I just realized that Loki's link has a shortened version of the video. I'd only seen a longer version before. Here's a version with more context:Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
I just realized that Loki's link has a shortened version of the video. I'd only seen a longer version before. Here's a version with more context:
Right. And despite us not knowing very much, the guy has been kicked off his football team and charged with battery, while the woman is playing the victim.
By the way, from Wraith's video, it looks like the woman cut in line first.
Hope is the denial of reality
keyword being us. I'm assuming if the police found reason for charges they have more testimony than we do with a silent video.
And I was just about to say he seems to putting a good bit of pressure on her with his elbow and arm he locks under the counter after she steps in. A stance like that I'd say he made the decision to not budge before her hand went up.By the way, from Wraith's video, it looks like the woman cut in line first.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
You realize that police have shot black men for less than this, right?
Looks like the woman provoked the confrontation, but that punch was wildly out of proportion.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
From what I've read, the police decision is based entirely on the video and the fact that the woman still has a black eye.
What's a proper reaction to being kneed in the groin and punched in the face? Laugh it off?
Hope is the denial of reality
no doubt, but this happened in a football town. the only thing between this bar and student housing is a mcdonalds.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
That punch? Yeah.What's a proper reaction to being kneed in the groin and punched in the face? Laugh it off?
Not sure where you're getting being kneed in the groin from.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
It would be suspicious to have charges without talking to either party.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
It looks like shortly after he grabs her arm she raises her knee. It's hard to tell though.
I think both parties should suffer some form of censure for their actions, the woman for a) provoking the confrontation in the first place, assuming we're not missing something because the video is silent b) threatening violence by raising her fist at the guy and c) actually initiating the violence and the guy for his "a drunk women drunkenly took a swing at me and grazed my cheek, so I'll punch her full force in the face" line of thinking.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Doesn't mean she was going for the groin, though.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
This video is about RPGs, but I feel it may be instructional for any of our members (i.e. Lewkowski, but apparently Loki as well) who feel that having a wrong done to you by someone entitles you to respond with whatever level of force you feel like
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
You seem to be under the illusion that retaliation must cause the same amount of damage as the initial attack. This is the same bullshit Israel gets attacked for. If Hamas uses a some third-rate rocket, any retaliation with anything more advanced is somehow evil. Think of a situation where two armed thugs attack a martial artist and get their asses kicked as a result. They do no damage to the martial artist; he breaks their arms. Has the martial artist done anything wrong (legally or morally)?
What is generally not allowed is to escalate using a higher degree of violence. If someone attacks you with their hands, you can't retaliate with a knife. If someone attacks you with brass knuckles, it's generally not ok to shoot them (at least morally; it might be legally). There's absolutely nothing wrong with retaliating against someone weaker than you using the same degree of violence that they used. The woman punched him in the face (or at least tried). Punching her in the face is no way disproportionate.
Several news reports said that she kicked him in the groin by the way. The guy is also saying that she used some racial epithets against him, but there's no real way of confirming that.
Hope is the denial of reality
This is just the dumbest shit. You're completely ignoring level of threat posed by the assailant (none at all in the video, extremely high in your hypothetical with two armed thugs) in gauging the appropriate level of response and you're treating all punches to the face as the same even though the level of force behind one could be anywhere between 'doesn't even leave a mark' to 'causes permanent damage'.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
If only that had worked for Clayton Whittemore.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Finland is such a silly place
http://www.dailydot.com/crime/lizard...lius-kivimaki/
A key Lizard Squad member had been convicted of 50,700 charges related to computer crimes, according to Finnish newspaper Kaleva.
Julius “zeekill” Kivimaki, 17, was sentenced to a two-year suspended sentence and was “ordered to fight against cybercrime,” according to Finnish media. He will not go to prison.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
It's not your job to hold your punch just because someone is incompetent in throwing theirs. The woman was being violent. That makes her a threat. You're under no responsibility to be as incompetent in violence as she is.
Hope is the denial of reality
State prosecutor was just on TV talking about that elbow action I mentioned earlier, saying that they don't consider her the aggressor and that she won't be charged or arrested.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Yeah, she's white and female.
Hope is the denial of reality
If she's incompetent at violence then she is by definition not a threat, unless you are, yourself, incompetent at violence.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
I think you are armchair quarterbacking this incident pretty aggressively. Just because someone didn't land a hit initially doesn't mean they are incapable of landing hits. We are talking about a series of events that unfolded very quickly. I'm not saying he behaved perfectly, but I also don't see it as being outside the realm of reason.
Ditto. Who knows how a violent person is going to follow up their initial punches. What if they have a knife or a gun? What if they're with someone else who's violent? You have a full right to incapacitate someone who assaults you, no matter how incompetently.
Hope is the denial of reality
I'm not talking about rights, I was trying to say that this was partly done to appease the public and as a reaction to more severe crimes committed by other black football players.
What frustrates me most about this, I think, is that almost all reporters have described the situation as her raising her hand in self defense,without knowing anything about what was said between those involved or to the police. That kinda stuff makes my skin crawl. You may as well have said he grabbed her arm in self defense, which was obviously stupid but is as likely to be accurate.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
She's at least half as strong as he is, slower, and drunk. He can grab he arms, he can grab her, he can shove her over he can walk away, he's got plenty of things he can do to protect himself that don't involve smashing her in the face.
In fact, walking away is exactly what he does do - only he does so right after he punches her. So yeah, going to be hard for him to make the self-defence case there.
That said, and as I said before, I hope the woman also faces some kind of punishment - she, as far as we know, initiated the confrontation, and she resorted to violence first apparently in the expectation that the taboo on male-on-female violence would allow her to hit a man without retaliation.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
I find it hard to believe that you'd use the same argument if the roles were reversed.
... uh, yes, because of the differences he brought up, it'd be weird if he did
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Given the speed with which she resorted to aggression, I don't think we can say there wouldn't be any risk in turning around and walking away. Should he have waited for her to smash her glass into his face before trying to defend himself? How much physical damage does he need to take before he can act? If a woman approached a bar and was confronted in the same manner by a male patron, (raising his fist, throwing a punch, etc...) do you really think she would have been in the wrong had she tried to defend herself?... uh, yes, because of the differences he brought up, it'd be weird if he did
Last edited by Enoch the Red; 07-09-2015 at 09:36 PM.
You could apply the same crazy what-if logic to the choice of responding to her aggression with your own violence - what if she was carrying a knife and takes a punch in the face as provocation to use it, what if she had an especially large and violent boyfriend with her, which was why she felt able to pick fights with random dudes etc etc. And any way, he *did* turn his back and walk away, and he didn't hit her so hard that any risk hypothetical she might have posed (if she was completely batshit insane rather than just drunk and ornery) before he hit her didn't apply after he hit her.
The physical differences between a man and a woman will almost always make this an irrelevant comparison. If a woman wants to stop a man doing something she doesn't want him to with force, she almost always has to use as much force as she's physically able to (unless she's trained or very strong, obv), a man in the same position has a bunch of other options.If a woman approached a bar and was confronted in the same manner by a male patron, (raising his fist, throwing a punch, etc...) do you really think she would have been in the wrong had she tried to defend herself?
On the other hand, if it was (*googles*) Ronda Rousey from MMA vs oh, I don't know, Howard from Big Bang Theory and it went down the same way I'd say exactly the same thing - Howard was being a dick, but Ronda Rousey wildly over escalated.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Look, what I'm saying is that your response to that particular post of Steely's doesn't make sense. Obviously he should have shot her dead at the first sign of aggression, but that's not the point. If the roles were reversed, he would still be twice as strong as she is etc. Therefore, if one's position is that relative strength and the possession of a functioning brain should influence one's actions in a situation such as this one, rather than the facts of who started it etc, then it doesn't really matter if the roles are reversed.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote