Windows 10

[Wraith]

It's against the license agreement to use it on more than one computer at a time, but I don't think it'll give you any shit for it.

[RandBlade]

Not very at this point, but that's mostly because I've only played with it for one evening. Ask again a week from now, once I've had time to build up confidence.

Been a bit over three weeks now . How confident would you be at recommending an upgrade on wednesday when it's released?

I'm assuming we'll need to wait til Wednesday evening (ie American time) anyway and even that's assuming the servers are available on release day.

[Wraith]

It's being rolled out in waves, so you may not even be able to upgrade right away. Not everyone's going to get it on July 29th.

I'm more confident now; there seems to be a couple issues with the drivers I have for it, but nothing too huge, and not really Microsoft's fault. I wouldn't be surprised if there were driver updates on release day that fixes them. There are a number of conveniences in it that make it worth the free upgrade. Windows 10 has become completely invisible to me in the past few weeks, which is exactly what I want from an OS. I think I remember that you were one of those who was sour on Windows 8 - you'll probably like 10 more.

[RandBlade]

Thanks. Yes I was very disappointed with 8 and never changed my mind about that. Making everything full screen in eg the Start Menu or searching was a completely retrograde step back to the early 90s IMO and I'm glad that moronic design has been dropped.

[GGT]

The only thing I know about Windows 10 relates to its marketing campaign, and the commercials I've seen -- where babies are used to represent user expectations with simplicity. It's either brilliant, or sad and kinda creepy.

[Khendraja'aro]

So, anyone got the upgrade yet?

[Aimless]

I'm nervous. I don't want to commit to an OS that will force me to accept every single update.

[RandBlade]

Are updates non-optional in Win 10?

[Khendraja'aro]

If you've got an edition above Home you can defer upgrades for a while (a "while" being months). But security updates are non-negotiable. Good thing, too.

http://www.howtogeek.com/223083/what...ndows-10-mean/

[Aimless]

I just want to avoid nasty surprises for which there are no good fixes at the time they occur.

[Khendraja'aro]

It's never a good idea to defer security updates. It's better to have a non-functioning system than a system which sends every keystroke (and thus passwords) to another guy.

[Aimless]

So, let me get this straight. The only updates that will be mandatory on Windows 10 home are security updates?

[Khendraja'aro]

If you've got an edition above Home you can defer upgrades for a while (a "while" being months). But security updates are non-negotiable. Good thing, too.

http://www.howtogeek.com/223083/what...ndows-10-mean/

Am I talking Chinese?

[Aimless]

No, what you're doing is talking exclusively about security updates and about versions above the home edition, while I'm talking about all updates and windows 10 home edition. So I guess you might say you're speaking Khenese.

[Khendraja'aro]

I'm not sure how to make this any clearer.

Again:

Home edition => No choice whatsoever
Editions above => Ability to defer upgrades, security updates mandatory.

I even included a link which goes into all the details. Next time I won't bother.

[Aimless]

I simply did not realise your post was directed toward RB because I'd missed his follow-up question and I therefore experienced psychological discomfort at your reply's lack of relevance to my post.

[Ominous Gamer]

So, anyone got the upgrade yet?

5 machines, reservations set as different times in the past month, none are updating. Even forced my desktop machine to check for updates.

[Khendraja'aro]

You can force the upgrade:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...load/windows10

Download the tool and select "Ugrade this machine now" (or create an upgrade medium, whatever you like).

After you did that, run "cleanmgr", select "Clean System Files" and select "Previous Windows Installation" and "Temporary Installation Files" (or whatever it's called in English) to get rid of some unneeded GB on the disc.

[Hazir]

I installed it this morning. Process was pretty painless. Haven't had time to try things out for real. I had planned to upgrade anyway because I had some problems in the starting up of the old setup. I like the clean look of Edge by the way.

I understand that separate protection isn't really necessary ?

[RandBlade]

So if Microsoft decides to FUBAR the OS in the future like Windows 8 then the customer has no choice what to do with their machine? That is a disgraceful attitude.

Khen as for your arrogant assertion that it is a good-thing that automatic security upgrades are non-negotiable I disagree. For a long time the recommended settings have been that upgrades are done automatically and a customer has had to actively over-ride that to disable automatic updates. You may think security trumps every other concern, that's your choice. I may think stability trumps Microsoft's vision of security, that until now has been my choice.

Windows 8 was such a disaster with such a low-takeup rate as it flopped and customers didn't want it - that the right answer to that mistake is to compel future disasters like that with no choice to even postpone them let alone turn them down altogether?

I think I'll still upgrade, especially my 8 Laptop but may keep 7 for now on my newer PC. Hopefully MS backtracks on this decision but I doubt it.

[Echovirus]

Looks like they changed their minds about the forced update stuff.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyle...orced-updates/

[RandBlade]

What a problematic solution. You can either install automatically without a choice, or you can hide updates altogether. Whatever happened to good old fashioned "show me and let me decide like a sentient adult" or whatever the setting was formally called?

Looks like pre-release a so-called "security" patch has already caused problems: http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke...rity-problems/

Again I put stability over what MS defines as security, that is a sentient choice that is and should be mine. I hope MS backtracks on this nonsense.

[Khendraja'aro]

So if Microsoft decides to FUBAR the OS in the future like Windows 8 then the customer has no choice what to do with their machine? That is a disgraceful attitude.

Khen as for your arrogant assertion that it is a good-thing that automatic security upgrades are non-negotiable I disagree. For a long time the recommended settings have been that upgrades are done automatically and a customer has had to actively over-ride that to disable automatic updates. You may think security trumps every other concern, that's your choice. I may think stability trumps Microsoft's vision of security, that until now has been my choice.

Windows 8 was such a disaster with such a low-takeup rate as it flopped and customers didn't want it - that the right answer to that mistake is to compel future disasters like that with no choice to even postpone them let alone turn them down altogether?

I think I'll still upgrade, especially my 8 Laptop but may keep 7 for now on my newer PC. Hopefully MS backtracks on this decision but I doubt it.

Well, have fun with 0-day exploits then. I've dealt with people like you often enough, so I'm talking from actual experience here.

In fact, we actually banned people like you from our network.

We're talking about "take all my money" exploits here, dimwit.

[Ominous Gamer]

hot damn, this new Edge browser. Gotta give it the Borat seal of approval

[Ominous Gamer]

Then again, the edge browser doesn't seem to play completely smoothly with the quick reply box, gives me the "are you sure you want to leave, edits will be lost" at random times after pushing post.

[Echovirus]

That sounds like the same nonsense Chrome was giving me on Win7 last night. It's not happened today tough, so I'm not sure what may have caused it.

[RandBlade]

Well, have fun with 0-day exploits then. I've dealt with people like you often enough, so I'm talking from actual experience here.

Yes big whoop tell someone who gives a shit.

I've dealt with flawed or incompatible updates breaking software that works often enough, so I'm talking from actual experience here.

In fact, we actually banned people like you from our network.

We're talking about "take all my money" exploits here, dimwit.

Have I requested access to your network? Keep your network and your priorities to yourself, I'd rather keep my own priorities.

[Ominous Gamer]

Laptop didn't blow up so I'm going to update my main rig. Nvidia surround, hacked sound drivers for dolby over optical...should be interesting.

At the very worst I'll have to get new headphones, but $40 for some G35s ain't bad.

[Khendraja'aro]

Rand, then you also don't get to complain when a page you want to use goes down due to a DDOS. Because this attitude of yours is what makes them possible in the first place.

"Herp, I'm so smart, derp!"

In fact, I'd really like to see it when ISPs all over the world took down customers' access when they begin to spew forth crap.

[Aimless]

Sometimes the aspies in IT forget that the main purpose of IT is to make life better for the user and that anything that has a negative impact on usability must be carefully weighed against the expected gain. It'd be funnier if this attitude problem didn't routinely lead to many billions of crowns and thousands of hours wasted, a portion of which comes out of my limited life and energy obviously updates will reduce a user's vulnerability to 0-day exploits, mslware etc. However, when advocating for updates that may also run the risk of rendering the user's computer unusable, thus imposing a cost on the user in the form of lost productivity, lost leisure time, increased anger and maybe even service costs, one would do well to remember that updates will not make your computer invulnerable and that 0-day exploits can be used in the wild before MS catches on and finally that windows isn't the only software on a Windows pc that makes the pc vulnerable.