask for background information. This is exactly the same lapse in journalistic standards that doomed the UVA story and ultimately led to its retraction. The fact that it occurred in this story is indication of a systemic problem with Rolling Stone and Sabrina Erdely’s reporting, not of a single lapse in judgment.

    According to USN Personnel I talked to, Ms. Erdely’s description of how Ms. Blumer came to be convinced that she had been sexually assaulted is flatly inaccurate. Ms. Erdely describes the event as follows:


    The first thing Petty Officer 2nd Class Rebecca Blumer realized upon waking was that she was freezing cold and naked. The second thing was that her body ached all over. Blumer groggily scanned the unfamiliar room for clues. She saw a concrete floor splotched with vomit, a metal door and a window onto a hallway, where a woman in an orange jumpsuit was sweeping.

    “Where am I?” Blumer called hoarsely.

    “Richmond County jail,” the inmate told her.

    Blumer shivered. “I need to see a doctor,” she whispered.

    The woman nodded. “You’ve been screaming that all night.”
    * * *
    Blumer sat back in shock. She was a normally cheerful 23-year-old Navy intelligence analyst stationed at Fort Gordon, a vast Army base of 15,000 military employees in Augusta, Georgia. Blumer, whose job was to sift through top-secret data, was part of a thousand-*member naval unit. The night before, February 12th, 2010, she and some friends had gone to a bar not far from base for a couple of beers. Three Army guys – one with light hair, the other two dark-haired – had sent Blumer a shot of Jägermeister, a drink she didn’t care much for but had downed anyway. The light-haired man had rounded the bar to talk to her. The last thing *Blumer remembered was being overwhelmed by a dizzy, sluggish feeling, her limbs and head too heavy to lift, the *noises in the bar rising up and caving in on her. Only later would Blumer find out the rest: that at 1:40 a.m., police had noticed her driving with her headlights off. That she’d barely been able to stand upright during her field sobriety test, but when placed under arrest she’d gone berserk, trying to break free of the police car and screaming incoherently. In jail, she’d yelled for a doctor and fought with the cops so *wildly that she’d been hosed down in an effort to quiet her. Now, crouching in her cell with a swollen jaw; bruises smudging her wrists, ankles and neck; her abdomen sore inside; and her lower back and buttocks afire with what felt like rug burn, it dawned on *Blumer. She’d been roofied and raped.

    According to members of Naval command who personally participated in the investigation, it is true that Ms. Blumer was arrested for DUI early on the morning of Valentine’s Day and was taken to the Richmond County Jail. Per usual protocol for members of the military, someone from Ms. Blumer’s Naval Command unit came to retrieve her from the County Jail (in such cases, the Navy will usually either post bail or the judge in question will simply release the defendant back into the custody of the her commanding officers, often times through the Shore Patrol liason, given that they present a low flight risk in such a case). The defendant is then taken immediately (or as soon as is practical) to their commanding officers for examination and for the possible application of non-judicial punishment.

    Per the police report, Ms. Blumer did not at any time notify the police that she believed she had been sexually assaulted. The member of Naval command who came to retrieve her from jail was notified that she had indeed behaved in a bizarre fashion the night before, including that she had attempted to remove her clothes on numerous occasions. When questioned by Naval command, Ms. Blumer initially stated that she had a period of several hours that were missing from her memory and was unable to form a coherent narrative about the events of the previous night. The sources I spoke with were clear that it was members of the Naval command who first suggested to Ms. Blumer that she might have been sexually assaulted, and that they did so by way of asking, “Do you think that you might have been sexually assaulted last night?”

    When Ms. Blumer responded that it’s possible that she might have, the USN personnel who retrieved her from the County Jail immediately reported this allegation to her commanding officers, and per protocol, further administrative action on potential non-judicial punishment for her DUI was halted while this investigation was completed, a process which took a year and a half (for reasons set forth below). The matter was then turned over to the Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS).

    To the extent that Ms. Erdely’s article implies that the Navy took no action to investigate the alleged sexual assault, the sources who spoke to RedState indicated that the article was categorically false. Ms. Blumer indicated to investigators that the reason she could not remember an assault actually occurring was that she suspected that she had been given a drugged drink, and accordingly a tox screen was taken which showed no traces of rohypnol or flunitrazepam, the most common date rape drugs.

    Ms. Erdely attempts to paper over this somewhat large hole in Ms. Blumer’s story by noting that the tox screen was taken 18 hours after the alleged ingestion of the substance in question, and uncritically passing along Ms. Blumer’s belief that these substances only appear in urine for 12 hours:


    Concerned with privacy, she opted to discuss the issue not with a base social worker or victim’s advocate, but with a therapist at an off-base crisis center, who reminded Blumer that depending on the drug, the dose and her metabolism, a date-rape drug could have left her system in less than 12 hours – and Blumer’s urine had been tested 18 hours after that Jägermeister shot.

    Meanwhile, several minutes on Google will inform you that in actuality, Rohypnol and flunitrazepam leave metabolites in your system that can actually be detected by a basic immunoassay test for 5 to 21 days.

    According to sources who spoke with RedState, other facts in the article were either overstated or presented in misleading fashion. For instance:


    Meanwhile, a DNA test had recovered skin cells on Blumer’s underwear that weren’t hers, proof that something had happened, although no one knew what.

    The DNA in question was “contact” DNA, which is to say, skin cell as opposed to fluid DNA, and it was found in the upper rear portion of Ms. Blumer’s underwear. This is indeed proof that “something had happened,” but the something in question might well have been someone else picking up her underwear, someone having their hand on the back of her pants, or any other number of things that have nothing at all to do with a drug-assisted rape. It could also have been consistent with DNA being left on her person by any of the number of people who were involved in arresting and subduing Ms. Blumer, who by all accounts and admissions was behaving physically erratically throughout the night. It is also, for that matter, consistent with the fact that Ms. Blumer woke up naked due to her insistence on repeatedly removing her clothing – presumably, someone picked up her clothes and removed them from the cell at some point, and the back of the underwear is as good a place to grab as any.

    Ultimately, the investigation found literally no physical evidence that a sexual assault had occurred at all. The “anal fissure” that is referenced in the Rolling Stone story was determined by investigators to be more consistent with a strenuous bowel movement than forcible sodomy.

    However, investigators were still determined to conduct a thorough investigation. They spent countless hours interviewing bartenders at the bars where Petty Officer Blumer had reported drinking on February 13th. Based on Ms. Blumer’s descriptions of men she had encountered at the bar and the bartender’s descriptions of men they had seen her with, they interviewed numerous witnesses attempting to determine what, if anything had happened. Ms. Blumer’s own recollection of the night was hazy but she had a vague recollection of a possible first name of one of the men she talked with. Investigators found a man who had been at the bar who had the same middle name as the first name Ms. Blumer gave them.

    Complicating the investigation, it turned out that this man was on active duty and had in the interim been deployed to Iraq. The NCIS took the extraordinary step of locating him in Iraq, pulling him off his duties, and conducting a thorough interview with him. He stated to investigators that he had seen Ms. Blumer at the bar and talked with her, but that they left the bar separately and he never saw her again afterwards.

    Having no evidence – physical, testimonial, or otherwise – to tie this individual to Ms. Blumer, or to prove that a sexual assault had even occurred, after a year and a half of extensive searching NCIS reported to Ms. Blumer’s Naval command that their investigation was concluded and that they could not substantiate her claim of a sexual assault. At this time, her non-judicial punishment for her DUI was carried out essentially as described in the Erdely article.

    Other allegations in the Erdely article are either untrue or misleading on their face. First, Ms. Erdely ominously reports that:


    “Whether you get a rape kit is up to you,” the female JAG prosecutor cautiously told Blumer, who struggled to make sense of what was happening: The military she’d trusted to care for her wasn’t interested in caring for her at all.

    This bizarre phrasing seems to imply that the JAG prosecutor in question was discouraging Blumer from having a rape kit done, when in fact she was merely stating a fact: hospitals cannot perform a rape examination on you without your consent. Other portions of the story are similarly reported in a deliberately distorted way, such as the fact that Blumer was placed on “pine cone duty” for several months after reporting the allegation, which seems to imply that Blumer was punished for reporting a rape by being removed from her job and placed in menial tasks.

    In truth, as Erdely admits, Blumer was handling top-secret materials for the Navy, which required a continued and valid security clearance. Security clearances at that level can be revoked for any number of reasons, including personal bankruptcy use of narcotic drugs (even without criminal conviction,) and so on. Ms. Blumer’s was revoked because she reported a substantial gap in her memory during which she committed a criminal act. Until the investigation could be completed as to what exactly had occurred, her security clearance could not be restored.

    Ultimately, no one (including, by her own admission, Rebecca Blumer), knows what happened on that fateful night. I am not here to suggest that a sexual assault did or did not occur. That is not the point of this story.

    The point of this story is this: the evidence is clear all over the face of this story that Erdely – as enabled by her editors at Rolling Stone – has a serial habit of reporting rapes without conducting any more fact checking than she did of the UVA story. It is facially obvious that she did not talk to the accused rapist because there wasn’t one. There is no evidence that she talked with anyone who was present at any of the bars where Ms. Blumer drank on the night before her DUI to attempt to verify even her story about meeting the three guys. And, again: the sources who spoke to RedState were clear that Ms. Erdely made no effort to contact any member of the Naval command who was involved with the investigation to get their side of the story with respect to what manner of investigation was conducted into Ms. Blumer’s allegations or what that investigation revealed.

    After an exhaustive investigation that spanned a year and a half (which Erdely and Rolling Stone ignored and/or did no research into whatsoever), no one was able to produce any evidence that a sexual assault had occurred, physical or otherwise. The alleged victim herself had no recollection of it happening, did not report it to the police who arrested her, and had a ready motive for latching on to the narrative, which is that it would have stopped or possibly prevented punishment at the hands of her military superiors and possibly prevented her from permanently losing the top secret clearance necessary to keep her job.

    And yet, it appears that Rolling Stone brushed all this aside in the service of a story that fit a narrative that their reporter had going into the story. And it appears that Ms. Erdely’s failure to fact check her alleged victim’s story by contacting the “other side” for comment or explanation was every bit as egregious in this case as it was in the UVA case. And that does not even mention that back in December, Newsweek raised serious questions about yet another alleged rape story reported by Erdely.

    Which raises the question: how many other stories out there has Ms. Erdely written that wouldn’t pass journalistic muster any more than her now-withdrawn UVA story? And what will Rolling Stone do to uncover the answer to that question?
    Basically, that's three rape stories she's made up so far, but the CJR report is "punishment enough". Their refusal to take any sort of corrective action for this means that they might as well start reporting on batboy - they don't have the credibility to do anything more.

  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    It's not just them, it's the whole discourse in the USA about rape (on campus). I remember reading a piece in a German newspaper that put the numbers in the right perspective their conclusion was that most people talking or writing about it base their opinions on heavily inflated figures.
    This is probably true. There's a 1 in 4 figure floating around the nets for campus rapes, which is inflated in the usual telephone game manner from a 18% (or 1 in 5, which is 20%, or nearly a quarter, which is 1 in 4) reported rate on sexual assault, but that comes from a study with a number of serious problems, including a strong self-selection bias and a weak definition of sexual assault. So, basically, there's no way to know how close the commonly used statistics are to reality.

  25. #55
    I bet Rolling Stone's subscription numbers actually go up after all of these controversies.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  26. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I bet Rolling Stone's subscription numbers actually go up after all of these controversies.
    Possibly but I don't think so.

  27. #57
    I'm just saying, these stories target far more bad guys than good ones oh wait wrong thread
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  28. #58
    HAH!

    It does present an interesting split in his perspective, doesn't it. Or would if his perspective amounted to anything but straight class-prejudice.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  29. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    HAH!

    It does present an interesting split in his perspective, doesn't it. Or would if his perspective amounted to anything but straight class-prejudice.
    Class prejudice? Like I'm prejudiced against the criminal class? Because if so - guilty as charged.

  30. #60
    Another look at the case:

    From the Duke lacrosse team, the Columbia mattress girl and the University of Virginia, the left has not been able to produce one actual rape on a college campus. It's beginning to look as if the rape of the Sabine women never happened, either. Someone's going to have to go back and investigate.


    The big finale to the latest college rape fable, Rolling Stone's whimsical "A Rape on Campus," about a fraternity gang rape at the University of Virginia that never happened, is the Columbia Journalism Review's "investigation" of the story, released Sunday night. It's more of a house of mirrors than a finale, inasmuch as CJR's report is so preposterous that it demands its own investigation.


    The CJR treats "reporting" as if it is some sort of learned craft, requiring years of study, as opposed to basic common sense. For example, if someone has an incredible story that he's dying for you to publicize, but loses interest every time you try to confirm any of the facts, a normal person would say: Oh, that's because it's probably a lie.


    Without even knowing that the rape accuser, "Jackie," had refused to let Rolling Stone check the most basic elements of her narrative, every human being who read Sabrina Rubin Erdely's piece knew it was nonsense by around the second paragraph. It was like a Lifetime TV version of a fraternity rape.


    The Washington Post knew. Slate magazine knew. Much-maligned journalist Richard Bradley knew.


    But the CJR diligently ticks off Rolling Stone's failures to follow the "essential practices of reporting," including "editing, editorial supervision and fact-checking." Rolling Stone's Reporter of the Year, Erdely told CJR, "I wish somebody had pushed me harder." Her managing editor, Will Dana, admitted that he should have "pull(ed) the strings a little harder ... question(ed) things a little more deeply."



    Yes, maybe the editors were just not pushing hard enough.


    It's as if a doctor attacked his patient with an ax, and the Columbia Medical Review responded with a forensic report concluding that the procedure failed to follow clinical protocols on hand hygiene, scrubs and restricted areas, while the doctor gallantly admitted that mistakes were made.


    How about not allowing reporters to go off on politically driven crusades against liberal hate-objects, like fraternities, the military and athletes? How about not basing entire stories on the uncorroborated dream sequences of fantasists?


    The false rape accuser, Jackie, had been trying to get the attention of a guy she liked by inventing a fake boyfriend. His name was "Haven Monahan." Wouldn't a person in his right mind drop the story right there?


    Jackie had developed a whole online presence for her imaginary boyfriend, using the photo of some guy from her high school who had never spoken to her, and creating a fictitious text message account for her nonexistent boyfriend, replete with dialogue lifted directly from the TV show "Dawson's Creek."


    For these among other reasons, the entire world has known the truth about the Rolling Stone rape since about eight minutes after the story was published. The CJR's report was only necessary for The New York Times to find out the truth.


    The report lamented that Rolling Stone's "journalistic failure" would encourage "the idea that many women invent rape allegations." To dispel this danger, the CJR quickly cited a handout from a Violence Against Women symposium alleging only 2 to 8 percent of rape claims are false. In fact, all serious studies of false rape claims put that figure at 27 percent to 40 percent.


    If the CJR followed its own recommendations of "fact-checking," they'd know that.


    Erdely's editor, Sean Woods, bemoaned the "disservice" Rolling Stone's article had done to Jackie -- the woman who made up the story about being raped.


    You know who else Rolling Stone's story kind of did a disservice to? I think, personally -- as long as we're ranking victims -- a very close second to the woman who lied about being raped, as well as all the unnamed college rape victims who might have their claims taken less seriously in the future, are THE INNOCENT FRATERNITY MEMBERS WHO WERE FALSELY ACCUSED OF A VIOLENT GANG RAPE.


    The UVA fake rape is even worse than the Duke lacrosse team fake rape. The accused fraternity hadn't even courted danger by hiring a stripper. They were going about their lives, minding their own business, when, out of the blue, Rolling Stone, the president of their university, and a fiendish coed decided to accuse them of a monstrous crime.


    If UVA's much vaunted "honor code" means anything, it ought to mean the permanent expulsion of a girl who was willing to ruin the lives of men she had never met by accusing them of gang-rape -- just to get the attention of a guy she liked.


    To the contrary, even after this unprovoked attack on blameless UVA students, the associate dean of students, Nicole Eramo, said that college rape accusations required "balancing respect for the wishes of survivors while also providing for the safety of our communities."


    Again, isn't someone missing from all that delicate "balancing"? I'm thinking of: the men falsely accused of rape. Colleges might want to consider adopting a concept that's been around since the second century: "innocent until proved guilty."



    http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2015-04-08.html

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •