About the Confederate Flag....

[GGT]

South Carolina has officially removed the Confederate Flag from flying on state grounds, and designated it a museum "relic".

Mississippi has the next hurdle, since the Confederate Flag is part of its State flag. That could make it really difficult to fly all 50 State flags in public squares....

[RandBlade]

They could always re-run the 2001 referendum and try and replace the Confederate part of the flag, or go back to their original flag.

[Hazir]

Isn't it time the Confederates accept that they really lost that war?

[agamemnus]

Did they?

I think they, or their ideas, actually won the war.

Debt slaves.

[earthJoker]

Winner of the hearts, yey!




How cute.

[Loki]

Odds that the guy in Louisiana had an untreated mental illness? Though at 58 years of age, he's not a typical lone wolf.

[littlelolligagged]

Unrequited love? It does feel like that there must be some sort of mental illness to go shoot up the movie theater, though.

I was watching MSNBC for awhile, quit when they switched back to the repeat of Maddow.

When is the discussion that maybe it ought to be a little more difficult to legally own firearms than it currently is? Once again, I expect that will be ignored. If there is mental illness involved, I'd hope for that de-stigmatizing and making it affordable to get treatment enters the conversation, too, but it is way too easy to obtain guns.

[Being]

Odds that the guy in Louisiana had an untreated mental illness? Though at 58 years of age, he's not a typical lone wolf.

Why'd you post it here?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/...O?ocid=U218DHP

Is this the new senseless USA killings thread? Could become the largest TWF D&D thread in record time.

[Being]

Unrequited love? It does feel like that there must be some sort of mental illness to go shoot up the movie theater, though.

I was watching MSNBC for awhile, quit when they switched back to the repeat of Maddow.

When is the discussion that maybe it ought to be a little more difficult to legally own firearms than it currently is? Once again, I expect that will be ignored. If there is mental illness involved, I'd hope for that de-stigmatizing and making it affordable to get treatment enters the conversation, too, but it is way too easy to obtain guns.

I might look at investing my retirement money in companies that manufacture walk-thru metal detectors. Movie theaters are sure to begin installing them soon. I don't doubt that a federal law requiring them in theaters will be done before any movement toward sane gun control laws takes place.

[Loki]

Because we had a discussion about shootings in the US earlier in the thread.

Lolli, that would definitely help, but if someone is motivated enough and paranoid enough, they'll find a way to get a gun. Mental health treatment needs to be radically improved in this country.

[Being]

Because we had a discussion about shootings in the US earlier in the thread.

Lolli, that would definitely help, but if someone is motivated enough and paranoid enough, they'll find a way to get a gun. Mental health treatment needs to be radically improved in this country.

Okay, sorry. But do you think the steep ramp in the level of production of guns has less to do with gun deaths than individual mental castaways here and there?

http://www.nranews.com/home/document...administration

[Loki]

Most of those guns are going to people who already had guns.

[RandBlade]

Because we had a discussion about shootings in the US earlier in the thread.

Lolli, that would definitely help, but if someone is motivated enough and paranoid enough, they'll find a way to get a gun. Mental health treatment needs to be radically improved in this country.

Except the disparate rates of murder rampage rates across the developed world indicate a correlation between the easy availability of guns and the rates of these murders happening that I'd suggest has a causative link.

There is nothing unique in the American culture that causes such abnormal behaviour, but what is unique is the easy availability to put your hands on weapons designed to kill large numbers of people. Everyone has a bad day sometimes and the mentally ill will have bad days too. While some may be motivated enough to try and get a gun if its difficult* I'd suggest for large numbers they're just not that motivated. What's unique in America is how easy it is to go postal without putting any effort in.

* Of course trying to do this if its illegal could also get you caught and arrested prior to the act.

[Loki]

The US is the only developed country where the mentally ill are left to fend for themselves and one of the few where there's no real mechanism to keep the violent mentally ill population institutionalized for a considerable period of time. So on the one hand, we do nothing to help these people manage their symptoms. And on the other, once some of them become homicidal (because their symptoms are left unaddressed for years at a time), we either throw them in jail and then let them out without treatment or institutionalize them for a week and then let them out.

Incidentally, mentally ill doesn't mean stupid. Like I said, if one is paranoid or deluded enough, and dedicated enough, one can get a gun.

[Being]

The US is the only developed country where the mentally ill are left to fend for themselves and one of the few where there's no real mechanism to keep the violent mentally ill population institutionalized for a considerable period of time. So on the one hand, we do nothing to help these people manage their symptoms. And on the other, once some of them become homicidal (because their symptoms are left unaddressed for years at a time), we either throw them in jail and then let them out without treatment or institutionalize them for a week and then let them out.

Incidentally, mentally ill doesn't mean stupid. Like I said, if one is paranoid or deluded enough, and dedicated enough, one can get a gun.

I'm betting a much higher percentage of gun violence is perpetrated by gangbangers than mental castaways.

[Flixy]

Incidentally, mentally ill doesn't mean stupid. Like I said, if one is paranoid or deluded enough, and dedicated enough, one can get a gun.

Fair enough, but if you make it harder it's also more likely to catch them before. I mean, terrorists can also always get a bomb if they really want to, but the harder it is to get the supplies, the more likely it is they get caught. For example, Breivik spent some time trying to get an illegal gun but failed, which cost time and meant he tried to do something illegal worth a chance to get caught. After which he got a legal gun, but if that had not been available, who knows what would have happened. And how many would be terrorists have been caught trying to obtain explosives or weapons?

Of course restricting gun access only works if the system actually works - we had a spree shooting here a while back with legal guns he should never have gotten a permit for (history of mental illness and suicidal tendencies), but if the system doesn't work and the people who issue the license don't know about this, it's fairly useless.

And of course or also doesn't help if there are CIA stay-behind caches of weapons and explosives hidden that everybody lost track of and are plundered by criminals, which was a bit embarrassing when they turned themselves in while carrying those weapons.

[Loki]

There are already laws on the books preventing the sale of guns to mentally ill people. They could be better enforced, but they're there.

I imagine it's much harder to get an illegal gun in Norway than it is in the US.

[Flixy]

There are already laws on the books preventing the sale of guns to mentally ill people. They could be better enforced, but they're there.

I imagine it's much harder to get an illegal gun in Norway than it is in the US.

Sure but if you can sell guns at shows without background checks (correct new if I'm wrong), how do you know the customer isn't mentally ill? Which was kinda my point, it's not supposed to happen here either, but it happened anyway.

I imagine so, though he went to the Czech Republic, where it's presumably easier than in Norway. And to what extent is the illegal market smaller because fewer people have guns and legal supply is more restricted?

[Loki]

How many of the mass shootings were carried out with guns bought at gun shows?

Constitutionality aside, there's no chance in hell the US would pass laws significantly restricting the number of people who could obtain guns.

[Flixy]

I don't know. How many guns used in mass shootings were legal?

And yeah, I know it's not going to change anytime soon, you guys love your guns.

[Loki]

According to court documents, obtained by the Associated Press, he "exhibited extreme erratic behavior and has made ominous as well as disturbing statements."

The filing said Houser had “a history of mental health issues, i.e., manic depression and/or bi-polar disorder.”

His wife also removed all weapons from their home because she feared his “volatile mental state,” according to the paperwork.

The protective order was at least temporarily granted. That same year, the family also successfully petitioned a court to have him involuntarily committed for a short period.

Surprising. Mentally ill. Violent. Committed for only a short period.

[RandBlade]

Do you think all manics are or should be committed for long periods?

[Loki]

Severely mentally ill people who have demonstrated themselves to be a threat to others should be kept institutionalized until their condition is stabilized with medicine and treatment and until they show an effort to take their meds. It is in no one's interest for these people to be walking the streets, themselves included.

[Being]

Severely mentally ill people who have demonstrated themselves to be a threat to others should be kept institutionalized until their condition is stabilized with medicine and treatment and until they show an effort to take their meds. It is in no one's interest for these people to be walking the streets, themselves included.

Would certainly take care of the homeless issue.

[Being]

I might look at investing my retirement money in companies that manufacture walk-thru metal detectors. Movie theaters are sure to begin installing them soon. I don't doubt that a federal law requiring them in theaters will be done before any movement toward sane gun control laws takes place.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/its...h?ocid=U218DHP

Yep. That's where the money is.

[GGT]

Because we had a discussion about shootings in the US earlier in the thread.

Yeah, but now this is turning into a mass-shooting/gun control/mental health system thread. They're all good topics worthy of discussion, but don't have much to do with state-sanctioned flag-flying, do they?

[Loki]

Of all the people to be complaining about thread-drift...

[GGT]

I don't mind thread drift . But I also think the shift in the conversation means a new thread might be better. Otherwise, this place would only have a few meta-threads where debates and discussions go, to get lost and die.

[Flixy]

I must say when I saw your post I checked the news whether some guy had shot people while waving the confederate flag.

[Loki]

The guy does actually have neo-Nazi and white supremacist sympathies, but as was the case in S. Carolina, it's stupid to point to those factors as motivating the mass killing.